What is the purpose of the Prime Directive?

[DevilEyes]

The Prime Directive is one of the most problematic aspects of Trek. It also doesn't help that TNG-era Trek onwards mutated the PD into something unrecognizable and monstrous.(See TNG's "Homeward," "Pen Pals," and ENT's "Dear Doctor," for example.) I think it was a product of 1960s Vietnam War-era liberalism on the dangers of cultural imperialism. But TOS was never as rigid about the non-interference aspect, especially if from a utilitarian perspective, they could accomplish more good than harm through interference.

I've never understood "non-interference" as a moral principle in itself. The PD should have been abolished long ago, and the issue of whether intervention is warranted should be on a pragmatic case by case basis.

QFT. Those episodes you mention really made me angry.

The Prime Directive is tricky: it can be used to prevent the Starfleet from becoming the Universe Policeman... but it can also be, as in the cases mentioned above, used as an excuse to do stand by and do nothing, or even refuse help ("Dear Doctor" being the most blatant example). It turns into a nice way of saying "since you are a different and less advanced civilization, we will leave you to your own devices, since we don't really give a fuck about you and whether you all die or not, you stupid savages". How is that any better than imperialism and its White Man's Burden? Two sides of the same coin. It also begs the question, what is Federation Starfleet and its exploration really for, except for Federation's own gain? The Federation gets to find out about different planets and civilizations, and this benefits the Federation, but what do these worlds get out of it? Unless they are already warp capable and advanced enough to be of any use to the Federation. If Federation Starfleet is supposed to have humanitarian and noble goals, then such a ridiculous and strict interpretation of the PD renders it completely useless.

IMO, the PD should be only a guideline that has to be interpreted on a case to case basis.

 

[Anwar]

There's nothing humanitarian or noble about contacting a primitive culture that can barely comprehend alien lifeforms and basically throwing their whole culture into disarray.

 

[Neutral Zone]

The PD is a good idea for the series (any of them), each captain has to find a way around it to succed in their missions. There always appears to be a loop-hole and the captains save the day by using the loop-hole whilst claiming they stayed within the PD.

 

[DevilEyes]

There's nothing humanitarian or noble about contacting a primitive culture that can barely comprehend alien lifeforms and basically throwing their whole culture into disarray.

Hypothetical situation: Race X is in danger of dying out of a terrible disease, or having their planet destroyed by a natural catastrophe.

Option A: You help them, "contaminating" their culture by providing a cure to the disease, or saving them from the catastrophe and (shock! horror!) revealing yourselves to them in the process.

Option B: You do nothing, even though you have the means to help, and leave them all to die, as far as you're concerned.

Geez, I wonder which one is more noble and humanitarian?

 

[Anwar]

And in revealing yourself to deliver said cure you end up causing them to all start worshiping you in devotion, basically creating a religion and massive social/political upheavals that escalate into major conflict on said planet. Not to mention the permanent cultural damage it would do to them. In that case they're better off dead since they're ruined anyways.

Natural disaster, it's natural and simply shows they weren't capable of dealing with mother nature. I don't think you'll find anyone on Earth who'd think it would be nice if aliens saved the dinosaurs from the meteor strike.

You've got to be distant and clinical over these situations and not let yourself be clouded by extreme simplifications like what you're suggesting.

 

[DevilEyes]

And in revealing yourself to deliver said cure you end up causing them to all start worshiping you in devotion, basically creating a religion and massive social/political upheavals that escalate into major conflict on said planet. Not to mention the permanent cultural damage it would do to them. In that case they're better off dead since they're ruined anyways.

Natural disaster, it's natural and simply shows they weren't capable of dealing with mother nature. I don't think you'll find anyone on Earth who'd think it would be nice if aliens saved the dinosaurs from the meteor strike

The hypothetical sentient dinosaurs would think it was nice.

 

[sonak]

Anwar, I would suggest that your point of view seems to suggest a paralysis of decision-making due to the fear that your actions MIGHT lead to bad consequences down the line. "Playing God" is refusing to help people because you believe they are unworthy(because they don't have warp drive or some other such stupid criterion), or because you can't predict what future consequences might be.


Your example is almost a reductio ad absurdum. The aliens in "Dear Doctor" didn't regard the Enterprise crew as gods, and I can't see such a scenario occuring very often.

 

[Anwar]

The aliens in "Dear Doctor" already knew about aliens before the ENT crew got there.

I advocate not interfering with other planets at all until they head out into FTL space because by that point the meeting is inevitable so they might as well make it a good first impression. If they've suffered wars or plagues or natural disasters before that, then it's their obstacles to overcome. Overcoming adversity is something everyone goes through and alien species are no different, otherwise they'll never grow and evolve. The PD is to keep the Federation from becoming a Galactic Nanny State.

And if they're destroyed by those problems that everyone goes through, well it's a pity but it's the natural order. Earth went through horrible stuff and they made it to space, the Vulcans helped but that wasn't until after the flight of the Phoenix.

 

[DevilEyes]

The aliens in "Dear Doctor" already knew about aliens before the ENT crew got there.

I advocate not interfering with other planets at all until they head out into FTL space because by that point the meeting is inevitable so they might as well make it a good first impression. If they've suffered wars or plagues or natural disasters before that, then it's their obstacles to overcome. Overcoming adversity is something everyone goes through and alien species are no different, otherwise they'll never grow and evolve. The PD is to keep the Federation from becoming a Galactic Nanny State.

And if they're destroyed by those problems that everyone goes through, well it's a pity but it's the natural order. Earth went through horrible stuff and they made it to space, the Vulcans helped but that wasn't until after the flight of the Phoenix.

Sounds like you're supporting Social Darvinism.

What's to stop us from applying that motto to our societi(es)? Why not abolish welfare and health care and leave everyone to fend for themselves? Let the weak, sick and disabled perish, rather than let them be dependent on the Nanny State... Entire countries that are not economically viable, or have problems with hunger, disease, consequences of natural disasters or wars? The international organizations and other countries should not offer them any help, financial or otherwise - let them fight for their own survival or die if they're not strong enough!

Am I exaggerating? No, that's exactly where this kind of thinking leads.

 

[The Castellan]

There's nothing humanitarian or noble about contacting a primitive culture that can barely comprehend alien lifeforms and basically throwing their whole culture into disarray.

It's that sorta excuse of NASA's Brookings

It's pretty much "If we find alien life or evidence of alien life...we should not tell the public, because it will destroy them!" Pile of crap I say. If a culture is so arrogent and stupid that it destroys itsels because it can't handle the truth of not being alone....then that culture deserves everything that happens to it.

 

[The Castellan]

Anwar, I would suggest that your point of view seems to suggest a paralysis of decision-making due to the fear that your actions MIGHT lead to bad consequences down the line. "Playing God" is refusing to help people because you believe they are unworthy(because they don't have warp drive or some other such stupid criterion), or because you can't predict what future consequences might be.


Your example is almost a reductio ad absurdum. The aliens in "Dear Doctor" didn't regard the Enterprise crew as gods, and I can't see such a scenario occuring very often.

There's an old sayng, "The medicine might taste bad, but it's the only way the patient will get well." As in if Starfleet 'contaminated' a culture that was savage, religiously fundamental, putting the sick and old to death and so on....and if there's even a chance that first contact can fix things, I say go for it.

Dr. McCoy felt that way often.

And the whole warp drive requirement is such a crock....if Picard did not interfere with the Pheonix and Cochrane, there would BE no starfleet, no federation and humanity would be living like road warriors, fighting over even more petty issues than humans did before.

Besides, with the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Andorians and so on who don't have a PD, the Federation's gonna be left in the dust. Other worlds might join those guys.....and some of them will be taken by force and made into slave worlds.

I liken the whole PD to how many other countries like France, Japan, Chili, etc are releasing UFO cases, many of which still have no 'reasonable' explaination....EXCEPT America....it's continuing to deny anything and be stubborn.

Igorence might be bliss (to SOME people ), but knowledge is power.

 

[Anwar]

Sounds like you're supporting Social Darvinism.

I advocate not babying anyone and letting them endure and grow on their own merits. If they can't, well it's a pity but that's the way the cookie crumbles. They weren't able to survive the crap the natural order threw at them, unlike other civilizations.

What's to stop us from applying that motto to our societi(es)? Why not abolish welfare and health care and leave everyone to fend for themselves?

Our people pay our taxes that fund our operations, and as such do have legal rights to government protection.

Let the weak, sick and disabled perish, rather than let them be dependent on the Nanny State... Entire countries that are not economically viable, or have problems with hunger, disease, consequences of natural disasters or wars?

I do think too much welfare will ultimately cripple a government, if you have to know. If another country makes a formal request for aid, then it's a different story than us just butting into someone elses' problems.

 

[Anwar]

And the whole warp drive requirement is such a crock....if Picard did not interfere with the Pheonix and Cochrane, there would BE no starfleet, no federation and humanity would be living like road warriors, fighting over even more petty issues than humans did before.

They were repairing damage done by prior interference from the Borg.

Besides, with the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Andorians and so on who don't have a PD, the Federation's gonna be left in the dust. Other worlds might join those guys.....and some of them will be taken by force and made into slave worlds.

It has been shown that the Feds will deal with enslaved worlds, but in those cases they were worlds enslaved before the Feds knew about them.

 

[sonak]

i'm in agreement with D.E. about consequences of the point of view Anwar seems to advocate.(sorry if i'm misinterpreting)


"letting mother nature decide" is a frightening perspective. Should nearsighted and farsighted folks not wear glasses because mother nature intended their eyesight to be poor? The world is not a meritocracy, that's why there are government and religious and social policies to at least attempt to promote justice.

The Federation may indeed be limited from a resource or practical standpoint in what kind of intervention they can do. But to be ARBITRARILY limited because of an asinine policy makes no sense.

 

[DevilEyes]

The premise is arrogant and a bit racist, come to think of it. "Oh those poor simpletons won't be able to handle our technology or even the knowledge it exists without their society falling apart." How would you know? That's quite arrogant to presume.
"They'll start worshiping us as gods, and their culture will naturally perish when confronted with ours." How do you know? Maybe they'll just want the medicine or some of the technology they need, but they'll say "thanks, but not thanks" to your customs, fashion, food, or your (anti)religious beliefs.

If they're, say, dying of a disease and you have the cure, withholding it would be simply be criminal. There's no two ways about it. If you offer and they refuse, say, on religious grounds, that's a different matter. But they had a choice. If you withhold it and don't tell them about it, you're not giving them a choice and you're practically a murderer. Same thing if you have the means to avert a natural disaster or save them from it, and you don't.

If you give them medicine so they wouldn't be dying, does that mean that you MUST follow it by trying to assimilate them, convert them or change their culture or their customs? Hell no. (Even if, from their POV, they could have good reasons to be concerned that you will. )

So, let's say, you have the chance to save a lot of people, and the downside is that there might possibly be some accidental "cultural contamination" in the future (since you're Starfleet, and organization that allegedly is not trying to assimilate other cultures, it has to be accidental). I'll take the chance if I'm faced with such an extreme situation where not helping might cause many deaths and the literal destruction of a civilization. Cultural imperialism is bad - but obliteration is far worse. Let's imagine the worst possible cultural imperialism example... say, young people start neglecting their ancient culture while watching Steven Seagal movies and Big Brother instead. Well, you know what? I think there are few things worse in the world than watching Big Brother but being forced to watch BB would still beat being dead. (Not to mention that I wouldn't be forced. It's a choice, and I can choose not to watch it even if it's on TV. ) And if someone told me that it's better for people to be dead than watch BB, I'd tell them they're nuts.

 

[DevilEyes]

Sounds like you're supporting Social Darvinism.

I advocate not babying anyone and letting them endure and grow on their own merits. If they can't, well it's a pity but that's the way the cookie crumbles. They weren't able to survive the crap the natural order threw at them, unlike other civilizations.

So that's a yes.

What's to stop us from applying that motto to our societi(es)? Why not abolish welfare and health care and leave everyone to fend for themselves?

Our people pay our taxes that fund our operations, and as such do have legal rights to government protection.

What about people who can't pay taxes, because they earn nothing? The unemployed, the homeless?

Let the weak, sick and disabled perish, rather than let them be dependent on the Nanny State... Entire countries that are not economically viable, or have problems with hunger, disease, consequences of natural disasters or wars?

I do think too much welfare will ultimately cripple a government, if you have to know. If another country makes a formal request for aid, then it's a different story than us just butting into someone elses' problems.

How do you define 'too much welfare'?

 

[Anwar]

So that's a yes.

Seeing that's how it went for Trek Earth and they managed to work things out, yes. You're free to call me a lunatic or heartless or whatever.

What about people who can't pay taxes, because they earn nothing? The unemployed, the homeless?

That's what unemployment programs are for.

How do you define 'too much welfare'?

When it causes the government to utterly collapse or nearly go bankrupt, wherein it can't help ANYONE. I already went over this with others before, look up "Galactic Nanny State".

 

[Chrisisall]

How do you define 'too much welfare'?

When it causes the government to utterly collapse or nearly go bankrupt, wherein it can't help ANYONE.

WAR. anyone?

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, that too. Too much welfare can divert money away from National defense leaving the State open to attack from external forces.

 

[Sci]

The concept that a preindustrial or prewarp culture would just fall apart from alien contact is itself fairly absurd. Most cultures throughout history in our world experienced periodic contact with cultures that were exotic and far-off to one-another, to the point where both sides considered the other to be a different "race," often from another "world." These cultures were equated with, quite frankly, what we would today call aliens.

And guess what? One culture or another was only devastated by contact with an "alien" culture when the "aliens" engaged in acts of imperialism and sought to dominate them. Europe is a prime example -- it was a primitive, backwater corner of the globe throughout most of the Middle Ages, but contact with the technologically advanced societies of Asia and the Middle East led to a technological and military revolution in Europe -- a revolution that the Europeans then used in their systematic campaign to dominate the rest of the world politically, culturally, and economically starting about 500 years ago.

So contact can be beneficial, neutral, or damaging; it all depends on how the more powerful culture treats the other.