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Best white/Caucasian role models in Trek....?

Joel_Kirk

Joel_Kirk

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Spin-off of the best 'black' and 'Asian' role models in Trek threads.

There are numerous characters, but I'll try to stick to those most are familiar with; and all characters are considered 'Prime' characters unless noted:

-James T. Kirk
-Leonard McCoy
-Pavel Chekhov
-Christine Chapel
-Spock (I know this can be debated)
-Christopher Pike
-Philip Boyce
-Number One (Pike's XO)
-Yeoman Colt
-Jose Tyler
-Jean-Luc Picard
-William Riker
-Miles O'Brien
-George Kirk (nuTOS)
-Edith Keeler
-Matt Decker
-Will Decker
-Amanda Grayson
-David Marcus
-Carol Marcus
-Captain Styles
-Gillian Taylor
-Colonel West
-Beverly Crusher
-Anij
-Wesley Crusher
-Montgomery Scott
-Tasha Yar
-Data
-Katherine Pulaski
-Admiral William Ross
-Admiral Alynna Nechayev
-Admiral Edward Jellico
-Kathyrn Janeway
-Tom Paris
-Captain Rudolph Ransom
-Jonathan Archer
-Charles 'Trip' Tucker
-Malcolm Reed
-Admiral Maxwell Forest
-Admiral Matthew Dougherty
-Other...
 
Joel_Kirk said:
Spin-off of the best 'black' and 'Asian' role models in Trek threads.

There are numerous characters, but I'll try to stick to those most are familiar with; and all characters are considered 'Prime' characters unless noted:

-James T. Kirk
-Leonard McCoy
-Pavel Chekhov
-Christine Chapel
-Spock (I know this can be debated)
-Christopher Pike
-Philip Boyce
-Number One (Pike's XO)
-Yeoman Colt
-Jose Tyler
-Jean-Luc Picard
-William Riker
-Miles O'Brien
-George Kirk (nuTOS)
-Edith Keeler
-Matt Decker
-Will Decker
-Amanda Grayson
-David Marcus
-Carol Marcus
-Captain Styles
-Gillian Taylor
-Colonel West
-Beverly Crusher
-Anij
-Wesley Crusher
-Montgomery Scott
-Tasha Yar
-Data
-Katherine Pulaski
-Admiral William Ross
-Admiral Alynna Nechayev
-Admiral Edward Jellico
-Kathyrn Janeway
-Tom Paris
-Captain Rudolph Ransom
-Jonathan Archer
-Charles 'Trip' Tucker
-Malcolm Reed
-Admiral Maxwell Forest
-Admiral Matthew Dougherty
-Other...
Click to expand...

I think this thread nicely illustrates the fact that a disproportionately large percentage of primary characters in Star Trek have been of European descent. Hopefully future Star Trek productions won't be so ethnocentric.
 
Joel_Kirk said:
-Data
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You don't think that one could be debated?

For the record, Nichelle Nichols said that Spock was always her favorite character in Star Trek and the one she identified with the most (in the audition, when the role of Uhura had not been written yet, she read a part of the script and didn't know the character's gender and said that 'she' - Spock - was the character she'd like to play :lol:) and that he could be seen as a metaphor/analogy to a mixed race person in USA - which is a very good point, I think.
 
Green Shirt said:
captcalhoun said:
this will not end well...
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Agreed. This kind of stuff only serves to emphasize the differences among people in a way that goes against what Trek was originally supposed to be about.
Click to expand...

On the contrary -- Star Trek is all about differences among people. It's all about celebrating differences and seeing differences as a good thing, and about seeing different groups as all being unique and equal. "Infinite Diversity In Infinite Combinations" and all that.

There's nothing wrong with emphasizing difference, actually. The problem comes when the message, implicit or explicit, is sent that some groups are better than others because of their differences.
 
Nods to Devileyes in the Asian thread for this thought about the blanket term "Euro-American": if we had a Star Trek character who was from Spain (I'm not aware of any, so please enlighten if you do), would s/he count as white/caucasian/European since the country is in Europe, or would he be an Hispanic character like Torres, along the lines of Mexican, Central & South American, etc? I admit, my knowledge of Spain and Latino nations is pretty slim.

Things that make you go hmmm.
 
Miles O'Brien. He's definitely the best Irish one, anyway (though he has little competiton, obviously.)

Personally, Jean-Luc Picard. That's the sort of person I'd like to be, when one gets down to it.

Besides Jean-Luc, the Star Trek characters who'd stand out to me personally as role models - Spock, Data, the Doctor - don't exactly fit the description of white, insofar as they're not actually human (though Spock is half-European human and both Data and the Doctor are based on white males).

Cyke101 said:
Nods to Devileyes in the Asian thread for this thought: if we had a Star Trek character who was from Spain (I'm not aware of any, so please enlighten if you do), would he count as white/caucasian/European, or would he be an Hispanic character like Torres?
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Heck if you want to ask that, well, there are many in the Caucasus who may not be considered Caucasian.
 
Kegg said:
Cyke101 said:
Nods to Devileyes in the Asian thread for this thought: if we had a Star Trek character who was from Spain (I'm not aware of any, so please enlighten if you do), would he count as white/caucasian/European, or would he be an Hispanic character like Torres?
Click to expand...

Heck if you want to ask that, well, there are many in the Caucasus who may not be considered Caucasian.
Click to expand...

Examples? I'm kind of intrigued. Of course, this means that I have to dust off all those ethnic studies books from college :)

Would you mean things like, say, people of Mediterranean origins?
 
My answer to this is the same as it was in the black male thread. Sci is correct that there is nothing racist about celebrating diversity, but there is something racist/bigoted about the implication that "white" people or "black" people (whatever those mean) could only learn positive traits from people of their own ethnicity, sexual identity, or even species.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
My answer to this is the same as it was in the black male thread. Sci is correct that there is nothing racist about celebrating diversity, but there is something racist/bigoted about the implication that "white" people or "black" people (whatever those mean) could only learn positive traits from people of their own ethnicity, sexual identity, or even species.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that there's something racist. I'd say that it *is* racist, just more all encompassing than limiting racism to just one group.

Gotta love how in TOS, Spock and McCoy would both bicker but would end up complimenting/work with each other in some way, as if they learned from each other.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
My answer to this is the same as it was in the black male thread. Sci is correct that there is nothing racist about celebrating diversity, but there is something racist/bigoted about the implication that "white" people or "black" people (whatever those mean) could only learn positive traits from people of their own ethnicity, sexual identity, or even species.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.
 
Well, I know it might be biased... actually, I know it is biased, but I cast my vote for Picard. He has exhibited, time and again, deep respect for all cultures in very personal way; and his character is unique, in that as an actor he also has shown deep respect for the arts by chosing roles such as those in "A Christmas Carol" and Shakespere. If one Trek Character does more than all others to foster respect for the human race as a whole, I think that his does.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
My answer to this is the same as it was in the black male thread. Sci is correct that there is nothing racist about celebrating diversity, but there is something racist/bigoted about the implication that "white" people or "black" people (whatever those mean) could only learn positive traits from people of their own ethnicity, sexual identity, or even species.
Click to expand...
I don't think that is implied by the question, however. No one is suggesting that any of the people named in these threads are the ONLY role models in the franchise.
 
One thing too is using a person from of a certain ethnicity or nationality to provide opinions and ideas that would be representative of that whole group.
Maybe Sunil is from India but Sunil has his own ideas and opinions. Maybe you get my point.
 
Sci said:
Joel_Kirk said:
Spin-off of the best 'black' and 'Asian' role models in Trek threads.

There are numerous characters, but I'll try to stick to those most are familiar with; and all characters are considered 'Prime' characters unless noted:

-James T. Kirk
-Leonard McCoy
-Pavel Chekhov
-Christine Chapel
-Spock (I know this can be debated)
-Christopher Pike
-Philip Boyce
-Number One (Pike's XO)
-Yeoman Colt
-Jose Tyler
-Jean-Luc Picard
-William Riker
-Miles O'Brien
-George Kirk (nuTOS)
-Edith Keeler
-Matt Decker
-Will Decker
-Amanda Grayson
-David Marcus
-Carol Marcus
-Captain Styles
-Gillian Taylor
-Colonel West
-Beverly Crusher
-Anij
-Wesley Crusher
-Montgomery Scott
-Tasha Yar
-Data
-Katherine Pulaski
-Admiral William Ross
-Admiral Alynna Nechayev
-Admiral Edward Jellico
-Kathyrn Janeway
-Tom Paris
-Captain Rudolph Ransom
-Jonathan Archer
-Charles 'Trip' Tucker
-Malcolm Reed
-Admiral Maxwell Forest
-Admiral Matthew Dougherty
-Other...
Click to expand...

I think this thread nicely illustrates the fact that a disproportionately large percentage of primary characters in Star Trek have been of European descent. Hopefully future Star Trek productions won't be so ethnocentric.
Click to expand...

No, what it does is illustrate that the pollster is casting a much wider net.

The black/African American thread listed only major characters, and heroes at that. And I just noted it leaves out Jake Sisko and Travis Mayweather, both of whom were given opening-credit status throughout their shows (snickering about Mayweather aside). No recurring characters (Joseph Sisko, Kasidy Yates), no guest stars (Lily from FC), and no villains (Admiral Cartwright, for example).

Same thing with the Asian role models thread, although that net does get cast more widely (Caithlin Dar, Demora Sulu).

This thread however lists a lot of characters with extremely limited screen time (Yeoman Colt, Phillip Boyce, Jose Tyler), one-shot charcters (the three previous, plus for example Edith Keeler, Will Decker), and villains (Col. West, Rudy Ransom, Larry Styles).

The point is valid; the example used is not.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
My answer to this is the same as it was in the black male thread. Sci is correct that there is nothing racist about celebrating diversity, but there is something racist/bigoted about the implication that "white" people or "black" people (whatever those mean) could only learn positive traits from people of their own ethnicity, sexual identity, or even species.
Click to expand...

Fine, I'll answer the question as a white male. One of the top role models I've gotten from Trek is Capt. Sisko. As a father, I admire how he is raising Jake. He has given his son his own sense of morality and ethics, yet has also allowed his son to find his own way, even though he may not have agreed with those choices. Even being a leader, he has no problem showing affection to his son, and has earned his son's respect. He has a strong sense of family, as well as strong convictions of his own, which he is not afraid to stand behind. When he's wrong, he is not afraid to admit it and learn from the experience.
So, for this white man, Capt. Sisko is an excellent role model.
 
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