Old "Phoenix" Novels

[KeepOnTrekking]

Though I do have to admit, it wasn't till I read a thread (either here or trekweb or maybe a modelmaking forum) about PRICE that I ever 'got' the notion that the KirkBashing session of Omne's was intended to stand in for Kirk orally copulating Omne.

Ok, morbid curiously got the best of me so I reread The Price of the Phoenix last night but I can honestly say that I didn't feel anything like that from my point of view.

I just saw it as the "alpha male" thing they were talking about and Omne trying to "break Kirk and make him cry" type of macho submission to prove that he's "superior" to Kirk.

After rereading it, there's a LOT more psychobabble and repetitve talking than I remembered. I read once that The Price of the Phoenix was originally written as a short story for one of Bantam's New Voyages books but they decided to expand it to novel length. In my own opinion, I think they'd been better off leaving it as a short story. This novel came across to me like The Empath. A simple story with limited sets that focused on character interplay. By shortening it down from a novel, a lot of the wordiness and repetition could have been cut out and strengthen the character interplay and gave it some momentum that it needs. It would have made a great episode on TOS but I don't know about a movie.

 

[Christopher]

There was indeed a line in there where Omne is forcing Kirk down to his knees in front of him, pushing his head down, and if you read between the lines it definitely seems to be implying an attempted oral rape.

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

Ok, i don't know how much I can legally quote here but paraphrasing:

Omne slaps Kirk down.
Kirk gets up and launches a feint and leap.
Omne grabs him in midair and puts him in a bear hug where Kirk's thigh gets injured. Kirk brings his jaw down on Omne's shoulder near the nerve pinch point and brings his knee up to Omne's crotch but doesn't managed to fully connect with the crotch.

Omne staggers and Kirk goes down to his knees unable to stand. More talk. Kirk sits on his heels. Kirk comes to his knees again and begs for Spock and bows his head.

Omne rips Kirk's head up and back. Omne demands that Kirk now beg for himself and forces Kirk's head down and forward.
I always assumed this to be a position of submission and begging. If I had to nitpick, Omne pulled Kirk's head up and back so it seems he would more likely pull Kirk's head forward again and back down into submission rather than the "down and forward" movement.

Kirk's still tensed up in his neck resisting and Omne keeps forcing his head "down and forward" so Kirk relaxes and lets Omne's own strength carry Kirk's head forward into Omne's crotch and deliver the blow (no pun intended) that Kirk's knee wasn't able to deliver.

I guess if you wanted to interpret it in a sexual way you could but I've never saw until now. I still prefer to interpret it in a non-sexual way but each to their own. As Scotty once said to Chekov: "Everybody's entitled to an opinion."
For anyone who has a copy of The Price of the Phoenix, the scene with the action in question is on page 54. I'm willing to admit I may be wrong but I'd love to hear more opinions from everyone. For me, the fun of Trek is the incredible diversity of opinions that the fans come away with from watching/reading the same stories. I'm always learning new things!!

 

[Therin of Andor]

The story goes that, in the 70s and 80s, one could find on the K/S fanzine black market, additional, raunchier chapters to complement all four Marshak & Culbreath novels.

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

Interesting, Therin. Do you know if those complementary stories were written by the original authors or by other fans. I'm making an assumption that it wasn't by the original authors. But who knows? Anybody?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Interesting, Therin. Do you know if those complementary stories were written by the original authors or by other fans. I'm making an assumption that it wasn't by the original authors. But who knows? Anybody?

The rumour was that it was M&C themselves, but who'd ever know with K/S stuff? IIRC, the first book was written as K/S, then cleaned up for Bantam. Ditto Della Van Hise's novel for Pocket.

At least one of M&C really did get her start as a professional writer via K/S fanfic and regular ST fanfic, as did a number of other early ST writers. The K/S phenomenon, and fanfic in general, is briefly discussed in Marshak's portions of "Star Trek Lives!"

 

[Christopher]

Kirk's still tensed up in his neck resisting and Omne keeps forcing his head "down and forward" so Kirk relaxes and lets Omne's own strength carry Kirk's head forward into Omne's crotch and deliver the blow (no pun intended) that Kirk's knee wasn't able to deliver.

Exactly. That tells you that Omne was forcing Kirk's head toward his crotch.

I guess if you wanted to interpret it in a sexual way you could but I've never saw until now. I still prefer to interpret it in a non-sexual way but each to their own.

Just about everything in the Marshak-Culbreath books, particularly TPotP, is loaded with sexual subtext. It's all about sex and power. And given Marshak & Culbreath's heavy involvement in the fanfic community, including the K/S community, I can't believe they weren't at least aware of the possible sexual reading of that scene. Of course it was written so that you could read it as a strictly nonsexual power dynamic -- otherwise it would never have gotten into print in a mainstream novel. That's why it's called subtext -- because it's a hidden interpretation of a deliberately ambiguous passage. Was it intended to be readable in a non-sexual way? Of course. But was it intended to be readable in a sexual way as well? I'd be staggered if it wasn't.

 

[flandry84]

The idea of this malevolent superbeing(Omne)and his attempt to subvert the Federation by besting Starfleets best is a great premise but IMO the rather muddy plotting lets the book down badly.The whole K/S undertone(kinda obvious)just seems overwrought and the subplot with the Romulan commander and "pseudo Kirk" is a distraction.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

When Susan was dismissed from her position, the day after after Gene's death...

It didn't actually take that long to get her off the lot.

 

[flandry84]

Somebody said that William Shatner considered these books good enough to base an ST movie on..
Well, given the intense,"bottle" nature of the books,can you imagine the potential number of close-up's Shatner would have had?
And seeing as the bridge crew are largely absent during the story,cue another Takei/Doohan bitchfest.

Although the scene described above,Omne grabbing Kirk's hair, might have proven embarrassing for Shatner.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Although the scene described above,Omne grabbing Kirk's hair, might have proven embarrassing for Shatner.

More embarrassing than playing horsie in "Plato's Stepchildren"? The one episode my Dad insisted on watching with me, from beginning to end, to find out why I loved ST so much?

 

[Christopher]

^I think there was a toupee joke implied there. Shatner's been game for a lot of things onscreen, but revealing his true hairline has never been among them.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Shatner's been game for a lot of things onscreen, but revealing his true hairline has never been among them.

Actually, the underwater "freeing the whales" scene in ST IV was requested by Shatner to show off the power of his new "undetectable, even underwater" hair weaving!

 

[Steve Roby]

Somebody said that William Shatner considered these books good enough to base an ST movie on..

He worked with the authors of the Phoenix books on the rather odd book Shatner: Where No Man. Might have just been saying something nice about the people he was working with.

 

[trevanian]

Somebody said that William Shatner considered these books good enough to base an ST movie on..

He worked with the authors of the Phoenix books on the rather odd book Shatner: Where No Man. Might have just been saying something nice about the people he was working with.

They were tight with him for awhile; they wrote the liner notes for his double album a couple years earlier ... I really think he was very taken with their notions (though there's no way he could have gotten into the shape necessary for all the nudity and teeny-tiny wear in those books.)

The multiface portrait of Kirk on the cover of PRICE is probably one of the two or three best images I've ever seen of Shat as Kirk.

 

[ClayinCA]

The multiface portrait of Kirk on the cover of PRICE is probably one of the two or three best images I've ever seen of Shat as Kirk.

Agreed absolutely! Is that another Bob Larkin cover?

 

[Daddy Todd]

The multiface portrait of Kirk on the cover of PRICE is probably one of the two or three best images I've ever seen of Shat as Kirk.

Agreed absolutely! Is that another Bob Larkin cover?

I don't think so, it's not quite what I would think of as Larkin's style. But as it's not signed nor credited, I can't say for sure who did it.