Should people be entitled to....

[Misfit Toy]

But some people are so gostile about it like it's their God given right! They've already had 2 extensions and also another energency benefit of up to 20 weeks. I think the total is 79 weeks in most states and if you tack on the 20 being talked about you're at 99!

So, when they exhaust the 99 do they still demand MORE?

Should they get checks until they get jobs, guaranteed?

I don't think you understand the mindset. As someone who has been involuntarily unemployed for longer than his initial unemployment lasted, please allow me to fill this in for you:

I was NOT thinking "It isn't my fault that I'm unemployed. I am ENTITLED to government payments from now on until I find a job, no matter how long that takes, and I will fight for this God-given RIGHT if necessary!"

I WAS thinking, "I am deeply ashamed that I am unemployed and cannot provide properly for my family. My self-esteem and self-respect are at all time lows. I don't believe that anyone owes me anything at this point, but if the government is willing to provide, I will swallow my pride and take it," during my initial unemployment period, followed by, "I still can't find a job even though I've made finding a job into one of the worst full-time jobs I've ever had. I only thought my self-respect and self-esteem were at all time lows before. My unemployment is out, and I know that nobody owes me anything, but if begging is what it takes, or if pretending that I believe I'm entitled and raising hell is what it takes to provide for my family, then that's what I will do."

You'd be surprised how people you might otherwise think of as strong, moral people may even start thinking about theft, or how they can make their own deaths provide for their families, under those circumstances.

As someone who is gainfully and well employed now, and pays taxes, and wouldn't mind paying a little more to make sure people don't have to go through what I did, I think our system is upside-down. People in a society as wealthy as ours should not have to beg or be given special dispensations in order to be fed, or have shelter, or basic health care.

I'm not advocating for raw socialism, here - I know that capitalism is a powerful and important force for innovation. But right-wingers can't seem to see the middle ground. (Nor can some lefties, to be fair.) NICE things should cost money. But anyone should be able to get a Humanitarian Daily Ration, or be provided with the most basic housing accommodations, or be seen for emergency medical care, whenever they need to.

Allow everyone to live with the minimums and a little dignity, and you don't need to worry about separate systems for unemployment and healthcare for the elderly and all the other programs that do the same thing under different circumstances. Think of the savings in eliminating all that extra bureaucracy, if nothing else!

Very nicely said - but there are some people who are not interested in understanding the mindset. They are convinced that people who apply for benefits consider said benefits as their God-given right.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

^ I think you just hit the nail more or less on the head, Bob.

Agreed.

I can definitely relate to those feelings, too. The 60 days I was unemployed were probably the worst 60 days of my life. I can't recall ever being more miserable than I was then.

 

[SeerSGB]

I don't know anyone that's has been on unemployment that wanted to stay on unemployment. Sure, there's some ass-hats out that see it as a chance to kick back and cash in, but the people I know-- friends, family-- that have had to deal with it weren't thinking "Free money". They were thinking "Shit, how am I going pay the car payment...ah fuck the mortgage's due...well, guess I'll let the medical go, that or we're not eating this month". They were busting their ass to get off it, going to interviews and attending "retraining" at the Unemployment office was nearly a daily routine for them and they jumped at the first job that would have them.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I don't know anyone that's has been on unemployment that wanted to stay on unemployment. Sure, there's some ass-hats out that see it as a chance to kick back and cash in, but the people I know-- friends, family-- that have had to deal with it weren't thinking "Free money". They were thinking "Shit, how am I going pay the car payment...ah fuck the mortgage's due...well, guess I'll let the medical go, that or we're not eating this month". They were busting their ass to get off it, going to interviews and attending "retraining" at the Unemployment office was nearly a daily routine for them and they jumped at the first job that would have them.

Yeah, unemployment doesn't pay shit. It really doesn't. It's very difficult to survive on it, because it's only ever a fraction of what you were paid before. The only people I've seen who think unemployment is a cakewalk are those who have been lucky enough not to lose a job.

It's no fun. Not at all. It's an utterly miserable experience. The people having "funemployment" are the exception, not the rule.

 

[SeerSGB]

I don't know anyone that's has been on unemployment that wanted to stay on unemployment. Sure, there's some ass-hats out that see it as a chance to kick back and cash in, but the people I know-- friends, family-- that have had to deal with it weren't thinking "Free money". They were thinking "Shit, how am I going pay the car payment...ah fuck the mortgage's due...well, guess I'll let the medical go, that or we're not eating this month". They were busting their ass to get off it, going to interviews and attending "retraining" at the Unemployment office was nearly a daily routine for them and they jumped at the first job that would have them.

Yeah, unemployment doesn't pay shit. It really doesn't. It's very difficult to survive on it, because it's only ever a fraction of what you were paid before. The only people I've seen who think unemployment is a cakewalk are those who have been lucky enough not to lose a job.

It's no fun. Not at all. It's an utterly miserable experience. The people having "funemployment" are the exception, not the rule.

The people on "Funemployment" (I'm so ripping off that term ) are the type of burn outs that would be useless whether they were drawing benefits or not.

I've actually turned down unemployment once, back before I was married, I told them I didn't want the check (had savings, my parents were helping out on the basics, and I didn't have a family), I wantd the job training. They got me enrolled in school and helped me get my certifications and paid for part of my retraining. For me the education and oppourtunities it opened up was worth more than the check.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

But some people are so gostile about it like it's their God given right! They've already had 2 extensions and also another energency benefit of up to 20 weeks. I think the total is 79 weeks in most states and if you tack on the 20 being talked about you're at 99!

So, when they exhaust the 99 do they still demand MORE?

Should they get checks until they get jobs, guaranteed?

I don't think you understand the mindset. As someone who has been involuntarily unemployed for longer than his initial unemployment lasted, please allow me to fill this in for you:

I was NOT thinking "It isn't my fault that I'm unemployed. I am ENTITLED to government payments from now on until I find a job, no matter how long that takes, and I will fight for this God-given RIGHT if necessary!"

I WAS thinking, "I am deeply ashamed that I am unemployed and cannot provide properly for my family. My self-esteem and self-respect are at all time lows. I don't believe that anyone owes me anything at this point, but if the government is willing to provide, I will swallow my pride and take it," during my initial unemployment period, followed by, "I still can't find a job even though I've made finding a job into one of the worst full-time jobs I've ever had. I only thought my self-respect and self-esteem were at all time lows before. My unemployment is out, and I know that nobody owes me anything, but if begging is what it takes, or if pretending that I believe I'm entitled and raising hell is what it takes to provide for my family, then that's what I will do."

You'd be surprised how people you might otherwise think of as strong, moral people may even start thinking about theft, or how they can make their own deaths provide for their families, under those circumstances.

As someone who is gainfully and well employed now, and pays taxes, and wouldn't mind paying a little more to make sure people don't have to go through what I did, I think our system is upside-down. People in a society as wealthy as ours should not have to beg or be given special dispensations in order to be fed, or have shelter, or basic health care.

I'm not advocating for raw socialism, here - I know that capitalism is a powerful and important force for innovation. But right-wingers can't seem to see the middle ground. (Nor can some lefties, to be fair.) NICE things should cost money. But anyone should be able to get a Humanitarian Daily Ration, or be provided with the most basic housing accommodations, or be seen for emergency medical care, whenever they need to.

Allow everyone to live with the minimums and a little dignity, and you don't need to worry about separate systems for unemployment and healthcare for the elderly and all the other programs that do the same thing under different circumstances. Think of the savings in eliminating all that extra bureaucracy, if nothing else!

Nice post Bob. Again, I'm for a hand up when times are hard. I support the current extensions because these people actually have worked and because of the state of the economy. I'm just wondering if people think these extensions should go on until someone finds work. There is a lot of fraud involved as well and that should be taken into consideration too.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

But some people are so gostile about it like it's their God given right! They've already had 2 extensions and also another energency benefit of up to 20 weeks. I think the total is 79 weeks in most states and if you tack on the 20 being talked about you're at 99!

So, when they exhaust the 99 do they still demand MORE?

Should they get checks until they get jobs, guaranteed?

I don't think you understand the mindset. As someone who has been involuntarily unemployed for longer than his initial unemployment lasted, please allow me to fill this in for you:

I was NOT thinking "It isn't my fault that I'm unemployed. I am ENTITLED to government payments from now on until I find a job, no matter how long that takes, and I will fight for this God-given RIGHT if necessary!"

I WAS thinking, "I am deeply ashamed that I am unemployed and cannot provide properly for my family. My self-esteem and self-respect are at all time lows. I don't believe that anyone owes me anything at this point, but if the government is willing to provide, I will swallow my pride and take it," during my initial unemployment period, followed by, "I still can't find a job even though I've made finding a job into one of the worst full-time jobs I've ever had. I only thought my self-respect and self-esteem were at all time lows before. My unemployment is out, and I know that nobody owes me anything, but if begging is what it takes, or if pretending that I believe I'm entitled and raising hell is what it takes to provide for my family, then that's what I will do."

You'd be surprised how people you might otherwise think of as strong, moral people may even start thinking about theft, or how they can make their own deaths provide for their families, under those circumstances.

As someone who is gainfully and well employed now, and pays taxes, and wouldn't mind paying a little more to make sure people don't have to go through what I did, I think our system is upside-down. People in a society as wealthy as ours should not have to beg or be given special dispensations in order to be fed, or have shelter, or basic health care.

I'm not advocating for raw socialism, here - I know that capitalism is a powerful and important force for innovation. But right-wingers can't seem to see the middle ground. (Nor can some lefties, to be fair.) NICE things should cost money. But anyone should be able to get a Humanitarian Daily Ration, or be provided with the most basic housing accommodations, or be seen for emergency medical care, whenever they need to.

Allow everyone to live with the minimums and a little dignity, and you don't need to worry about separate systems for unemployment and healthcare for the elderly and all the other programs that do the same thing under different circumstances. Think of the savings in eliminating all that extra bureaucracy, if nothing else!

Nice post Bob. Again, I'm for a hand up when times are hard. I support the current extensions because these people actually have worked and because of the state of the economy. I'm just wondering if people think these extensions should go on until someone finds work. There is a lot of fraud involved as well and that should be taken into consideration too.

No, the "fraud" shouldn't be "taken into consideration." There will always be people who abuse the system. We should find them and kick them off. That doesn't mean we should hold an overly-scrutinous eye to everyone who is playing by the rules, or make it more difficult to get on. When people talk about "eliminating fraud" all they really mean is "let's find any reason to kick people off the programs so we don't have to pay for them."

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I don't think you understand the mindset. As someone who has been involuntarily unemployed for longer than his initial unemployment lasted, please allow me to fill this in for you:

I was NOT thinking "It isn't my fault that I'm unemployed. I am ENTITLED to government payments from now on until I find a job, no matter how long that takes, and I will fight for this God-given RIGHT if necessary!"

I WAS thinking, "I am deeply ashamed that I am unemployed and cannot provide properly for my family. My self-esteem and self-respect are at all time lows. I don't believe that anyone owes me anything at this point, but if the government is willing to provide, I will swallow my pride and take it," during my initial unemployment period, followed by, "I still can't find a job even though I've made finding a job into one of the worst full-time jobs I've ever had. I only thought my self-respect and self-esteem were at all time lows before. My unemployment is out, and I know that nobody owes me anything, but if begging is what it takes, or if pretending that I believe I'm entitled and raising hell is what it takes to provide for my family, then that's what I will do."

You'd be surprised how people you might otherwise think of as strong, moral people may even start thinking about theft, or how they can make their own deaths provide for their families, under those circumstances.

As someone who is gainfully and well employed now, and pays taxes, and wouldn't mind paying a little more to make sure people don't have to go through what I did, I think our system is upside-down. People in a society as wealthy as ours should not have to beg or be given special dispensations in order to be fed, or have shelter, or basic health care.

I'm not advocating for raw socialism, here - I know that capitalism is a powerful and important force for innovation. But right-wingers can't seem to see the middle ground. (Nor can some lefties, to be fair.) NICE things should cost money. But anyone should be able to get a Humanitarian Daily Ration, or be provided with the most basic housing accommodations, or be seen for emergency medical care, whenever they need to.

Allow everyone to live with the minimums and a little dignity, and you don't need to worry about separate systems for unemployment and healthcare for the elderly and all the other programs that do the same thing under different circumstances. Think of the savings in eliminating all that extra bureaucracy, if nothing else!

Nice post Bob. Again, I'm for a hand up when times are hard. I support the current extensions because these people actually have worked and because of the state of the economy. I'm just wondering if people think these extensions should go on until someone finds work. There is a lot of fraud involved as well and that should be taken into consideration too.

No, the "fraud" shouldn't be "taken into consideration." There will always be people who abuse the system. We should find them and kick them off. That doesn't mean we should hold an overly-scrutinous eye to everyone who is playing by the rules, or make it more difficult to get on. When people talk about "eliminating fraud" all they really mean is "let's find any reason to kick people off the programs so we don't have to pay for them."

Well fraud is not the only concern of course. While I support the current extensions proposed, in the long run it has to end at some point. People will need to go on public assistance.

 

[sidious618]

Yes, I'm for pretty much unlimited unemployment.

 

[cultcross]

Yes, I'm for pretty much unlimited unemployment.

Personally, I was shocked to learn (through the wonderful cultural educator that is TNZ) that the US has limited unemployment. What exactly are you and your family supposed to do when it runs out if you haven't found a job? Starve?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yes, I'm for pretty much unlimited unemployment.

Personally, I was shocked to learn (through the wonderful cultural educator that is TNZ) that the US has limited unemployment. What exactly are you and your family supposed to do when it runs out if you haven't found a job? Starve?

Once your unemployment runs out, you have to go on other forms of assistance, such as:

• Food stamps
• Section 8 housing
• Medicaid
• TANF (welfare payments)

However, you are usually required to spend down all savings and extraneous assets before you can get those. You have to be pretty much destitute before you can qualify for those things.

 

[John Picard]

Everyone should be entitled to hookers and blow every once in a while.

 

[SeerSGB]

Yes, I'm for pretty much unlimited unemployment.

Personally, I was shocked to learn (through the wonderful cultural educator that is TNZ) that the US has limited unemployment. What exactly are you and your family supposed to do when it runs out if you haven't found a job? Starve?

Once your unemployment runs out, you have to go on other forms of assistance, such as:

• Food stamps
• Section 8 housing
• Medicaid
• TANF (welfare payments)

However, you are usually required to spend down all savings and extraneous assets before you can get those. You have to be pretty much destitute before you can qualify for those things.

Don't forget that in some states (TN for example) require you to work at least 20 hours a week in a paying job to "pay back into the system". They can and do drop you if you don't meet the employment requirement.

Linkage to TN DHS

From the Food Stamp rules

Work. To receive food stamps, most able-bodied people between 16 and 59 years old must register for work, participate in the Employment & Training Program if offered, accept offers of employment, and cannot quit a job. Able-bodied adults without dependents aged 18 to 59 can receive only 5 months food stamp benefits in 3 years, unless working 80 hours per month or otherwise determined exempt from the rule.

Now if you can't find a job in this economy/recession, you're just fucked. And if your employer is treating you like shit (which does happen to some folks on Food Stamps in really shitty jobs) you can't quit.

As for money:

Countable assets include cash on hand, money in checking, savings accounts, certificates of deposit, stocks, bonds, property not up for sale, and lump-sum payments.

The asset limit is $2,000 for most households and $3,000 for households containing a member who is disabled or 60 years of age

Countable income includes wages, selfemployment, public assistance benefits, unemployment benefits, worker’s compensation, child support, pensions, social security, and SSI.

 

[Amaris]

One of the things that makes me frustrated now are Job search engines. I'm signed up to a bunch of them. The problem is that they like to tease people now. I'll get an email from Monster.com telling me they've found me a job in my area, I go to click on it, they take me to a page that says to not miss this "money making opportunity", and I realize they've brought me to a Monster.com sponsor's page. I get frustrated with things like that. It's bad enough that I'm unemployed, but quit getting my hopes up when all you're doing is trying to make a quick buck, while I'm unemployed.

J.

 

[SeerSGB]

The Unemployment office isn't much better. Last time I used the state's job placement service, they found me a job at a Gas Station...in Memphis...on the other end of the state, 6 hours away for $5.50 an hour at 12 hours a week, then they wondered why I refused to "commute".

 

[Amaris]

The Unemployment office isn't much better. Last time I used the state's job placement service, they found me a job at a Gas Station...in Memphis...on the other end of the state, 6 hours away for $5.50 an hour at 12 hours a week, then they wondered why I refused to "commute".

Ah, yes. It's reassuring to know that they have our best interests at heart.


J.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

In Indiana, they've replaced most of the unemployment system with computers that don't really do much. Instead of having people there to help you, they just want you to hop on the computer and do job searches. They also offer training sessions through the computer, but I don't know how valuable those are, really. I applied to a few jobs (very few) using the state-run system, but the pickings were pretty slim.

I actually got my job through Monster. A third-party recruiting firm found me, set up an interview with this company, and that led to the job. I still get hits from time to time, and I pass them on to the people who were laid off with me--many of whom are still out of work, 10 months later.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Well I'm one of those people who this question might be addressed to personally. Except for one two month and one two week period I have been unemployed since November of 2007 and have been on unemployment for that time. This question really does weigh on me greatly. Not just because I am kind of a Libertarian who doesn't like to feel I am depending on other people, but because I question if I am just doing everything wrong, and it is my fault I am unemployed.

If anyone read a recent post of mine they know my federal extension was cancelled and I had to reopen a new state claim that pays me 60% less and I basically hit the roof. I don't want to sound entitled, but I can't remotely live on $103 a week and the main reason why I was so upset was because the extension was cancelled because of that two month job I worked. I felt like I was being punished for actually working. I also applied for food stamps yesterday. It gives me a whole $119 a month. Food stamp workers are also insufferable dicks who hate their jobs and the people they work with all day and treat you like you are a lazy bum trying to rip off the system.

I can tell you the job market is not good. I remember back in 2000 when the economy was booming I applied at a temp agency. The recruiter basically pulled out a file of jobs and actually asked me if certain ones sounded good to me. This time around I have applied at half a dozen temp agencies and over two years I have gotten exactly two jobs. Some of them don't even bother responding to your e-mails anymore. The number of jobs I have applied for is in the 100s. I am just not hearing from anyone.

I think I am kind of in the same boat as J. Allen. I am overeducated, but under-skilled. I have a college degree so low wage jobs don't want to hire me. But I don't have strong specific skills so better paying jobs are going to hire people with the most direct experience.

I guarantee being on unemployment hasn't been good for my mental or finacial well being. I am completely submerged in debt, and I don't even want to look at what my credit rating is. I already suffer from depression and have considered suicide more times in the last year then the last 20 combined. My girlfriend who is largely supporting me has been pushed to her breaking point too. I desperately want to work just to feel like a man again.

I just started pharmacy technician school so hopefully things will be brighter in a short while. I can tell you they would have been much brighter if I had the federal extension still. I don't see any other way to keep things running right now without unemployment extensions though. There just doesn't seem to be work out there.

 

[JiNX-01]

I'm on unemployment.

I was laid off from my job at the newspaper where I worked (you might have heard rumors about the thousands of journalists who have lost jobs in the last couple of years, some as a result of their newspapers going out business). I go to monster.com and look for any work as an editor anywhere in New York State and the only opportunities I've seen require specialized backgrounds (international relations, business, medicine, etc.) in addition to editing skills. Unfortunately, my background was strictly newspaper editing.

And so, at the age of 55 (not exactly the optimum age to seeking a job), I am going to be returning to college in January to hopes of pursuing a change in careers after nearly 30 years in a business I expected would keep me gainfully employed until I became eligible for social security (hope nobody minds if I collect that when the time comes).

Grateful as I am for the $405 (before taxes) and the $25 supplement (before taxes) I get each week, I'd rather be pulling down the $1,000+ (before taxes) I was earning each week just three months ago.

I'm also grateful for NYState's commitment to helping me get back to work (because journalism jobs are disappearing, I'm eligible for financial aid to return to school).

 

[Amaris]

In Indiana, they've replaced most of the unemployment system with computers that don't really do much. Instead of having people there to help you, they just want you to hop on the computer and do job searches. They also offer training sessions through the computer, but I don't know how valuable those are, really. I applied to a few jobs (very few) using the state-run system, but the pickings were pretty slim.

I actually got my job through Monster. A third-party recruiting firm found me, set up an interview with this company, and that led to the job. I still get hits from time to time, and I pass them on to the people who were laid off with me--many of whom are still out of work, 10 months later.

It's rough. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan have severely depressed economies, and we're feeling the pinch. Every little shop, grocery store, specialty shop, gas station and any other business has seen my face almost every day as I apply and then check up on my application. I have put in applications in every other town in the nearby area. Not a single nibble anywhere. It's pretty bad.

Well I'm one of those people who this question might be addressed to personally. Except for one two month and one two week period I have been unemployed since November of 2007 and have been on unemployment for that time. This question really does weigh on me greatly. Not just because I am kind of a Libertarian who doesn't like to feel I am depending on other people, but because I question if I am just doing everything wrong, and it is my fault I am unemployed.

If anyone read a recent post of mine they know my federal extension was cancelled and I had to reopen a new state claim that pays me 60% less and I basically hit the roof. I don't want to sound entitled, but I can't remotely live on $103 a week and the main reason why I was so upset was because the extension was cancelled because of that two month job I worked. I felt like I was being punished for actually working. I also applied for food stamps yesterday. It gives me a whole $119 a month. Food stamp workers are also insufferable dicks who hate their jobs and the people they work with all day and treat you like you are a lazy bum trying to rip off the system.

I can tell you the job market is not good. I remember back in 2000 when the economy was booming I applied at a temp agency. The recruiter basically pulled out a file of jobs and actually asked me if certain ones sounded good to me. This time around I have applied at half a dozen temp agencies and over two years I have gotten exactly two jobs. Some of them don't even bother responding to your e-mails anymore. The number of jobs I have applied for is in the 100s. I am just not hearing from anyone.

I think I am kind of in the same boat as J. Allen. I am overeducated, but under-skilled. I have a college degree so low wage jobs don't want to hire me. But I don't have strong specific skills so better paying jobs are going to hire people with the most direct experience.

I guarantee being on unemployment hasn't been good for my mental or finacial well being. I am completely submerged in debt, and I don't even want to look at what my credit rating is. I already suffer from depression and have considered suicide more times in the last year then the last 20 combined. My girlfriend who is largely supporting me has been pushed to her breaking point too. I desperately want to work just to feel like a man again.

I just started pharmacy technician school so hopefully things will be brighter in a short while. I can tell you they would have been much brighter if I had the federal extension still. I don't see any other way to keep things running right now without unemployment extensions though. There just doesn't seem to be work out there.

Keep hanging in there. Something will come along eventually.

J.