Vulcans - Those dumb[*bleep*] deserve to be extinct!

[BillJ]

Okay, I don't have the comic and didn't remember that part. It does seem a bit awkward, doesn't it?

Didn't word it correctly... Nero said that at the end of the actual movie. When he's choking Kirk.

 

[Greg Cox]

I think it's reasonable that Nero would have heard of Kirk and Spock. They were legendary historical figures by his era, who had frequently clashed with the Romulan Empire, helped form the Federation's alliance with the Klingons, and saved countless planets and civilizations throughout the quadrant.

Heck, I know that John F. Kennedy served on PT-109 and that was before I was born.

 

[BillJ]

I think it's reasonable that Nero would have heard of Kirk and Spock. They were legendary historical figures by his era, who had frequently clashed with the Romulan Empire, helped form the Federation's alliance with the Klingons, and saved countless planets and civilizations throughout the quadrant.

Heck, I know that John F. Kennedy served on PT-109 and that was before I was born.

Personally I think it's a stretch. To know the dates that Spock served aboard the Enterprise and to be able to pick up that it was the Enterprise at such an extreme distance. All this from a Romulan miner?

Agree to disagree...

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Vulcans - Those dumbfucks deserve to be extinct!

Proving that pure science, order, and logic can't protect you from the chaos of the universe... a lesson that has always driven Star Trek story lines.

Uh, what Star Trek have you been watching? Star Trek's overall theme is the opposite - that despite all the violence, chaos, and occasional dirty dealings needed to keep all the shit together, the cosmos is ultimately a controllable place that can be conquered via a Kirkian combination of guts, smarts, determination, common sense, compassion, and yes, science & logic & rationalism & all that good stuff. Even dark and nasty DS9 supported that theme, despite all the messiness; TNG certainly did.

I disagree, and your sarcasm is unwarranted. The TREK crews have always heroically faced these chaotic and dangerous situations, If only to escape by the skin of their teeth most of the time. And maybe the galaxy is better for it, and in other instances they can do nothing to change or control any of it, and are often left humbled (even Kirk). Unlike the Vulcans it seems, unwilling to take necessary risks, not allowing their emotion to, sometimes, dictate what actions must be taken... at least in the context of the new film as to the symbolic destruction of Vulcan as a plot device. And logic driven NuSpock's inability to do anything about it, as opposed to NuKirk who knows what risks should be taken to win the day but cannot reverse the destruction that has already transpired.

 

[Middle Earther]

Well the OP's rantings are just simply pointing out some of the many plot holes in a poorly written script. What's the point of saying anything else?

 

[JarodRussell]

Vulcans were never intended to be wise, logical, boring mentors for humans, but rather interesting aliens in their own right, with their own issues and neuroses. They have always been depicted as deeply conflicted. The choice of "Vulcan" as the name of their planet - god of volcanoes - those things that seem dormant for a long, long time but are actually highly dangerous and explode without warning - isn't an accident.

Okay not everyone loves ENT but it's as canon as it comes, and the scene in which T'Pol explained to Trip that Vulcans are more violently emotional than humans is the key to understanding them and why they make a fetish of logic (it ain't just for kicks) and also understanding the Romulans, who presumably share this trait.

I almost forgot that ENT indeed turned the villainous Vulcans into the good Vulcans in the 4th season.

Vulcan's are honest to death and follow pure (sometimes cold) logic. But they should never be prejudiced. They should know much better than that. Logic dictates that everyone is equal, for example. Logic says that every life is precious, which is why they are all vegetarians and why Spock has to remind Kirk & Crew that the alien probe wants to talk to the whales, and not to the humans. And I want to believe that this is a view of the world that Spock shares with many Vulcans. Logic says that everyone has the right to choose his life. Sarek is an emotional Vulcan, which is why he married Amanda, which is why he was offended by Spock going to Starfleet.

But the whole thing in the new movie was silly, in my opinion. When did we see logical Vulcans in this movie? All we've seen were people who deserved punishment.

 

[Orcus]

Well that's spoiled the movie for me...

 

[Yug]

In Enterprise, it seemed they kept us humans down because we were the jocks, we would bring a party to space and invite all our loud new pals we'd meet, but they didn't want us to rock, cuz our music would bleed thru the walls of their library!!

And that would require them to bust down the door and cave in the skulls of the idiot humans who were making too much noise. Why take the risk of that happening when it's so much safer just to get the humans to STFU?

Cave in skulls? What are you talking about?

I think in a way, they welcomed the destruction of their planet, as if to say... "nobody likes us, everybody hates us, I guess we'll just go eat worms."

They're headaches but not self-pitying and pathetic!

They're a little pathetic. Vulcans are the cautionary tale of how neutered a culture can be when all members of it's society do exactly as they're told without question.

I think the reason why Vulcans are such jerks is that they are secretly jealous of the fact that humans don't have to repress their emotions.

Both they and the Rommies have to go to great lengths to compensate. Then they look at humans, who get along with each other in close quarters like happy little prairie dogs living in some gigantic prairie dog colony, yapping incessantly in their mindless prairie dog way, and it drives them NUTS! But they can't let the prairie dogs know that...

Isn't that basically the same analogy that you shot down?
Oh, but YOU came up with the "prairie dog" thing, so of course it's pure genius

 

[Tom Servo]

Well the OP's rantings are just simply pointing out some of the many plot holes in a poorly written script. What's the point of saying anything else?

Because he is wrong, thats why.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Vulcans were never intended to be wise, logical, boring mentors for humans, but rather interesting aliens in their own right, with their own issues and neuroses. They have always been depicted as deeply conflicted. The choice of "Vulcan" as the name of their planet - god of volcanoes - those things that seem dormant for a long, long time but are actually highly dangerous and explode without warning - isn't an accident.

Okay not everyone loves ENT but it's as canon as it comes, and the scene in which T'Pol explained to Trip that Vulcans are more violently emotional than humans is the key to understanding them and why they make a fetish of logic (it ain't just for kicks) and also understanding the Romulans, who presumably share this trait.

I almost forgot that ENT indeed turned the villainous Vulcans into the good Vulcans in the 4th season.

Vulcan's are honest to death and follow pure (sometimes cold) logic. But they should never be prejudiced. They should know much better than that. Logic dictates that everyone is equal, for example. Logic says that every life is precious, which is why they are all vegetarians and why Spock has to remind Kirk & Crew that the alien probe wants to talk to the whales, and not to the humans. And I want to believe that this is a view of the world that Spock shares with many Vulcans. Logic says that everyone has the right to choose his life. Sarek is an emotional Vulcan, which is why he married Amanda, which is why he was offended by Spock going to Starfleet.

But the whole thing in the new movie was silly, in my opinion. When did we see logical Vulcans in this movie? All we've seen were people who deserved punishment.

Which Vulcans are these? T'pring, who plots to kill or disgrace Spock so she can have Stonn? T'pau who treats the idea of off worlders being present at a Vulcan ceremony with distain? Spock and Sarek who are more than willing to bend the truth to further their aims and objectives? Spock, who often makes disparaging remarks about humans?

Time to take of the rose colored glasses and actually watch TOS.

 

[pookha]

every life is precious.
i guess that is why an ambassador knew who to kill someone with his bare hands.

the vulcans were not born logical.
but rather knew the road of surak was a difficult one that called for a lot of control and meditation.
over the years we shown that the vulcans were from more complicated then wanted outsiders to believe.

 

[Gojira]

Re: Vulcans - Those dumbfucks deserve to be extinct!

It actually makes a lot of sense if you ask me. I mean really, whenever a major disaster occurs on our planet, how many times is disinformation passed along, or information thats not entirely updated.

I mean look at the timeline here:

-The Narada warps out into Vulcan orbit, takes out all the Vulcan defense force ships in the area.

-The Narada begins to drill. It's even stated in the film that when the drill is online it knocks out long range communications and screws up sensor readings, so the Vulcans, deaf and blind, don't even know what the hell is going on, only that a big beam thing is drilling into their planet. They send out a distress call to the main Starfleet task force at Earth, and all the Earth listening posts pick up a Vulcan transmission that states that they are in distress and are experiencing a geological incident.

-That report is relayed to the Starfleet captains of the task force...who Warp to Vulcan.

I don't understand why people are having such a hard time figuring this out. Anything that got close the Narada was destroyed, and the Enterprise would have been too if not for Nero recognizing her.

This needs to be quoted for truth.

 

[pookha]

gah for the op..
the vulcans were not just chanting..
they were gathering all the katra's and knowledge they could.
they just didnt know for sure how much time they had due to the communications black out.
for all we know a ship was supposed to have come and picked them up but something happened to too it.

after the vulcans lost some ships trying to fight the narada a decision was probably made to start evacuations.
why thousands would have at least been saved.

and nero in the film tells kirk he had read about him.
what a great man he had been.

i suspect nero had made a point to find out all he could about spock in that time period .

so if he knew about kirk it wouldnt be suprising he would know about the ship spock served on with kirk.

and remember the enterprise was really distintive from the other ships.

 

[I am not Spock]

Vulcans have even more emotions than humans. Because its all bottled inside, its more concentrated. Which is why when we see them lose it, they really go quite nuts.

No wonder they envy humans.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Well the OP's rantings are just simply pointing out some of the many plot holes in a poorly written script. What's the point of saying anything else?

Because he is wrong, thats why.

How am I wrong? we all saw the movie and a lot of my friends have had the same questions about that particular storyline.

 

[Greg Cox]

QUOTE] Which Vulcans are these? T'pring, who plots to kill or disgrace Spock so she can have Stonn? T'pau who treats the idea of off worlders being present at a Vulcan ceremony with distain? Spock and Sarek who are more than willing to bend the truth to further their aims and objectives? Spock, who often makes disparaging remarks about humans?

Time to take of the rose colored glasses and actually watch TOS.

My point exactly!

 

[Tom Servo]

Well the OP's rantings are just simply pointing out some of the many plot holes in a poorly written script. What's the point of saying anything else?

Because he is wrong, thats why.

How am I wrong? we all saw the movie and a lot of my friends have had the same questions about that particular storyline.

Okay, wrong was the wrong word, but I think that you are misinterpreting disinformation spread along during a crisis, which happens ALL the time and claiming them as failures on the Vulcans part. These movies detractors think they are plot holes...I guess I should say, they are wrong.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Re: Vulcans - Those dumbfucks deserve to be extinct!

It actually makes a lot of sense if you ask me. I mean really, whenever a major disaster occurs on our planet, how many times is disinformation passed along, or information thats not entirely updated.

I mean look at the timeline here:

-The Narada warps out into Vulcan orbit, takes out all the Vulcan defense force ships in the area.

-The Narada begins to drill. It's even stated in the film that when the drill is online it knocks out long range communications and screws up sensor readings, so the Vulcans, deaf and blind, don't even know what the hell is going on, only that a big beam thing is drilling into their planet. They send out a distress call to the main Starfleet task force at Earth, and all the Earth listening posts pick up a Vulcan transmission that states that they are in distress and are experiencing a geological incident.

-That report is relayed to the Starfleet captains of the task force...who Warp to Vulcan.

I don't understand why people are having such a hard time figuring this out. Anything that got close the Narada was destroyed, and the Enterprise would have been too if not for Nero recognizing her.

Bingo!

And I would add they were at the Katric Ark to preserve their cultural integrity so they realized there was indeed a crisis going on.


Sharr

 

[pookha]

oh yeah the thing about vulcans dont lie is a myth.
spock said this during a time when he was lying so much if he was pinocchio he could have pole vaulted on that nose.

 

[Sci]

Well the OP's rantings are just simply pointing out some of the many plot holes in a poorly written script. What's the point of saying anything else?

Because he is wrong, thats why.

How am I wrong? we all saw the movie and a lot of my friends have had the same questions about that particular storyline.

Then apparently neither you nor your friends are very good at paying attention -- to the film you saw, or to the answers we have given you in this thread.