What pet peeves do you have about trek books?
- Thread starter Garm Bel Iblis
- Start date
And everyone forgets about the poor Lethe...
It needs a new ad campaign to improve its image. How about: "Lethe good times roll!"
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
And everyone forgets about the poor Lethe...
It needs a new ad campaign to improve its image. How about: "Lethe good times roll!"
I'm surprised you didn't comment on the clever joke in that Lethe comment.
And everyone forgets about the poor Lethe...
One of my pet peeves which I'm experiencing again in The Romulan War is the author's unnecessary use of swear words and other vulgarities. The reason I single Martin out in particular is because he's the only one I've noticed doing it. I recall Kobayashi Maru using the word "fuck" for no real good reason and Archer thowing around several g.d.'s when he's ranting. I realize that this language isn't used in most onscreen Trek for censoring reasons, but why is it necessary to bring it into Trek lit? For stories that are (for the most part) supposed to be about mankind striving towards higher levels of maturity, awareness, respectfulness, etc., why drag that sort of language in? It doesn't make the story feel any more "real" to me if that is the intent. He also seems to enjoy being much more vulgar with sexual issues too which I don't find endearing at all. Of course, it's just a pet peeve. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive. 
I'm surprised you didn't comment on the clever joke in that Lethe comment.
He forgot.
One of my pet peeves which I'm experiencing again in The Romulan War is the author's unnecessary use of swear words and other vulgarities. The reason I single Martin out in particular is because he's the only one I've noticed doing it. I recall Kobayashi Maru using the word "fuck" for no real good reason and Archer thowing around several g.d.'s when he's ranting. I realize that this language isn't used in most onscreen Trek for censoring reasons, but why is it necessary to bring it into Trek lit? For stories that are (for the most part) supposed to be about mankind striving towards higher levels of maturity, awareness, respectfulness, etc., why drag that sort of language in? It doesn't make the story feel any more "real" to me if that is the intent. He also seems to enjoy being much more vulgar with sexual issues too which I don't find endearing at all. Of course, it's just a pet peeve. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive.
I haven't read any of the ENT relaunch novels yet, so I don't have a grasp of how widespread it is, but in the TV series itself, the characters used plenty of swearwords and strong expressions, like damn (maybe goddamn, I'm not sure), hell, son of a bitch, so I don't think it's out of character for these people to swear.
Remember what Lt. Uhura said to Excalbian Abe Lincoln? "We've learned not to fear words." Some would argue that a more mature society wouldn't get too bothered by the fact that certain words are derived from Anglo-Saxon rather than Latin. Words are only as negative as the attitudes imposed onto them.
That didn't bother me. What did bother me was the dialogue peppered with untranslated words from Romulan and other languages. For example, units of measurement. The Romulans don't use the metric or imperial system -- but they don't speak English, either. While we're reading, we accept that (thinking inside the box) we're reading a translation from an alien language -- so why not have the hypothetical translator convert the measurements into ones we're familiar with?
That's not bothering me so much, since I like the idea of learning Rihannsu while I'm reading. What is bothering me is how little of the book has actually been spent on the Enterprise.
I would also like to add that I was the "guy a while back" who objected to Stygian appearing several times in every Trek book for about six months.
One of my greatest pet peeves is that the vast majority of the book line now consists of post-finale books. I'd like to see a few books set during the series. I'm aware that Pocket's submission guidelines are for stories/ideas set during the series, but they're only publishing about one book in every twenty-four that is even remotely set during the run of the various shows.
And everyone forgets about the poor Lethe...
It needs a new ad campaign to improve its image. How about: "Lethe good times roll!"
I've been trying to come up with a suitable example myself and failing. Le sigh.
I'm surprised you didn't comment on the clever joke in that Lethe comment.
He forgot.
Bolding added to ask... whaa???
Also, if the words aren't negative, why use them at all, especially as expletives?
Christopher is saying that the words carry connotations of vulgarity due to their Anglo-Saxon origins, whereas synonymous words in Latin do not. Anglo-Saxon words are considered "lower" and more vulger because English was a language used in lower society and in everday mundane matters- in contrast to Latin and French, which were used in elevated and learned society. Christopher's pointing out that "acceptable" words and "unacceptable" words often mean exactly the same thing; our attitudes of offense come not from the words' denotations but from connotations latched on to them due to other factors, such as in this case their language of origin, which leads to associations of class, courtesy levels, sophistication, etc
There is nothing immature about so-called "foul" language, and there's nothing mature about refraining from using such language.
Curse words are verbal tools, used to reflect extremities of emotion. Like any tool, they are appropriate for some situations and not others, and over-use of them can cause the blade to be dulled.
And "Goddamn" is so common that it hardly even counts as any more of a curse word than does "golly" -- which, by the way, originally meant, "God's body," and was considered an obscenity.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
^^ I don't think Elemental needs an explanation from anyone as to what cursing is.
I can see Elemental's point. If the swearing wasn't there nobody would miss it.
On the other hand, if people are going to swear in Trek, you think they'd be doing it all the time! I mean, 5 Klingon battlecruisers show up and nobody says "Holy Fucking Sweet Disco Jeesuuusss!!" Or what about when the universe is about to collapse? I think it's better to NOT curse as there may not be a word bad enough to cover something like that!
I can see Elemental's point. If the swearing wasn't there nobody would miss it.
On the other hand, if people are going to swear in Trek, you think they'd be doing it all the time! I mean, 5 Klingon battlecruisers show up and nobody says "Holy Fucking Sweet Disco Jeesuuusss!!" Or what about when the universe is about to collapse? I think it's better to NOT curse as there may not be a word bad enough to cover something like that!
Maybe a lot of humans in Starfleet just don't swear because alien cultures are better at it than we are, and our attempts at profanity are embarrassingly lame by comparison. And since we can't pronounce things like the notorious Betazoid expression wrb'xhlaknui-f'tangtangzhp correctly, there's just no point.
I like curse words. Curse words are the natural reaction to virtually everything that has ever happened on Star Trek.One of my pet peeves which I'm experiencing again in The Romulan War is the author's unnecessary use of swear words and other vulgarities. The reason I single Martin out in particular is because he's the only one I've noticed doing it. I recall Kobayashi Maru using the word "fuck" for no real good reason and Archer thowing around several g.d.'s when he's ranting. I realize that this language isn't used in most onscreen Trek for censoring reasons, but why is it necessary to bring it into Trek lit? For stories that are (for the most part) supposed to be about mankind striving towards higher levels of maturity, awareness, respectfulness, etc., why drag that sort of language in? It doesn't make the story feel any more "real" to me if that is the intent. He also seems to enjoy being much more vulgar with sexual issues too which I don't find endearing at all. Of course, it's just a pet peeve. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive.
Well, one of the few times swearing has come up in the franchise, it was established that Our Heroes of the 23rd Century suck at it ("A double dumbass on you!"), so there's some truth to what you're saying.
More generally, I agree with where Elemental is coming from in the sense that because we don't see the characters dropping the F-bomb, and it's not implied the way other Not Ready For Primetime activities are (e.g. nudity, extreme violence), it seems somewhat out of place in a Star Trek narrative the way it wouldn't in, say, a Sopranos or Sex and the City novel--or even in novels for other SF franchises with a wider vocabulary of alien coarse language (Farscape, I'm looking at you).
I expected there might be a response like this and had considered it. IIRC Uhura's quote was in reference to the word "Negress" and whether it was derogatory or not. To be honest, I'm not all that sure exactly what she means by this... Perhaps she just meant that people do not jump to assumptions of insult when such words are used, or maybe she meant that when insulting words are thrown at people, they no longer react with fear to them. I'm sure if ol' Abe called her a "Nigger", she may not have reacted in fear but I bet this would still be interpretted in a negative manner. I'm also pretty sure I've never heard a Star Trek character drop the F-bomb. Somehow I don't think common use of such language was what Uhura was defending. I don't "fear" the word, I just don't see it as appropriate. In a universe where we've never before seen this before, when characters start using it in the novels, it appears as out of sorts as if they started farting on the bridge.
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