Fair enough if it keeps him off your favorites list, though it shouldn't diminish anyone's ability to appreciate his other, more positive aspects as a man and a leader.
Who is your all time favorite President of the U.S. (not a poll)
- Thread starter DarkHelmet
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While slavery is obviously inexcusable, Jefferson lived in a different world than we do. He was opposed to slavery and attempted to end it-- I believe it was his very first act as an elected official in Virginia-- but he was roundly shouted down. He also knew the dangers of freeing the slave population suddenly and completely. His views on Blacks were based on observation of people in bondage and evolved over time. As for his own slaves, he considered them family and allowed them education. The woman he spent most of his life with was a "slave" who he could not marry or acknowledge a relationship with because of prevailing social customs. Naturally, a lot of this looks dubious in retrospect-- in large part due to socially progressive trends that are based on Jefferson's beliefs-- and he himself no doubt would have done various things differently if given the chance. He was a great man who was imperfect and made mistakes, but he did what he thought was right at the time and helped to create the greatest civilization the world has seen so far. So we cut him a little slack.
^Great post. You have to view people through the prism of the times they lived in along with the content of their character. On those grounds, Jefferson was good man and a great political thinker. He certainly did more to try to end slavery than most of his contemporaries.
Indeed
. You are quite right, we must be careful before condemning people simply for living where and when they did, and facing the pressures and societal norms they did. And we should recognise the great good they did.
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Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
Washington was also a slave holder. Jackson was a huge racist against Native Americans.
Yeah, but no one likes Jackson. He's like the Nixon of the 1800s.
Abraham Lincoln. He faced bigger crises, tougher decisions and more outright hatred than any president, took full responsibility and was overwhelmingly right. Brilliant as a politician and statesman, and often a better strategist than his generals.
Jefferson's conflict (or hypocrisy) on slavery was symptomatic of the institution's insidious effect on the country, and he knew it. Still a great president.
I'm 39 and USA-ian. In my lifetime, there's not much to chose from. I don't really like any of them, but we'll see about Obama.
--Justin
Jefferson's conflict (or hypocrisy) on slavery was symptomatic of the institution's insidious effect on the country, and he knew it. Still a great president.
I'm 39 and USA-ian. In my lifetime, there's not much to chose from. I don't really like any of them, but we'll see about Obama.
--Justin
Nicely said. You explained it much better than I did.
---George Washington was convinced by others, and came to believe, that he was the only real choise. It was Washington who decided the president wouldn't be call "your majesty" or "your lordship". I don't believe he wanted power.
Both Coolige and Truman came in through the vice-presidents office, neither wanted the top job.
--- Backing Chiang Kai-Shek didn't create Meo and Communist Red China (if that's what you meant), Truman did help shape Red China.
--Without Wilson the revolution still would of happened, perhaps if Wilson had been a bit more pushy following the end of WW I, he might of prevented the formation of the third reich.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
Truman ignored what was going on in China, and didn't put a lot of pressure on Chiang. Truman threw money at the problem but didn't get involved. Wilson sent a huge army force into Russia to free the Czechs. They nearly succeeded in overthrowing the Reds but by the time they got that close, WWI was coming to an end and Wilson gave up.
Indeed
Thanks, guys. Much appreciated.Nicely said. You explained it much better than I did.
Well said, old man.
Ronald Reagan and I'm a Democrat.
Well, We Americans have been lucky to have had a number of great leaders in our short history.
I like Truman, FDR and Lincoln a lot.
I Greatly Respect Teddy Roosevelt as a man, as I also greatly admire Ronald Reagan, even though I don't agree with some of thier policies. Reagan, in fact, has the exact public bearing a president should aim for. Strong and charasmatic.
In my own lifetime (born 1987) I feel Clinton has been the best president. I do say that as a liberal, so it's not a great contest for me.
I'm very satisfied with Obama so far, but we can't even begin to think of him in this sort of way for several years.
I like Truman, FDR and Lincoln a lot.
I Greatly Respect Teddy Roosevelt as a man, as I also greatly admire Ronald Reagan, even though I don't agree with some of thier policies. Reagan, in fact, has the exact public bearing a president should aim for. Strong and charasmatic.
In my own lifetime (born 1987) I feel Clinton has been the best president. I do say that as a liberal, so it's not a great contest for me.
I'm very satisfied with Obama so far, but we can't even begin to think of him in this sort of way for several years.
Supreme Admiral
Captain
What a great discussion, everyone. Thus far, my favorite presidents are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Regan, Bill Clinton. They’re my favorite presidents of all times.
Mind you, I’m 24 years old, and I have a great respect for Bill Clinton, because he’s signed a many good laws during my lifetime. He was at nearing of being removing from the power, due to the scandal that he had with Monica Lewinsky. Bill Clinton was struggled to persuaded us that he didn’t have sex with Monica Lewinsky, from the face of his, it was hard to tell.
I can never forget that scandal while I heard this from my former school during of that teen years. I thought to myself that he would never do this, but do this to americans people itself. I’m very glad that he stayed on the power for two more years.
I wish that Monica Lewinsky hadn’t work for him where she was white house intern. Then none of this would have happening as scandal emerged in the past. It was a great scandal I ever remembered in my lifetime. There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. I said enough now.
Mind you, I’m 24 years old, and I have a great respect for Bill Clinton, because he’s signed a many good laws during my lifetime. He was at nearing of being removing from the power, due to the scandal that he had with Monica Lewinsky. Bill Clinton was struggled to persuaded us that he didn’t have sex with Monica Lewinsky, from the face of his, it was hard to tell.
I can never forget that scandal while I heard this from my former school during of that teen years. I thought to myself that he would never do this, but do this to americans people itself. I’m very glad that he stayed on the power for two more years.
I wish that Monica Lewinsky hadn’t work for him where she was white house intern. Then none of this would have happening as scandal emerged in the past. It was a great scandal I ever remembered in my lifetime. There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. I said enough now.
Obviously not impossible, Washington became one, didn't he?
But, I guess the ideal president is impossible, yes.
Sometimes, power is given to them even though they didn't run, like vice-presidents: A. Johnson, L. Johnson, Ford, etc...
LBJ, for example, would never have become president, given his age and JFK's popularity. And LBJ didn't technically run either. He just unexpectedly ended up with it.
(though I'm not a big fan of his)
About Lincoln. I don't mean to contradict you, but I've heard the other side of the Lincoln medallion too.
He inherited a crisis from Buchanan, but didn't he worsen it by using the military against states that had every right to leave the Union?
And overwhelmingly right? Wasn't his use of the military proven unconstitutional?
Just curious, and wondering out loud, is all.
TOP 4 (I'm 26 for what it's worth.)
1. Thomas Jefferson. He was a hypocrite for owning slaves but that doesn't detract from the rightness of his philosophy that all men are created equal. (There's a t-shirt I've been meaning to get. It has a picture of Jefferson on it with the quote, "I was a libertarian before it was cool.")
2. George Washington. A humble man who set many traditional precedents for the Presidency, limiting its power. (IIRC, only the 2 Roosevelts even dared to break Washington's traditional 2-term limit.)
3. Ronald Reagan. "In this time of crisis, government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem." One of the few 20th century Presidents who tried to stem the tide of government expansion.
4. William Henry Harrison. He died 30 days after taking office. Many others should have followed his example.
Honorable mention: Bill Clinton. I hardly agreed with any of his policies but darned if he wasn't fun!
1. Thomas Jefferson. He was a hypocrite for owning slaves but that doesn't detract from the rightness of his philosophy that all men are created equal. (There's a t-shirt I've been meaning to get. It has a picture of Jefferson on it with the quote, "I was a libertarian before it was cool.")
2. George Washington. A humble man who set many traditional precedents for the Presidency, limiting its power. (IIRC, only the 2 Roosevelts even dared to break Washington's traditional 2-term limit.)
3. Ronald Reagan. "In this time of crisis, government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem." One of the few 20th century Presidents who tried to stem the tide of government expansion.
4. William Henry Harrison. He died 30 days after taking office. Many others should have followed his example.
Honorable mention: Bill Clinton. I hardly agreed with any of his policies but darned if he wasn't fun!
Thank you very much.
Lincoln's primary goal was to preserve the Union, not end slavery; in that, he obviously failed. Not that he didn't want to end slavery, but he did say that given a choice between preserving the Union and ending slavery, he'd take preserving the Union. And there was nothing in the Constitution prohibiting States from leaving the Union, so they did have the Right to do so by default.About Lincoln. I don't mean to contradict you, but I've heard the other side of the Lincoln medallion too.
He inherited a crisis from Buchanan, but didn't he worsen it by using the military against states that had every right to leave the Union?
And overwhelmingly right? Wasn't his use of the military proven unconstitutional?
Just curious, and wondering out loud, is all.
I like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt more for their 'folk hero' status than for their presidential accomplishments
'I like Ike' for the Interstate Highway System which allowed people to commute longer distances, and make road trips easier, not to mention the boom of the trucking industry.
the IHS was probably one of the biggest reasons for the huge growth of the American economy in the last 60 years
'I like Ike' for the Interstate Highway System which allowed people to commute longer distances, and make road trips easier, not to mention the boom of the trucking industry.
the IHS was probably one of the biggest reasons for the huge growth of the American economy in the last 60 years
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