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Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously)

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually quite like Ms. Chen. The idea of making her a surrogate daughter to Picard was a wise move on Christopher's part. With the death of Data, Picard really hasn't been anyone's mentor in a few years time. Worf is great, but he knows who he is. He's continuing his "schooling" in the ways of command through Picard, but he's not his "son" in the way that Data seemed to be (at least to me).

To me, Chen (along with Choudhury & Elfiki) seems to represent the next group of people that Picard will make into his starfleet family. He did it on the Stargazer (the Asmunds, Greyhorse, Joseph, BenZoma) and he did it on the Enterprise (TNG cast), so there's no reason to think he won't continue to operate in the same manner as he always has. I think Chen will continue to grow and eventually become as indispensible to Picard as officers like Geordi and Worf currently are. We just have to give her some time. She's only been on the ship for two TNG-R books and the Destiny trilogy.

I agree with your assessment of Chen, Paris. :) I'm fond of the character, and I appreciate her sense of humour quite a bit :lol:. I also enjoyed her story arc in "Losing the Peace".
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

She was great in LtP. The whole thing with her father was very well done. She did some of that "growing up" that people have complained was taking so long. I really hope she sticks around for good. She can be TNG's Saavik :techman:.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I just wanted to say that I'm another Chen fan. So far I've found her growth and development really interesting to follow. She's a nice change of pace from the usual Trek characters.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

i Grok Chen.

i like her a lot. she's a breath of fresh air on the double E.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I like Chen to, Enterprise needs someone with her personality.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I'm not a big fan of Chen myself....(Sorry, Christopher!) :p

Maybe she'll 'grow up' later on in the books, then grow on me...
I think Chen has plenty of potential to be a unique and interesting character, even though the reactions to her appearances to date have been mixed, at best. We'll just have to wait and see what Dayton manages to do with her...

Yeah, she does have the potential to grow; especially after reading the scenes with her and her father....and with Taurik.

I did find the game of Rivers to be pretty interesting; a Betazoid game where two people have domino-like pieces set up in front of them, and they have to lay a piece in front setting up land that will put the opponent in the midst of a drought or cause flooding, while irrigating their own territory...

Pretty interesting...
That was inspired by an actual game I'd played one summer way back when, except it was with a set of cards that had pictures of different pipes of different configurations, with the goal of connecting a water source to a faucet without any "leaks". Presumably, whoever marketed that game back in the '70s is long out of business, and in no position to sue for copyright infringement.

Interesting!


****

Sidenote: It was interesting how a character mentions something to the effect if the Borg are still alive, and Picard says something (to the effect) 'The Borg are all gone!'

It might be bad for the officer who shows up dressed in a Borg costume during a party; of course, since the Borg destroyed so much, it might effect a lot more people on different levels, but Picard seems to have a bit more 'personal' level with the cybernetic beings....almost a paranoia....

On another note, I'm looking forward into what the Typhon Pact brings.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Yeah, she does have the potential to grow; especially after reading the scenes with her and her father....and with Taurik.

I loved when Chen *ahem* flipped *ahem* Taurik what "may have been a Vulcan salute, minus three fingers." :guffaw:

Leisner for the win! :techman:
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Loved that scene too. I like T'ryssa as well.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

My thoughts, just one reader's opinions... :)

Kadohata: good riddance. She should have been busted back down to Lt. Cmdr. at least. And what happened to families on the ship? I know they unloaded the children before going to war, but now the parents should be able to have their families again, shouldn't they?

Choudhury: It's a good try, showing her dealing with her feelings all on her own, but she was badly in need of a guru at that time and there could easily be holograms of famous yogis to console her. And she should be singing this chant:
ya enam vetti hantaram
yas cainam manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijanito
nayam hanti na hanyate
rather than quoting the Buddha. I realize that to us westerners there seems to be a similarity between the schools of thought, but Indian people are either Buddhists or Vaisnavas, and the two are actually mutually exclusive. (Buddhists do not believe in God, and Vaisnavas do.)

This happened in the previous book, too, with Picard quoting Buddhist texts on the one hand and Choudhury referring to Krishna in her private space. That author said that the Indian peoples are open and inclusive, which is true to some extent, but only insomuch as the Vaisnavas acknowledge other monotheistic perspectives. On the subcontinent itself, the theists and atheists make it very clear where they stand and do not like peanut butter on their chocolate, or vice versa.

I like Choudhury more now than in the previous books. Somehow it seemed that her eastern inscrutibility was kind of a cliche. She wins poker hands because she lacks the desire to win? It was light-hearted and entertaining, but it didn't make me think she was real. Now that she has suffered this tragedy in her life, and chosen to live and act compassionately, she's got a lot more depth.

T'ryssa Chen: I'm glad she's got more lines in this book. She had, like, three total in all of Destiny, and those were mostly offhand remarks. Now she's back to contributing useful ideas in her colorful manner. And William Leisner makes it clear that she appers completely Vulcan to most people, so the sharp contrast between their assumptions and her behavior is accentuated.

Geordi: Wait... wasn't he supposed to get some non-holodeck intimacy? They beat the Borg. Was Ezri's chief engineer just teasing? Poor Geordi! Well, it was great to see that Worf at least has a renewed respect for him. That was a good exchange, and I put my own real world fantasy onto it, figuring that Avery Brooks was directing for Burton and Dorn, like a blast from the past, with a twist.

Worf: aka, the other male officer. He is really turning into an awesome Executive Officer. Back in 1st season TNG, all he really does is suggest using weapons. Then he grew up, had a kid, lost two Parmachis, made a career mistake that we all could understand, and went to be an embassador. But this is far better. He and Picard are like the two sides of the brain, and between them they seem to be able to arrive at good decisions. Is Choudhury right for Worf? Maybe... maybe... She mentioned the warrior caste from Indian tradition, and he seems to understand the surface meaning of the Bhagavad Gita, but I don't see Choudhury exploring his Klingon traditions with the same respect. Perhaps it is yet to be. I do think both sides of a couple have to have a deep respect for each others' traditions or it will never work. I think, if someone's going to love Worf, she's got to be willing to sit through some Klingon operas, and she's got to love it when he sings. All we've seen so far is that they work out together and once they made love, which they weren't sure was a smart thing, and now they are holding hands again. Ah well, there will never be another Jadzia.

The story: Wow. Today especially with all the sad destruction in Haiti, the mages of the refugee camp are compelling. William Leisner mentions the CBC study Anatomy of a Refugee Camp, but I also noticed an homage to a scene from Charlie Wilson's War. There's nothing quite like dropping a career politician into a refugee camp to shatter a few illusions! I also liked the phrase "Mack's Mess". I am sure we'll be reading about the restoration a bit longer.

Overall, it was a good book to read right after the Destiny trilogy because it clearly demonstrates that the story is not over by any stretch of the imagination, and there is so much more to come.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

they didn't make love. they had sex. there's a distinction.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

You must mean par'Mach.

But seriously, are you agreeing then that Jasminder has not shown that she actually cares about Worf, much less that she will endure Klingon opera* to prove it?

* = or anything that takes an effort
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

they may care for one another, but i don't think they're in love.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

And what happened to families on the ship? I know they unloaded the children before going to war, but now the parents should be able to have their families again, shouldn't they?

There's no reason there couldn't be families on the Enterprise. But as previous books established, Vicenzo wasn't willing to live aboard a starship, because he had his own career commitments back on Cestus III.


Choudhury: It's a good try, showing her dealing with her feelings all on her own, but she was badly in need of a guru at that time and there could easily be holograms of famous yogis to console her. And she should be singing this chant:
ya enam vetti hantaram
yas cainam manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijanito
nayam hanti na hanyate
rather than quoting the Buddha. I realize that to us westerners there seems to be a similarity between the schools of thought, but Indian people are either Buddhists or Vaisnavas, and the two are actually mutually exclusive. (Buddhists do not believe in God, and Vaisnavas do.)

Theravada Buddhism is non-theistic, but there are many gods in Mahayana Buddhism. And Jasminder Choudhury is not an orthodox or fundamentalist practitioner. She's basically a Hindu, but she believes, like Swami Vivekananda, that all faiths are fingers on the same hand, that one can find wisdom and guidance in any religion. She can quote Shankara, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Guru Nanak, Mahavira, Baha'u'llah, Surak, Kahless, Ho'nig, or any other great spiritual leader or thinker at the drop of a hat.


That author said that the Indian peoples are open and inclusive, which is true to some extent, but only insomuch as the Vaisnavas acknowledge other monotheistic perspectives. On the subcontinent itself, the theists and atheists make it very clear where they stand and do not like peanut butter on their chocolate, or vice versa.

As I told you the last time you brought this up, it would be a gross mistake to assume that the way things are in a given culture during your own lifetime is the way they will be 400 years from now, or the way they were 100 years ago.


Somehow it seemed that her eastern inscrutibility was kind of a cliche. She wins poker hands because she lacks the desire to win? It was light-hearted and entertaining, but it didn't make me think she was real.

You're taking something Jasminder said as a joke too literally.


T'ryssa Chen: I'm glad she's got more lines in this book. She had, like, three total in all of Destiny, and those were mostly offhand remarks.

Which is because Dave and I were working on our respective books at the same time and he didn't get the chance to read Greater Than the Sum until he'd already finished the first two volumes of Destiny.


And William Leisner makes it clear that she appers completely Vulcan to most people, so the sharp contrast between their assumptions and her behavior is accentuated.

Wasn't that made clear in GTTS?
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Just a random comment:

I'm sitting here, reading this thread and listening to Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance," and it suddenly occurs to me that the song somehow reminds me of T'Ryssa Chen.

Random thought for the day.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Thank you for your reply. :)

Theravada Buddhism is non-theistic, but there are many gods in Mahayana Buddhism. And Jasminder Choudhury is not an orthodox or fundamentalist practitioner. She's basically a Hindu, but she believes, like Swami Vivekananda, that all faiths are fingers on the same hand, that one can find wisdom and guidance in any religion. She can quote Shankara, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Guru Nanak, Mahavira, Baha'u'llah, Surak, Kahless, Ho'nig, or any other great spiritual leader or thinker at the drop of a hat.

FWIW, Swami Vivekananda is my main man, actually, and I'm technically an atheist. off topic, but I am well-read in him...

What I didn't say last time is that it may be true that a person draws inspiration from many sources, but when it comes down to the bottom line, such as happened to Jasminder, we find out what they really think. Quoting someone doesn't make you a follower. A person does decide between theist and atheist, and a theist does decide between personal and impersonal, and between the outside the universe creator concept versus the universe itself concept. Again, quoting is not the same as what you really believe when you are in your quarters and you can't meditate because all these loved ones are dead.

p.s. Anyway, you're the writer so you get to trump everything. I'm just posting my thoughts, such as they are. :)
 
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Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Choudhury: It's a good try, showing her dealing with her feelings all on her own, but she was badly in need of a guru at that time and there could easily be holograms of famous yogis to console her.
Interesting idea. FWIW, I attempted a number of scenes between Jasminder and Hegol Den, but ultimately decided the most interesting thing was to see her struggling with her feelings all by herself.

I realize that to us westerners there seems to be a similarity between the schools of thought, but Indian people are either Buddhists or Vaisnavas, and the two are actually mutually exclusive. (Buddhists do not believe in God, and Vaisnavas do.)
I will admit to being an under-informed Westerner on this topic. But...

This happened in the previous book, too, with Picard quoting Buddhist texts on the one hand and Choudhury referring to Krishna in her private space.
And as Christopher says, he did this with intent, portraying a woman with religious/philosophical beliefs that don't fit narrow 21st century definitions. This is part of who the character is.

And in the end, the specifics of Jasminder's faith don't really matter; it's how that faith affects the way she deals with her personal tragedy, and vice versa.

T'ryssa Chen: I'm glad she's got more lines in this book. She had, like, three total in all of Destiny, and those were mostly offhand remarks. Now she's back to contributing useful ideas in her colorful manner. And William Leisner makes it clear that she appers completely Vulcan to most people, so the sharp contrast between their assumptions and her behavior is accentuated.
Yeah, if only the author who created her had provided a physical description... :p

Geordi: Wait... wasn't he supposed to get some non-holodeck intimacy? They beat the Borg. Was Ezri's chief engineer just teasing? Poor Geordi!
Maybe someday, Mack will get a chance to expand Destiny and add that deleted scene back in...

Well, it was great to see that Worf at least has a renewed respect for him.
For that, I have to give big props to Margaret. She's the one who pointed out to me how odd it was that there was almost never any Worf-Geordi interaction over the course of seven-plus years, and I realized that was a great opportunity for both characters.

Is Choudhury right for Worf?
Damn good question. I'm looking forward to what Dayton has to say on the topic...

William Leisner mentions the CBC study Anatomy of a Refugee Camp, but I also noticed an homage to a scene from Charlie Wilson's War. There's nothing quite like dropping a career politician into a refugee camp to shatter a few illusions!
Huh. I did see Charlie Wilson's War (I'm not sure if it was before or after writing the book), and I can't think of the scenes that would be considered homage.

I also liked the phrase "Mack's Mess".
I think that was KRAD's coinage.

Overall, it was a good book to read right after the Destiny trilogy because it clearly demonstrates that the story is not over by any stretch of the imagination, and there is so much more to come.
Thanks for the review!
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

And thank you for the book... and for naming the runabout after one of the few north-flowing rivers on the planet. ;) Now, if the selkies turn the canabalized shell of it into a flour mill, it would be just too funny...

I suppose you two are both right about Choudhury. We readers each bring something different to a book. I spent several years after George Harrison's death trying to understand his religious perspective, and it was similarly complex. He did glean from many sources, mostly Hindu, but retained some of his Catholicism. He used to give copies of Autobiography of a Yogi to people like the Gideons would hand out Bibles. The first half of that book is set in India and is mainly childhood memories, so it's a great resource no matter what you personally believe.

Anyway, thanks ... to you and to all the writers. This is the first time I've ever given feedback and it was very cool. :)
 
Reading this book in 2022 is an interesting experience compared to 2009.

The 2015 European Refugee Crisis is an obvious real world parallel. So is Brexit with the fact that the refugee crisis led to that event (or so certain groups claim). The book has a much happier ending, of course, because the people in the Federation are, by and large, much better people than the ones that exist in our world. Certainly, the idea of the government coming together in a crisis and doing their best to make the world a better place is something that I'm glad I can read about since we went through our own Borg Invasion with the nanites involved being significantly more deadly.

(Someone earlier in the thread suggested it would be akin to 43 million dying, which is an impossible number to fathom but a million dead was an impossible number for me to fathom before the event happened)

Here, though, I believe this is the best possible follow-up for STAR TREK: DESTINY. Just sort of skipping past the consequences is a time-honored Star Trek tradition but not something that is warranted in the case of such an apocalyptic set of books. Refugees, political dissidents, and xenophobia hit so much harder now. But I'm going to show what a selfish-selfish fan of Star Trek that this book REALLY hits hard because of STAR TREK: CODA.

T'Ryssa Chen, Choudhury, and so many other characters in these books are now dead. Worse, they never even existed thanks to the ravages of the Crisis on Infinite UFOPs. Which is a shame since these two have rapidly moved up to become my favorite characters in the Expanded Universe. Christine Vale came back to the "novelverse" thanks to Dark Veil but I haven't yet seen these two (and hope they do). It adds a sense of dread and moroseness to the tale. They're pulling through the worst tragedy in Star Trek history only for an even worse one to claim them in the end.

This doesn't hurt the book but actually adds to the power of it. It's a very low key book about finding survivors, helping refugees, and more -- giving ample character development time for the heavy focus on personalities as well as trauma. It reminds me of the best of DS9 where Kira and other characters dealt with the worst elements of the Occupation.

5 stars.
 
Technically, it’s not that they don’t exist - they were alive before the point of divergence that created the First Splinter, so they are theoretically still in existence after the timeline is undone. Just that they don’t necessarily intersect with the cast and crew as time goes on - The Dark Veil featured Christine Vale and Ranul Keru as part of the Titan crew, so conceivably Trys and Choudhury and Kadohata all are crew members in Starfleet, just not necessarily on the Enterprise.
 
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