Couldn't have said it better myself, and almost did, until I read this.
Good lord Trek lit is confusing.
- Thread starter Infern0
- Start date
Couldn't have said it better myself, and almost did, until I read this.
OMG!!!
That was my first Star Trek book too. And I loved it.
But the movers lost my original copy in a move from the US to Italy .
Have you read the Vorkosigan series by Bujold?
http://www.epinions.com/content_4838039684
I recently finished 3 Star Trek books, started another but just couldn't get into it.
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3373597&postcount=382
The bottom line is that the Vorkosigan series is better than Star Trek.
psik
^ In that case, you should start with TNG #0 Encounter at Farpoint 
But wait! We're missing a huge opportunity here - why don't we get Infern0 started with all the Lost Era books, branching into Stargazer, and the Terok Nor trilogy, and THEN onto TNG.
Really following the series chronologically.
Infern0 - you should definately pick up Voyages of Imagination, and use that (and the trek lit timeline in the back) to choose where you want to start.
But wait! We're missing a huge opportunity here - why don't we get Infern0 started with all the Lost Era books, branching into Stargazer, and the Terok Nor trilogy, and THEN onto TNG.
Really following the series chronologically.
Infern0 - you should definately pick up Voyages of Imagination, and use that (and the trek lit timeline in the back) to choose where you want to start.
I read some Vorkosigan stuff that appeared in Analog, I think, back in the '80s. Didn't like it.
Four books, out of several hundred books, is not enough to constitute a representative sample, especially when you're comparing the work of dozens of writers in hundreds of books to one writer's work in, what, a couple dozen books or so? Not that it really matters when what you're talking about is a matter of personal taste more than anything else.
(Incidentally, Lois McMaster Bujold was involved in the Trek fanzine scene very early on -- she had a story in Spockanalia 2 back in 1968.)
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Actually, the continuity of the 24th century series is what prompted me to stop reading them. The delays with the DS9 storyline, the jump in time and Titan, supposedly being well beyond the Federation, being pulled back into a crossover. I just lost interest with it. And I'd been enjoying the Titan series very much. Now the "We're way out here exploring" feeling is gone. The next time a multi series crossover needs the ship or characters then they'll hightail it back to the Federation somehow. It's the same thing that led me to give up comics.
Hopefully Vanguard will continue to be left pretty much alone. The little bits of continuity are great although the last story suffered from the small universe syndrome. Carol Marcus AND Admiral Nogura? Does everything have to revolve around the characters from TOS? A mention or a brief (up to two books) appearance is fine. I'd rather get to know some new characters.
^ The fact that Titan was so far out beyond the Federation is what caused them to be important to the Destiny trilogy in the first place. Them getting pulled back and interacting with the other crews was pretty clearly an exceptional circumstance, and then thematically served to further reinforce the reason they were exploring out so far in the first place. Which they promptly returned to. I have trouble seeing your complaint there.
And I made a thread about the DS9 jump, too - I think, even if you ignore the ongoing-continuity reasoning for the time jump, it makes perfect sense from a storytelling perspective. More arguments here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=103181
And I made a thread about the DS9 jump, too - I think, even if you ignore the ongoing-continuity reasoning for the time jump, it makes perfect sense from a storytelling perspective. More arguments here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=103181
Only temporarily. It's definitely back in Over a Torrent Sea and next month's Synthesis.
Not necessarily. Titan is involved in the upcoming Typhon Pact miniseries, but that's four distinct adventures, and there's no reason the Titan installment couldn't take place far out in unexplored space (after all, who says the Federation is the only civilization that sends ships into deep space?).
That's a rather odd complaint, considering that there are only a few TOS characters in this large ensemble, and Marcus in particular has had quite a minor role so far. Not to mention that Nogura never actually appeared in any TOS production onscreen, but was merely alluded to in one movie.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
There's lots of TOS connections in Vanguard already. Pennington having an affair with D'Amato's wife, Dr. M'Benga before he transferres to the Enterprise, Gorkon as a junior member of the high council. It's a big Federation but at times it feels like there's 1000 people in it.
Marcus's role may have been small thus far but I hope that it actually becomes more prominent. I'd hate to think that she was brought in just to provide background for JTK.
There's any number of Admirals that have been mentioned or shown once. Nogura seems get more mention in the various novels. As I said, I much prefer the new characters with one or two established characters. Much like O'Brien (and later Worf) moving to DS9. They didn't take away from the other characters.
^And that's exactly what you have in Vanguard. A large number of new characters -- Reyes, Fisher, Desai, Xiong, Pennington, Quinn, T'Prynn, Jetanien, Cooper, Ganz, Sandesjo, the entire Endeavor crew, all but one of the Sagittarius crew, etc. -- and a smattering of familiar characters such as M'Benga, Marcus, Terrell, Nogura, and Gorkon. So it's absurd to say that "everything" in VNG revolves around TOS characters.
What, that the storytellers went in a different direction to the one you predicted might happen?
Sounds like real life to me. How often do any of us get things turning out exactly how we planned - all the time?
Gosh, what do we really know about Nogura? That Kirk somehow once tricked him into letting him demote Will Decker? That's all... canonically.
That Nogura once pushed Kirk and Lori together? TMP novelization)
Not much else. Why not learn more about him, instead of New Admiral Whatshisname?
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
I didn't say that everything did revolve around TOS although I could have phrased it better. I just wish that we could get past the need to have characters from TOS show up in each book. It's that same time of Kirk. OK, I got it. When DS9 started, other than Q showing up for a guest spot, they left the show to establish itself. It wasn't Bashier's old friend from med school showing up one week and we find out it Dr. Crusher. And then next week Jake makes friends with Wesley who just happens to stop off on his way back to the Enterprise.
The series is called Vanguard. How many major characters on the station have connections to the Enterprise? With the addition of Marcus and Nogura it's gone up. The Enterprise did their guest shot in the first book. Let the new characters tell their stories.
I'm reminded of when Vaughn was first introduced. It seemed like he was appearing in all the series at once and most of the major characters had worked with him at some point. For me, it almost became a running gag, how will Vaughn work into this one? I'm a big fan of the character. I enjoyed most of the stories he appeared in. However, at times, I rolled my eyes and muttered "Not him again".
Of course, this is just my opinion. I'm not saying the authors did or are doing a bad job. There's just some things that pull me out of a story. Having the universe feel like it has 1000 people in it is one.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
No, it was the interruption of ongoing storylines for the latest mega-crossover. Titan is supposed to be about getting back to exploring and going Where No One Has Gone Before. Destiny, as great as it was, interrupted that. However, that could have worked if Titan was still out there and got involved somehow. Even communicated with Starfleet. But the story brought them back to where they started. So they set out again. In the words of Bullwinkle "This time for sure!" Don't forget that the first two books in the series were follow-ups to a movie and previous novel. Then we have two novels of exploration and BAM! Back to the Federation. How about going a bit more boldly this time?
I don't think that's what kkozoriz1 meant by the comics comparison, but rather the tendency in contemporary comics for serial crossover events to dominate individual books to the point where immersion in a single title is difficult and potentially unrewarding. Also the related tendency for characters to pop up all over the place, wherever they happen to be needed at a given moment, in defiance of such things as time and space and the inability to be in two places at once
That, anyway, is what I inferred.
EDIT: Oops, kkozoriz1 was replying even as I typed.
Ahem...
Look -- it's Star Trek: Vanguard, not just Vanguard. It's assumed that if you're interested in reading Star Trek tie-ins, you want them to, you know, tie in to Star Trek. If you want fiction that doesn't have any connections at all to aired Star Trek, there are thousands and thousands of works of original science fiction that are worth checking out. Try some Asimov or Cherryh or Niven or Benford or Brin or McCaffrey or Egan or Banks or... you name it.
Besides, why are you singling out Vanguard? Of all the book-only series, it's the one with the fewest central characters from canonical Trek. New Frontier has Shelby, Selar, Lefler, and Morgan, who's supposedly Number One. Corps of Engineers has Gomez, Duffy, Stevens, and Scotty. Titan has Riker, Troi, Tuvok, Melora Pazlar, Alyssa Ogawa, and Sariel Rager. For its first three books, the only lead character in Vanguard who wasn't entirely new was M'Benga. Terrell was just a supporting character. Now there's one more lead character, Nogura, with a minimal TOS connection, plus another supporting character, Carol Marcus -- and M'Benga is leaving the series since it's about time for him to transfer to the Enterprise.
As for Gorkon, it makes perfect sense to focus on the future Chancellor of the Klingon Empire when you're writing about Klingon politics. Vanguard is meant to be part of the TOS era, to explore the background behind things we saw on TOS and the movies -- things like the Romulan raids in "Balance of Terror," the Klingon conflict in "Errand of Mercy," the backstory of Dr. M'Benga, the development of the Genesis Device, and so on. VNG was never intended to be totally unconnected from TOS; it was meant to show us the larger stories behind things from TOS. So naturally there are going to be connections.
I'm no great fan of Small Universe Syndrome myself, but I don't think it's anywhere near accurate to hold up Vanguard as the poster child for it. On the contrary, VNG is one of the most successful series at balancing familiar characters and concepts with new ones and making the connections seem logical rather than gratuitous.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Actually, Vanguard is my favorite series right now. I don't want to see it become a showcase for TOS crossovers. Carol Marcus has a good reason to be there. Cool. Not only do we get background on her but David and the beginnings of Genesis as well.
What is the reason that the Admiral MUST be Nogura? Why not give us a new, even alien, character? Every time I read about Nogura I think Kirk. Why? Because that's the only canon context we have. He was an unseen admiral at the beginning of a movie. Let's see something we haven't seen before. We already know he'll make it through to the time of TMP.
I'm not reading New Frontier. As much as I'd like to read about Arex and M'Ress, their addition was simply too much of the same small universe. What reason was there to move both of them forward in time? New Frontier lost a lot of it attraction for me with all the tie-ins as well. Morgan was Number One and is the ship's computer? I guess that's why the computers sound like Number One but why does Nurse Chapel sound so similar? These are bit's that don't need to be addressed.
Mark McHenry is also tied into TOS? Wow, small universe. Of course Spock played a role in the initial story. How many more connections do we need?
Wow, making a bit of an assumption aren't you? The last time I checked my count on my copy of Delicious Library, I owned over 6,500 books, not counting multiple copies or different editions. Star Trek books makes up a fairly small percentage of those, although I do own most all of them. I've been reading Heinlien and Asimov since I was in grade school. As a matter of fact I can recall that the first book I ever picked out for myself was Lester Del Rey's The Runaway Robot in 1967. There's not many SF authors I haven't read at least once. I've also read more than my fair share of non-fiction. So let's lay off the "Try some Asimov or Cherryh or Niven or Benford or Brin or McCaffrey or Egan or Banks or..." shall we? I probably read them before you did.
^ I think you missed his point. He wasn't suggesting you hadn't read them, just that if you buy something with Star Trek on the cover, it will likely contain some references to the larger canon of Star Trek. If you don't want any references to the established universe, there's lots of other stuff to read.
And I agree. It seems churlish to insist that tie-in novels have a lack of tie-in material in order to enjoy them.
And I agree. It seems churlish to insist that tie-in novels have a lack of tie-in material in order to enjoy them.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
I'm not saying that Vanguard shouldn't have ANY reference or connection to TOS. It has a large number of them already and I would prefer to see them develop what makes them a unique part of Star Trek rather than simply see how many old TOS threads they can weave into the story of Vanguard.
Will Sanchez from That Which Survives show up eventually? Whatever happened to Kevin Riley? Is Vanguard where Janice Rand transferred to after leaving the Enterprise? Where does it stop? Let Vanguard be Vanguard. Let's learn more about the Tholians. How about the races native to this area of space? TOS did very few episodes that could be called sequels. Don't unload that onto Vanguard is all I'm saying.
Well, I don't see where the series having so many connections to TOS, after all Project Vanguard is supposed to be one the most important things happening in the Federation. So it's not really that supprising that some important people from the UFP would be involved. As for the Tholians, this is the first time they've been looked at in depth like this, so it's not like we've seen all of their stuff before.
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