"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel?

[3D Master]

The people in charge of NASA wish to remain in control of information and you. They are also the same people in control of our governments. Cheap access to space means they lose the control they've been building so carefully over the last century.

That's so far removed from anything resembling reality that it's hilarious. NASA in control of anything? Then how come they're so broke???

The federal government is too divided and ineffectual to make anything work effectively. The idea that they could possibly manage a systematic coverup of anything is pathetically naive, especially given that every reporter in Washington would sell their firstborn child to uncover a massive government conspiracy. And my God, if the Democratically-controlled White House and Congress were involved in any kind of massive coverup, then the Republicans would be falling all over themselves to expose it and drive the Democrats from power. And vice-versa if the Republicans were the ones in control. Not to mention that the White House and Congress are constantly jockeying for dominance; they're more rivals than partners.

Of course Federal Governments are ineffective, that's the way those who are really in control WANT IT. The ones who are really in control are bankers, those who run the Federal Reserve, which is privately owned bank, by the way.

This way, anything that goes against them can easily be stalled and even stopped, but whenever they want something, a good chunk of propaganda, a massive document that would take a week or more to read but needs to be approved right now, and some wrist wringing and voila, Patriot Act, through, a bail out that was said to be limited to 5 billion but is actually blind check without limit also gets put through.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The people in charge of NASA wish to remain in control of information and you. They are also the same people in control of our governments. Cheap access to space means they lose the control they've been building so carefully over the last century.

That's so far removed from anything resembling reality that it's hilarious. NASA in control of anything? Then how come they're so broke???

The federal government is too divided and ineffectual to make anything work effectively. The idea that they could possibly manage a systematic coverup of anything is pathetically naive, especially given that every reporter in Washington would sell their firstborn child to uncover a massive government conspiracy. And my God, if the Democratically-controlled White House and Congress were involved in any kind of massive coverup, then the Republicans would be falling all over themselves to expose it and drive the Democrats from power. And vice-versa if the Republicans were the ones in control. Not to mention that the White House and Congress are constantly jockeying for dominance; they're more rivals than partners.

Of course Federal Governments are ineffective, that's the way those who are really in control WANT IT. The ones who are really in control are bankers, those who run the Federal Reserve, which is privately owned bank, by the way.

This way, anything that goes against them can easily be stalled and even stopped, but whenever they want something, a good chunk of propaganda, a massive document that would take a week or more to read but needs to be approved right now, and some wrist wringing and voila, Patriot Act, through, a bail out that was said to be limited to 5 billion but is actually blind check without limit also gets put through.

Dear God it's finally happened 3D Master has finally lost his mind! RUN! RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

 

[TOS Purist]

If you take TOS by itself, The SNL sketch with John Belushi fits just as well.

FC and ENT are events in Trek continuity prior to the events in TOS and there is no problem with fitting all of that into this, especially as some kind of "thought experiment."

By the same process we could make a bowl of Raspberry Jello fit too.

Well, if you don't really want to participate in this particular thought experiment, then you don't have to. I don't want to pressure anyone into doing something they don't want to do. You're more than welcome to make your own thread with your own set of specifications to your own thought experiment. And I'd be more than happy to participate in it according to whatever "rules" that you set.

And kudos to the people arguing against the stupid conspiracy theories of an all-powerful NASA, or suppressed information on aliens...it just goes against reality!

 

[number6]

I did participate. I gave my opinion on your "thought experiment." You can keep your attitude to yourself.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Remember, there's always room for Jell-O....

 

[number6]

Especially Raspberry Jell-o.

 

[xortex]

There's no reason technology and terminology can't change. How does a grub turn into a fly or a catapiller into a butterfly. It starts one way and ends up totally different. It evolves. Star Trek can evolve.

 

[Warped9]

One of the reasons FP could conceivably work as pre TOS history is that it looks convincingly pre TOS and pre Cage, something that is flat out impossible with ENT. The real deal breaker, though, is that reference to reaching the moon in the late 21st century or something to that effect. Of course in context of when FP was made that reference is somewhat understandable since in the '50s the idea of reaching the moon was still the sole province of science fiction--it just seemed so out of reach.

Now ENT could be convincing prehistory to ST09...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There's no reason technology and terminology can't change.

What would have to happen for FP to fit into Trek continuity would be for terminology and technology to flip back and forth between two very different states - first one way, then entirely different, then back to the first.

That's ignoring the incompatible back stories.

It doesn't fit together, at all.

 

[Warped9]

There'd have to be more than a few decades or a century betwwen FP and TOS for it to be convincing I think, to accomodate and rationalize the differences.

 

[Hambone]

Maybe someday, some "enterprising" writer will draft an adaptation of Forbidden Planet, rewriting it as though it were an episode of Star Trek. I really don't think it would be that much work at all. It might make interesting fan fiction.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'd rather see someone develop a sequel to Forbidden Planet that takes place in the FP "universe." How many ships do you suppose the United Planets has out there? We've no way of knowing exactly what the UP's resources are for building these things, but the ships themselves are relatively small and carry a crew of no more than about thirty people.

C57D is supposedly 378 days out from Earth and just reaching a star that's 16.7 light years from here. If we assume that the deceleration sequence we're shown takes place in real time, then almost all of that period of time is probably spent in FTL travel (given that deceleration takes only a few minutes and takes place minutes before landing). So it's got an FTL "cruising speed" of what, around 3 million miles per second?

 

[Warped9]

^^ Yes, a good sequel could be very cool. Perhaps better than just a straight up remake (assuming it, too, was also well made).

 

[Maurice]

Anyone see this movie?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389828/

Didn't catch this when it was posted a few days ago.

Yes, I have seen C.S.A. the film. I hasten to point out it's a deliberate farce, and not any kind of reasoned possible alternate history. It operates on the idea that the C.S.A. could conquer and subsume the U.S.A. and that this mirror-universe nation would follow essentially the same trajectory as our country, and thus can parody modern TV by hawking products like "The Cuff" and a home shopping network that sells slaves.

It's worth seeing as a point of discussion and as social commentary, but it's utter nonsense as a possible alternate history. Its biggest failing is that as farce, it's not as fierce as it should be, and misses opportunities to really thrust home the point about racism it's trying to make.

 

[Christopher]

I'd rather see someone develop a sequel to Forbidden Planet that takes place in the FP "universe." How many ships do you suppose the United Planets has out there? We've no way of knowing exactly what the UP's resources are for building these things, but the ships themselves are relatively small and carry a crew of no more than about thirty people.

Or maybe not even a sequel in the literal sense, just another story in the same universe. Something I sometimes regret about SF is how each film or show creates a whole reality that rarely gets explored further. It might be nice if there were more shared backgrounds. It would be hard to pull off, given copyright laws, but maybe a given film studio could set multiple different genre films in the same overall reality, building on a common background and history even if the direct links are minimal.

There's an anime film called Lily C.A.T. that's strongly influenced by Alien, so much so that it could practically be considered another tale in the same universe.

C57D is supposedly 378 days out from Earth and just reaching a star that's 16.7 light years from here. If we assume that the deceleration sequence we're shown takes place in real time, then almost all of that period of time is probably spent in FTL travel (given that deceleration takes only a few minutes and takes place minutes before landing). So it's got an FTL "cruising speed" of what, around 3 million miles per second?

Yes, which equals 16.2 times the speed of light -- so 16.77 ly takes just a bit over a year. For a benchmark, Earth to Alpha Centauri, the nearest star system, would take just under 14 weeks. So they don't have fast interstellar travel, suggesting they haven't explored much of the galaxy. Earth colonies would be pretty much on their own with only occasional contact. We're looking at something more like European colonization before steam power, where colonies were months or more from the home country, rather than a Trek-type universe where interstellar travel takes mere days, or even hours if it suits the story.

Yes, I have seen C.S.A. the film. I hasten to point out it's a deliberate farce, and not any kind of reasoned possible alternate history. It operates on the idea that the C.S.A. could conquer and subsume the U.S.A. and that this mirror-universe nation would follow essentially the same trajectory as our country, and thus can parody modern TV by hawking products like "The Cuff" and a home shopping network that sells slaves.

Definitely not a credible alternate history. Like I pointed out before, the CSA didn't want to conquer the USA, it wanted to leave it. The Confederacy was about rejecting federal control in favor of a looser alliance of independent states, so the idea of them as a conquering power makes no sense.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The mock ads are probably the best part of "C.S.A.", especially when after seeing them and laughing at the outrageousness of them, the montage at the end pointing out that once upon a time, those ads would've fit right in with what was running on network tv and radio not that very many years ago.

Actually, I'm surprised they didn't have something about "Amos and Andy: The Next Generation"...

 

[3D Master]

C57D is supposedly 378 days out from Earth and just reaching a star that's 16.7 light years from here. If we assume that the deceleration sequence we're shown takes place in real time, then almost all of that period of time is probably spent in FTL travel (given that deceleration takes only a few minutes and takes place minutes before landing). So it's got an FTL "cruising speed" of what, around 3 million miles per second?

Yes, which equals 16.2 times the speed of light -- so 16.77 ly takes just a bit over a year. For a benchmark, Earth to Alpha Centauri, the nearest star system, would take just under 14 weeks. So they don't have fast interstellar travel, suggesting they haven't explored much of the galaxy. Earth colonies would be pretty much on their own with only occasional contact. We're looking at something more like European colonization before steam power, where colonies were months or more from the home country, rather than a Trek-type universe where interstellar travel takes mere days, or even hours if it suits the story.

Well, it used to be that some time before TOS, exploration was also very slow. (Then Enterprise came along, to Q'onos in a few days. Mamma Mia!) Give FP another century and they'll be at TOS levels. FP setting, you know, where the stories take place, a small backyard of Earth, but with the ocasional having further explored alien power around (Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, Nausicaans, maybe one or two more), is what Enterprise should have been. Alas.

Quite frankly Star Trek has never been very fast, and like FP this is one of its strengths. Compare it to Stargate where they hop over to other galaxies within a few weeks, or even minutes depending on the power source. Clearly a bunch of writers who have absolutely no clue of the size of the universe, hell, just the size of our galaxy really. Everything that was put in other galaxies could have been put in our and have plenty to spare for more; they still wouldn't have seen a measly thousandth of a percent of our galaxy.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

No, just writers who decided if they were going to tell stories featuring intergalactic travel, they better make up a drive capable of it in a plausible time frame.

Jiminy Cricket, once you've made up an impossible thing like an FTL drive, why can't you decide it's as fast as you need it to be? For all the Wf = X times the speed of light cubed (give or take a Cochrane factor) talk, Trek drives have always flown at plot speed. Stargate shouldn't be kicked for doing the same thing, especially when they made an effort to show Earth developing and acquiring the advancing technology.

 

[Christopher]

^Right. The intergalactic hyperdrive tech comes from the Asgard, who were clearly depicted as the most advanced and ancient non-ascended race in the Stargate universe. So its extreme speed is justified. We've certainly seen other, slower hyperdrives in the SG-verse over the years. The Goa'uld's original hyperdrive was so slow that it took them pretty much the whole first season to get their first attack fleet to Earth, and their cargo ships were explicitly said to be even slower. They later got a faster hyperdrive when it served the story, but it was still far slower than the Asgard drive (necessarily, since it had to be slower than Stargate travel in order to justify the Stargates as the primary mode of transportation). And an ongoing plot thread in Atlantis involved the Wraith's relatively slow hyperdrive and the danger to Earth if they were to obtain the Asgard intergalactic drive. So it's not arbitrary. There's a clear hierarchy of hyperdrive speeds which has been pretty well-observed.

 

[Basil]

I finally watched Forbidden Planet a couple of years ago and was really surprised how close it was to Trek. I Thought Leslie Nielsen did a great job as the commander, too bad they didn't make a series with him!

I donno about the prequel angle, but I always liked the movie. It was pretty well done, I kinda liked that the enemies were

Spoiler: enemies

From the doctor's own mind

, it was a very cool touch, as well as you not being able to see them. I think the robot was about the only really lame thing in the film. It seemed so out of place that it was kinda distracting.

Actually, the robot could be the only visual clue of what the Krell more or less looked like.

Don't forget that Morbius "tinkered him together" after getting his brain boosted by the Krell equipment and spoke of the Krell having bulkier craniums than humans -- certainly, Robby fits that description. And Adams is not really sure that Robby is a robot when first meeting him, suggesting he's familiar with robots, but they generally don't look like Robby; if we extrapolate from robots like Data that they resemble their human creators, then Robby's design might be the product of a human mind acted upon by alien technology. At the very least, he could be a projection of what Morbius imagined the Krell looked like.

Regardless, Forbidden Planet does an excellent job of taking the wildly imaginative design aesthetic from so many pulp covers and consistently incorporating them in a film that visually is in class to itself. It gives the film a "look" that is at once retro and modern, and at times, dreamlike, fitting into the whole Freudian plot subtext. Its charm in this regard is something I miss when watching the flatter, tinnier, chromier, forgettablier movies made today.