Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

[Seven of Five]

You can't leave that line for Kosh, if for no other reason than by this time there are no more Vorlons left. Plus, the perception of the Vorlons as a whole is considerably different. Kosh my have been the exception, but with Crusade it was time to set itself apart from the original show a bit more.

I just thought that Galen saying the line was going over old ground, that was more interesting before. If Crusade wanted to set itself apart more it should have tried something different. It's only a small thing though...

Then again I rather enjoy a character who says "I have no surviving enemies. At all."

Totally agree! I love Galen. An episode with Galen in makes it about 50% more interesting. Him, Dureena and Max were probably my favourites from the short run.

 

[Mr Light]

My major issue with Crusade was the directly recycled dialogue from B5. It convinced me that JMS was a one trick pony only capable of telling the same story over and over again. I don't feel that way as much anymore but there are some redos in there. Rising Stars and Amazing Spider-Man also bore this out. I haven't read Thor yet.

 

[tomalak301]

^You know, before I actually found out who it was, I thought it was Kosh who did the "Who are you, Who do you serve" opening intro. Then in the first episode, you had "And so it begins" and it was Galen who did everything and not Kosh. I don't mind that since one is a spin off of another, but I do have to wonder if JMS was a great writer (And Babylon 5 proved this), why is dialog repeated in Crusade and not being allowed to be kind of it's own animal.

 

[Reverend]

I rather think in this particular case the "recycling" was intentional, given the nature of the technomages as some of the last custodians of "first one" knowledge.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: Crusade

The Long Road

I'm not sure if watching an episode of this is a good idea at 12:30 in the morning. I kinda fell asleep a bit, but did get pretty much all of it. Interesting episode, but great stuff on the Technomage backstory. I liked Alwyn and was wondering if the real life actor was related to the guy who plays Galen, kinda like a Father and son kind of thing. Other than that, it was run of the mill stuff, but it was pretty good.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Re: Crusade

The Long Road

I'm not sure if watching an episode of this is a good idea at 12:30 in the morning. I kinda fell asleep a bit, but did get pretty much all of it. Interesting episode, but great stuff on the Technomage backstory. I liked Alwyn and was wondering if the real life actor was related to the guy who plays Galen, kinda like a Father and son kind of thing. Other than that, it was run of the mill stuff, but it was pretty good.

Yes, Edward Woodward (who played Alwyn) is Peter Woodward's father.

 

[Jan]

.... but I do have to wonder if JMS was a great writer (And Babylon 5 proved this), why is dialog repeated in Crusade and not being allowed to be kind of it's own animal.

Because "And so it begins" is an extremely common phrase? Just for fun, I googled it and got 111,000 hits. It's just a rather portentious way of trying to tell people that something important is happening.

I rather think in this particular case the "recycling" was intentional, given the nature of the technomages as some of the last custodians of "first one" knowledge.

Sometimes JMS would like to give one impression while the reverse might actually be true, too. "And so it begins" is fixed in the fan mind as a Kosh quote (even though Delenn said it first in "The Parliament of Dreams") so chances are that fans will react to Galen favorably as they did to Kosh. Except that

Spoiler: Techno-Mage secrets

we learn in the Techn-Mage trilogy that the mages have ties to the Shadows, not the Vorlons.

I liked Alwyn and was wondering if the real life actor was related to the guy who plays Galen, kinda like a Father and son kind of thing.

The actor who played Alwyn is Peter Woodward's real father, Edward Woodward.

Jan

 

[Reverend]

I rather think in this particular case the "recycling" was intentional, given the nature of the technomages as some of the last custodians of "first one" knowledge.

Sometimes JMS would like to give one impression while the reverse might actually be true, too. "And so it begins" is fixed in the fan mind as a Kosh quote (even though Delenn said it first in "The Parliament of Dreams") so chances are that fans will react to Galen favorably as they did to Kosh. Except that

Spoiler: Techno-Mage secrets

we learn in the Techn-Mage trilogy that the mages have ties to the Shadows, not the Vorlons.

Jan

Which is why I said "first one" knowledge.
They all seam to know the questions and their significance, even if a few of them decided some are more significant than others.

 

[Forbin]

My major issue with Crusade was the directly recycled dialogue from B5. It convinced me that JMS was a one trick pony only capable of telling the same story over and over again. I don't feel that way as much anymore but there are some redos in there. Rising Stars and Amazing Spider-Man also bore this out. I haven't read Thor yet.

"My father once told me, never start a fight, but always finish it."

It's tattoed on the inside of joe's eyelids, I think.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

My major issue with Crusade was the directly recycled dialogue from B5. It convinced me that JMS was a one trick pony only capable of telling the same story over and over again. I don't feel that way as much anymore but there are some redos in there. Rising Stars and Amazing Spider-Man also bore this out. I haven't read Thor yet.

"My father once told me, never start a fight, but always finish it."

It's tattoed on the inside of joe's eyelids, I think.

That line is also spoken in Changeling.

 

[Lindley]

There's a bit about "the future waiting to be born" in Jeremiah, too.

 

[Forbin]

My major issue with Crusade was the directly recycled dialogue from B5. It convinced me that JMS was a one trick pony only capable of telling the same story over and over again. I don't feel that way as much anymore but there are some redos in there. Rising Stars and Amazing Spider-Man also bore this out. I haven't read Thor yet.

"My father once told me, never start a fight, but always finish it."

It's tattoed on the inside of joe's eyelids, I think.

That line is also spoken in Changeling.

I couldn't remember the name of the film, but I saw that in the trailer. I had to roll my eyes. He probably used it in his Spidey run too "Uncle Ben once told me...", but I'm not sure.

 

[Mr Light]

Oh yes, I forgot about Jeremiah, another prime example of recycled material. Not that I don't have oodles of respect for the man, he's my personal hero I hope to emulate some day.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: Crusade

The Well of Forever

Of the three I've seen so far, I think this one is my favorite. There were a lot of nice little character moments and it felt like everyone played a role in one way or another. Nice to see more of Max (Who after this episode I'm starting to like some, but need to see more of him) and Matheson got some good stuff too with Mr. Jones. Also enjoyed hearing some fall out from the telepath story with the abolision of Psi Corps, but some of the actions from Jones; descrimination, probing deep into the mind, made me think that this new agency was worse.

As for the Well of Forever, it was interesting. Loved the eulogy for Isabelle, and the Piano only score that went with it. Also, the ending wrapping up some lose ends was good too. I think the only thing I didn't like was the ambiguity and the philosophical nature of the whole everyone has questions motif. Maybe I was just a bit confused by it, but it kinda reminded me of the philosophical stuff from Matrix Reloaded.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: Crusade

Path of Sorrows

I was wrong. This episode is the best episode I've seen so far. So much great backstory and putting things together in this one that it was just really intreuging from start to finish. We find out the whole story about Gideon and how he was left drifting in space (That ship that attacked looked like a Shadow Ship, but it was a very different design than the ones we've seen. I have to wonder what kind of ship it was) and then Matheson betraying the corps. The last two episodes have done a great job building on this universe and while I said I would look at Crusade on it's own terms, building on stuff we already know is always a plus.

Interesting stuff with Galen, even though I'm getting a bit tired of seeing him. I want to see Max, and where is the good Doctor. I don't think she's been there since the first episode. As for the continuity of the show, I could definitely tell these are out of order. We go from one episode Galen spreading Isabelle's remains on the well of Forever, to now him getting a message (Possibly from her but who knows) about designs and gods and stuff like that. It will be nice to see where the show goes with that point.

 

[Jan]

Re: Crusade

Path of Sorrows

I was wrong. This episode is the best episode I've seen so far. So much great backstory and putting things together in this one that it was just really intreuging from start to finish.

"The Long Road" and "The Path of Sorrows" were my first introductions to Crusade when JMS brought the two not-quite-finished episodes to a con in Orlando. He said that TNT *hated* 'Path' because "Nobody wants all that backstory and flashbacks." I remember thinking how surprised that exec must have been at the success of Lost and its dependence on backstory and flashbacks.

Jan

 

[chrisspringob]

The overall quality of the "gray uniform" episodes is better than the overall quality of the "black uniform" eps, however I'd still rate "Well of Forever" and "Path of Sorrows" as two of my three favorites. (The third of my three favorites being "The Needs of Earth".)

 

[Reverend]

Also enjoyed hearing some fall out from the telepath story with the abolision of Psi Corps, but some of the actions from Jones; descrimination, probing deep into the mind, made me think that this new agency was worse.

The sort of behaviour and thinking that the Psi Corps engrained in the telepaths it indoctrinated doesn't go away easily. Even though the Corps itself is gone, the vast majority of the people who were in it are still there and it'll be a few generations before all the vestiges can possibly be purged.
Also consider that "Mr. Jones" and those like him have to be P-12s, given their job description, which means they are most likely former Psi Cops and all that that implies. It's not surprising that at least some of them will try and slide things back to the way they were.

(That ship that attacked looked like a Shadow Ship, but it was a very different design than the ones we've seen. I have to wonder what kind of ship it was)

There is an answer to that question, but I'll save you the suspense and say that you won't find it in any of the filmed episodes. It is however directly addressed in two episodes that were scripted but never filmed before the plug was pulled. Remind us after you've finished with the DVDs and I'm sure either Jan or myself will give you a brief run-down.

Interesting stuff with Galen, even though I'm getting a bit tired of seeing him. I want to see Max, and where is the good Doctor. I don't think she's been there since the first episode.

That's another artefact of the order being messed with. Galen's appearances were supposed to be sprinkled throughout the season, but because of the re-ordering most of them got bunched up together, leaving a big gap with no Galen at all.

"The Long Road" and "The Path of Sorrows" were my first introductions to Crusade when JMS brought the two not-quite-finished episodes to a con in Orlando. He said that TNT *hated* 'Path' because "Nobody wants all that backstory and flashbacks." I remember thinking how surprised that exec must have been at the success of Lost and its dependence on backstory and flashbacks.

Jan

I think it's safe to say that there are microbes living by volcanic vents in the seabed that have more informed opinions of what makes for good entertainment than most TV execs. On the other had, given that it appears pretty clear that TNT were being intentionally difficult, I wouldn't take any note they gave at face value.

 

[Mal]

Re: Crusade

Path of Sorrows

Matheson betraying the corps.

Interesting stuff with Galen

can't recommend The Psi-Corp Trilogy and the Technomage Triology enough.

 

[Seven of Five]

I just got hold of the Psi-Corps trilogy. Also have 2 of 3 of Legion of Fire, and intend to get the Technomage one too. Looking forward to reading them all - it will be nice to get some answers to some of the few lingering questions left.