Gearheads, advice me in my future choice!

[Emher]

As you guys know I'm quite the car guy and I love the new Camaro...but there's been a bit of a hitch. Was finally able to sit in a Camaro without that stupid headspace-stealing sunroof and yes I fit much better...but there's inch, maybe less, left between my head and the roof when the seat is as far down as it can go (no I will not lean the seat back a lot, I don't drive like that). And right next to the Camaro was a Challenger, and while the Mustang may pale a bit next to the Camaro, the Challenger held it's own. Plus it's a whole lot bigger inside...

Anyways I thought what I'd do is start this thread to talk over the pros and cons of the Camaro, the Challenger and the Mustang. Now, ignoring the obvious one that I can't yet begin to afford a new car yet I still think it's kinda fun to talk about it. So here we go:


Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 (manual)
http://www.chevrolet.com/vehicles/2010/camaro/overview.do

Pros:
-Styling, exterior and interior
-Very comfy seats
-Great gadgets for the trim I want
-Good fuel economy even with the V8
-Most amount of HP
-6-speed manual
-Indipendent Rear Suspension, generally thought to have the best and sportiest handling of the three

Cons:
-Lack of headspace seeing as I just barely fit in it
-Rear seats useless (already knew this though seing how tall I am)
-Visibility worst of the three (but still managable)
-Still going to be expensive for a while here in Sweden


Dodge Challenger R/T 2009 (manual)
http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/

Pros:
-Exterior styling, most retro of the three.
-Interior room
-Good gadgets, only really lacks USB that the Camaro has
-Good fuel economy even with the V8
-Huge trunk
-More HP then the Mustang
-Cheaper then Camaro at this trim
-6-speed manual
-Indipendent Rear Suspension, and probably the smoothest ride, but that might work against it...

Cons:
...since it's not a sports platform to begin with to there's probably going to be a lack of handling and won't be near as as sporty as the other two
-Interior styling, worst of the three. Even in manual that shifter needs to be replaced ASAP. And the steering wheel isn't that pretty.
-Seats while okay, a bit too narrow. This is fixable with a diet on my part though.
-Backseat is almost completly useless still, despite interior space.
-Less HP then the Camaro
-BIG and WIDE. Not a huge issue but will take some getting used to, and may be be a problem with garages and so on.


Ford Mustang GT 2010 (manual)
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/

It should be noted that where I to get a Mustang, it would probably be the 2005-09 version since I'm not really "feeling" the new styling.

Pros:
-Still better looking most cars on the road
-Okay interior
-Okay gadgets
-Cheap, lots of parts and extras
-While the new styling isn't quite my thing, the glass roof option is kinda cool
-Lightest and smallest of the three

Cons:
-Solid rear axle, so worst handling of the three. But the low weight might help some of that.
-Least amount of HP
-While not common, definetly more common then the Camaro and Challenger around here
-Worst seats of the three, but better ones are an option.
-"Only" a 5-speed manual, could probably live with that.
-While technically the worst fuel economy, it's not by much.
-Not really a color on it that I really like, but that's fixable with a piant job.



Should be added that sportyness and handling matters a bit to me after driving A LOT in my Saab with sports trim for the last few years.

Feel free to help me out with opinions and voting but please no brandbashing in any direction, and DO NOT turn this intro a thread about autobailouts. If I wanted that I would have started this thread at a car forum.


Thanks in advance for your opinions

 

[Roger Wilco]

Just going by looks (and really, doesn't that matter most in a car like that? ), the Camaro is far ahead. The Mustang has been around for a while and doesn't get any prettier, and the Challenger looks just plain boring imo.

 

[Tomato]

I love the camaro!! My friend also works in the paint shop there.

Here's a review on the dodge challenger on top gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzJn0p6MM8

They also did this amazing muscle car driving on salt mines thing. You should watch that too. For some challenger reviews. they are quite funny.

 

[Emher]

Love that you bring that up Tomato, I must've seen that particular episode about five times now I would love for them to do the comparison that this particular thread does, but I'll settle for a proper Camaro review.

 

[zephramc]

I can't speak from personal experience, but based off articles in Car & Driver and Road & Track the 2010 Mustang actually outperforms the Camaro and Challenger in regard to handling even with it's solid rear axle.

You can read comparisons in the following links (surprisingly, C&D didn't declare a BMW the winner of the Camaro/Challenger/Mustang shootout)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8313&page_number=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...gt_2009_dodge_challenger_r_t-comparison_tests

All that being said, I'd choose the Camaro SS. While I don't care for the interior, the car has a gorgeous exterior. More than that however, the Camaro's the better car in regard to performance. While the Mustang may turn slightly better numbers in a slalom or on the skidpad, they're almost meaningless on the street when compared to the Camaro. Can you really tell (you not a machine) that you're doing .89g or .92g on a skidpad. Can you really tell that the car completed the slalom at 69.2mph and not 68.9mph.

Again it's all meanless. What you will be able to tell (feel actually) is the 408 lb-ft of torque pinning you to the seat when you launch it. You will be able to feel the car's 422 horses as it nails the 1/4 mile in 13 seconds. And you won't be able to stop smiling as you look at the car's beautiful lines or after you rape Holdfast's Audi S4 in a race.

Holdfast, I only pick on you as you probably currently own the quickest car in this forum.

 

[Tomato]

Love that you bring that up Tomato, I must've seen that particular episode about five times now I would love for them to do the comparison that this particular thread does, but I'll settle for a proper Camaro review.

For all the joking aside I think top gear does a great job or reviewing cars. I mean they actually rip apart the cars and point out little annoying things that you feel people should pick up on. Like how the challenger does a bad job in handling corners. Or the plasticyness of the Corvette.

edit: have you considered joining true delta to see what type of mileage / repairs these cars get.

 

[Warp Coil]

I have to say that I am in love with the Camaro, and it would get my vote based purely on aesthetics. However, you don't seem terribly happy with any of the cars based on your pro/con list above. The Camaro lacks the head space you need and has bad visibility. The Challenger seems too big and has a bad interior. I'm getting the vibe that you're entirely uninterested in the Mustang. I haven't driven any of them for myself so I can't really rank them in a practical, realistic way.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I am, first and foremost, a Chevy guy. I own a 79 Camaro which I am currently rebuilding, however I chose the Challenger because of all the cars you mentioned, that's the one that "looks" like the muscle car it's supposed to be. That's exactly the reason why I can't stand the new Charger. It's a good looking car, but looks nothing like its namesake. It would make for a fantastic vehicle to me if it was called something else. Yes, the Mustang does look classic, but I never liked Ford's to begin with. They're all powerful cars. In the end, to me it comes down to aesthetics and the Challenger's got it.

 

[backstept]

I'd get the camaro if the mustang looked like this:


and I'd get the mustang if the camaro looked like this:
aww lookit that fishface
so cute

you have to ask yourself "Can I live with it?"
recently I was at the dealer and I sat in a brand new 370Z, and while it looks great, and delivers great performance, I felt like I might break something, and I would dread taking it to the mall and risk getting dents in the doors in the parking lot, or risk becoming OCD about wiping bugs off the front etc
how would you feel about sitting in traffic? driving to work, getting groceries, etc

 

[Tomato]

^

Funny you mention that backstept. I watched a top gear episode (my new favourite show) And it showed living with a supercar. I mean those things can't even go down a parking lot without scratching everything up. But that is something.

When I bought my civic I knew that if I get a scratch, get the interior messy I couldn't care less. Because it was a civic!!!

 

[Emher]

Love that you bring that up Tomato, I must've seen that particular episode about five times now I would love for them to do the comparison that this particular thread does, but I'll settle for a proper Camaro review.

For all the joking aside I think top gear does a great job or reviewing cars. I mean they actually rip apart the cars and point out little annoying things that you feel people should pick up on. Like how the challenger does a bad job in handling corners. Or the plasticyness of the Corvette.

edit: have you considered joining true delta to see what type of mileage / repairs these cars get.

One thing that Top Gear does also is try to tell you how a car really feels like, something that's not that easy to convey.

As for the mileage, I know that already and it's only slightly more then my current car. Repairs is hard to tell seeing as two of them are still quite new.

I have to say that I am in love with the Camaro, and it would get my vote based purely on aesthetics. However, you don't seem terribly happy with any of the cars based on your pro/con list above. The Camaro lacks the head space you need and has bad visibility. The Challenger seems too big and has a bad interior. I'm getting the vibe that you're entirely uninterested in the Mustang. I haven't driven any of them for myself so I can't really rank them in a practical, realistic way.

Well I was trying to put together an honest critical list. Some of the things, like the bad visibility I could get used to, but the headroom is a genuine concern. My dad insists that I'll still be fine with that though.

I'm not actually unintrested in the Mustang, and where the other two not around that would be my choice. As it is it's still kinda common around here and where I to get one I'd go somewhere in the direction of the 2008 Bullitt Mustang with it's clean looks.

you have to ask yourself "Can I live with it?"
recently I was at the dealer and I sat in a brand new 370Z, and while it looks great, and delivers great performance, I felt like I might break something, and I would dread taking it to the mall and risk getting dents in the doors in the parking lot, or risk becoming OCD about wiping bugs off the front etc
how would you feel about sitting in traffic? driving to work, getting groceries, etc

I kinda obsess about stuff like that in my car is it is, and that's long since past it's "new" state Sitting in traffic I do quite fine with with my current manual, I live in a smaller city and don't venture that often into Stockholm in rush hour. Driving to work would go okay even if I had my current job and groceries I don't need huge space for.

My plan is getting a new car when I have the money and keeping my current one as a more practical one to haul big stuff in if needed and as a winter car, since currently the only thing I'm paying on my car is gas and taxes.

 

[Mr Awe]

you have to ask yourself "Can I live with it?"
recently I was at the dealer and I sat in a brand new 370Z, and while it looks great, and delivers great performance, I felt like I might break something, and I would dread taking it to the mall and risk getting dents in the doors in the parking lot, or risk becoming OCD about wiping bugs off the front etc
how would you feel about sitting in traffic? driving to work, getting groceries, etc

I have a 350Z and I don't worry about any of those things? Not sure why you would? A friend had the 350Z but upgraded to a 370Z and says it's even better. He's 6 foot tall but doesn't have a height problem with it. Not sure if it would work for Emher or not?

Mr Awe

 

[Emher]

^I'm 6'3" with a LONG torso so many cars are a problem for me. Besides I want a muscle car, and the 350Z doesn't fit the bill.

 

[Tomato]

^I'm 6'3" with a LONG torso so many cars are a problem for me. Besides I want a muscle car, and the 350Z doesn't fit the bill.

yeah I was in your camp in Feb. I was comparing Mustang or Civic coup. American muscle or Japanese.... Hmmm Japanese blah.. I eneded going with the rice rocket because I wanted better mileage and believe it or not I stood around a ford dealership for half an hour and no one helped me.

I'm asian BTW and I swear me driving a mustang would shatter stereotypes everywhere. Unfortunately I just reinforce them now.

 

[Emher]

^Sucks about the dealership there. I don't gotta worry about that though, got a great dealership eyed that deals in imported vehicles such as all the three in this thread.

And yeah another reason I'm getting an american car is because it's so atypical for around here. Around here if you're a young guy you either drive a crappy old modded Volvo or a rice rocket. Or a you don't care about cars and drives whatever. I want to be different.

That being said the European version of the Civic is a nice little car...but not what I'm looking for.

 

[Mr Awe]

^I'm 6'3" with a LONG torso so many cars are a problem for me. Besides I want a muscle car, and the 350Z doesn't fit the bill.

True, it's not really a muscle car, more of a sports car. Great accelaration and handling. Personally, I like the more sleek look than the chunky muscle car look. Different preferences.

Mr Awe

 

[Emher]

It's not that I don't like sports cars, it's that my heart lives with muscle cars. My dad loves them too and worked on them as a hobby until he couldn't afford to anymore and hasn't had the time to pick the habit up when times got better.

Besides I'm so damned huge I can't fit in most sports cars.

 

[Mr Awe]

^^ It's good to be sure that you know what you want before you buy it! Sounds like you do!

 

[Niorah]

I adore the Mustang ('05 - '09). I think it's one of the best looking cars out there, but let's face it: if you're not going for a great tuned Shelby GT 500, pretty much everything about it performance-wise sucks.

So yeah, stick to your dream and get a Camaro, you'll love it, you'll have a lot of fun with it and it'll give you memories to last a lifetime. Not to mention that if after years of being a "2010 Camaro craving geek" you change your mind and buy something, -anything- else, you'll probably have a very annoying string of "What if... I should have... If only I had..." going around in your head. That is unless you have had a dreadful experience the first time you got into the Camaro and that managed to actually shatter your dream to begin with.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Yoda]

I voted Camaro. The Mustang is kind of a cliche, in San Diego there's an endless stream of douchebags that drive them. At least with the Camaro you're potentially on the leading edge of the new douchebag trend