"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel?

[3D Master]

No, just writers who decided if they were going to tell stories featuring intergalactic travel, they better make up a drive capable of it in a plausible time frame.

No, writers who don't understand the size of the universe and the size of our galaxy, and decided to put things in another galaxy just because it sounds "cool".

Jiminy Cricket, once you've made up an impossible thing like an FTL drive, why can't you decide it's as fast as you need it to be? For all the Wf = X times the speed of light cubed (give or take a Cochrane factor) talk, Trek drives have always flown at plot speed. Stargate shouldn't be kicked for doing the same thing, especially when they made an effort to show Earth developing and acquiring the advancing technology.

Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

And it isn't so much the speed problem, as it is the fact that they did nothing with their galaxy and just dumped intergalactic events in their just because it sounds cool, and have no real grasp of distances and what it means.

The Asgard is a perfect example of this. They were part of an alliance, three other races, which was apparently an intergalactic alliance, and they seem to be the only ones from out of the galaxy. And the only galaxy apart from their own they seem to be patroling our galaxy alone. What the f for? What's so bad about other galaxies that they don't get the same treatment? Why even go into an alliance with three other races in another galaxy. And why are the Asgard the only ones intergalactic. There are no other races in other galaxie they might benefit this alliance?

It doesn't make any sense, and for what? Because a "wormhole to another galaxy" sounded cool.

 

[TOS Purist]

The real deal breaker, though, is that reference to reaching the moon in the late 21st century or something to that effect.

Well, the good thing is that it doesn't say that we reached the moon for the first time ever in the late 21st century - only that we went there. I'm sure that the Eugenics Wars (aka World War III in TOS) kind of put a crimp in NASA's plans to return (not to mention NASA's inability to receive funding for anything these days). So the deal breaker...well, it's not THAT much of a deal breaker.

Now ENT could be convincing prehistory to ST09...

Agreed. It also works as a convincing prehistory to TNG, since it really was developed by people who only knew TNG, and "reverse engineered" from TNG when they made ENT, not from TOS like they should have. As a result it works okay if you skip over TOS and ignore it (which they did when they created the show), but it fails once you try to stick TOS into the mess.

I did participate. I gave my opinion on your "thought experiment."

I appreciate hearing your viewpoint (and I'm NOT being sarcastic or having an attitude, I mean it!). But if you've already given your two cents, why are you still posting here?

 

[Wingsley]

One of the reasons FP could conceivably work as pre TOS history is that it looks convincingly pre TOS and pre Cage, something that is flat out impossible with ENT. The real deal breaker, though, is that reference to reaching the moon in the late 21st century or something to that effect. Of course in context of when FP was made that reference is somewhat understandable since in the '50s the idea of reaching the moon was still the sole province of science fiction--it just seemed so out of reach.

Now ENT could be convincing prehistory to ST09...

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "looks like". The cruiser C57D does not "look like" it belongs in the TOS' Universe's prehistory.

 

[TOS Purist]

The cruiser C57D does not "look like" it belongs in the TOS' Universe's prehistory.

I guess it's also a matter of opinion. I think that the C57D cruiser looks like it could fit very well into the TOS Universe's prehistory, and apparently so does Warped9. If you check out some of Warped9's concept images for the SS Valiant and other ships, they're not very far removed from the design aestetic of the C57D.

 

[number6]

I did participate. I gave my opinion on your "thought experiment."

I appreciate hearing your viewpoint (and I'm NOT being sarcastic or having an attitude, I mean it!). But if you've already given your two cents, why are you still posting here?

What difference does it make to you whether I participate or not?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The cruiser C57D does not "look like" it belongs in the TOS' Universe's prehistory.

I guess it's also a matter of opinion. I think that the C57D cruiser looks like it could fit very well into the TOS Universe's prehistory, and apparently so does Warped9. If you check out some of Warped9's concept images for the SS Valiant and other ships, they're not very far removed from the design aestetic of the C57D.

TOS means nacelles. Nacelles seem to be a key component in FTL tech in the TOS Universe for most races. The Feds have them, the Klingons have them and the Romulans have them. I think Lazarus' ship is the closest you get to the saucer design of FP in a TOS episode. As someone stated earlier LIS fits better with the FP design aesthetic. (Not that it stopped me form shoehorning it in a preTOS ship, I just claimed in was a variation of the Vulcan Ringship)

 

[Christopher]

Ignoring the huge conceptual, cultural, and continuity difference just because some of the designs "look like" the design style of TOS in some ways is startlingly superficial, dwelling on style to the exclusion of substance.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Jiminy Cricket, once you've made up an impossible thing like an FTL drive, why can't you decide it's as fast as you need it to be? For all the Wf = X times the speed of light cubed (give or take a Cochrane factor) talk, Trek drives have always flown at plot speed. Stargate shouldn't be kicked for doing the same thing, especially when they made an effort to show Earth developing and acquiring the advancing technology.

Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

[Guy] Did you watch the show?[/Guy]

SG teams were out stealing Goa'uld tech throughout the series, everything from zats to death gliders and tel'taks to a couple of ha'taks they couldn't keep hold of. The first hyperdrives for the F-302 and F-303 were Earth-built from those stolen ("acquired") systems. And they didn't work, either at all or at best not very well. Prometheus' Earth-built hyperdrive was replaced first by a stolen Goa'uld drive then a second given to them by the Asgard. And all the while, the SGC and Earth were learning more and expanding its own capabilities over the years.

You think it was easy? Not half as easy as it might or possibly should have been. It would have been simple early on to let SG-1 steal a mothership and go tear-assing around the galaxy shooting up the System Lords. That the producers resisted the temptation is to their credit.

 

[3D Master]

Jiminy Cricket, once you've made up an impossible thing like an FTL drive, why can't you decide it's as fast as you need it to be? For all the Wf = X times the speed of light cubed (give or take a Cochrane factor) talk, Trek drives have always flown at plot speed. Stargate shouldn't be kicked for doing the same thing, especially when they made an effort to show Earth developing and acquiring the advancing technology.

Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

[Guy] Did you watch the show?[/Guy]

SG teams were out stealing Goa'uld tech throughout the series, everything from zats to death gliders and tel'taks to a couple of ha'taks they couldn't keep hold of. The first hyperdrives for the F-302 and F-303 were Earth-built from those stolen ("acquired") systems. And they didn't work, either at all or at best not very well. Prometheus' Earth-built hyperdrive was replaced first by a stolen Goa'uld drive then a second given to them by the Asgard.

Aka: Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

[Guy] Did you watch the show?[/Guy]

SG teams were out stealing Goa'uld tech throughout the series, everything from zats to death gliders and tel'taks to a couple of ha'taks they couldn't keep hold of. The first hyperdrives for the F-302 and F-303 were Earth-built from those stolen ("acquired") systems. And they didn't work, either at all or at best not very well. Prometheus' Earth-built hyperdrive was replaced first by a stolen Goa'uld drive then a second given to them by the Asgard.

Aka: Earth did not develop nor acquire the advancing technology. It got dumped in their laps as a giftwrapped present for no real reason.

Um didn't the Asgaurd give Earth technology for saving their asses a bunch of times?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "looks like". The cruiser C57D does not "look like" it belongs in the TOS' Universe's prehistory.

No, C57D has a unique look that's nothing like Star Trek's technology (other than being round). NX-01, which actually is the precursor to Kirk's ship, looks exactly as if it belongs there -nacelles and all.

But then, Star Trek: Enterprise is the real prequel to TOS, and Forbidden Planet takes place within its own separate continuity, so that makes sense.

 

[Christopher]

^I think some people are confusing 1950s/60s design sensibilities and production techniques with in-universe technology. Of course a present-day interpretation of the Star Trek universe is going to look different from a 1960s interpretation -- and Roddenberry himself would've been the first to change the look of Starfleet given better budgets and technology to do it with. By the same token, if any filmmakers today made an in-universe sequel to Forbidden Planet, it wouldn't give the technology and costumes the exact same look they had in the 1950s. Because these are not documentaries we're watching. They're works of fiction, and their creators are interpreting a fictional reality in a way that's shaped by their design preferences, their resources, the cinematic technology available to them, and so forth.

 

[xortex]

So Hamlet in a suite and tie then in a farrari.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So Hamlet in a suite and tie then in a farrari.

Such things are done all the time with Shakespeare, in fact, and long have been.

But then, when "The Tragedy Of Julius Caesar" was performed in Shakespeare's time no attempt was made to costume the actors with any accurate resemblance to the customs of ancient Rome, either.

 

[Kelso]

So Hamlet in a suite and tie then in a farrari.

Such things are done all the time with Shakespeare, in fact, and long have been.

Indeed.

I've always felt that "Forbidden Planet" makes a pretty cool prequel to the TOS era.

If we were forced to accept FB and ST as the same continuity- as nonsensical as it seems- then shouldn't ST be considered a sequel to FB, rather than FB being a prequel to ST?

Anyway, the idea itself is intellectually masturbatory. One might as well consider The Aubrey–Maturin series a Star Trek prequel for all the good it would do.

 

[Christopher]

But then, when "The Tragedy Of Julius Caesar" was performed in Shakespeare's time no attempt was made to costume the actors with any accurate resemblance to the customs of ancient Rome, either.

Not just costume. "The clock hath stricken three?" They didn't have striking clocks in Caesar's day.

If we were forced to accept FB and ST as the same continuity- as nonsensical as it seems- then shouldn't ST be considered a sequel to FB, rather than FB being a prequel to ST?

Good point. Strictly speaking, A is only a prequel to B if it was made after B but set before it. Prequel is short for "preceding sequel," more or less. It's a sequel, a work made later, but it's set earlier. Enterprise is a prequel to TOS, but TOS is not a prequel to TNG, just a predecessor.

 

[trevanian]

The real deal breaker, though, is that reference to reaching the moon in the late 21st century or something to that effect.

Well, the good thing is that it doesn't say that we reached the moon for the first time ever in the late 21st century - only that we went there.

And it says men AND WOMEN ... which hasn't happened yet, and given our total non-ability to proceed w/ manned spaceflight now (when the shuttle is grounded for good shortly, we will have NO capability for manned spaceflight at all, which is more retrograde than any SF I've ever read), it may not happen for awhile.

I'm guessing women lost equality after that in the FP 'verse, or at least couldn't serve in the military, hence the all-guy crew.

Maybe the civilian space program got absorbed by the military (sort of the opposite of the way the US Space Force got dissolved in favor of NASA.)

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm guessing women lost equality after that in the FP 'verse, or at least couldn't serve in the military, hence the all-guy crew.

There used to be an American science-fiction/alternative history comic--done up in manga-style--called Tigers of Terra that subverted the one-gender space crew with women instead of men. The reasoning: women dealt better with prolonged exposure to low-to-zero-g environments than men did.

http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/tigers-of-terra

 

[Brutal Strudel]

The real deal breaker, though, is that reference to reaching the moon in the late 21st century or something to that effect.

Well, the good thing is that it doesn't say that we reached the moon for the first time ever in the late 21st century - only that we went there.

And it says men AND WOMEN ... which hasn't happened yet, and given our total non-ability to proceed w/ manned spaceflight now (when the shuttle is grounded for good shortly, we will have NO capability for manned spaceflight at all, which is more retrograde than any SF I've ever read), it may not happen for awhile.

I'm guessing women lost equality after that in the FP 'verse, or at least couldn't serve in the military, hence the all-guy crew.

Maybe the civilian space program got absorbed by the military (sort of the opposite of the way the US Space Force got dissolved in favor of NASA.)

Perhaps the "men and women" were colonists, just like the men and women of the Bellerophon.

 

[UssGlenn]

I'm guessing women lost equality after that in the FP 'verse, or at least couldn't serve in the military, hence the all-guy crew.

It's a bit more likely that they were just using the submarine model of crew complement, which is one gender because of the cramped quarters, among other reasons.