That's a bit unfair IMO. Some of what they did was simply awesome.
Singly most hated & despised ep of the whole 79
- Thread starter Chrisisall
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No, it's not unfair. But in fairness it should be qualified.That's a bit unfair IMO. Some of what they did was simply awesome.
TV is full of second rate cgi. By that I mean run-of-the-mill cgi as opposed to good state-of-the-art cgi like you find in the better feature films. Most of TV's cgi is serviceable, but it really looks out of place alongside TOS' live-action footage.
I also read somewhere that they intentionally weren't looking to blow our minds with stuff that would look too amazing given the era of 60's TV the live action photography demonstrated, similarly, the new FX for Superman II that attempted an 80's feel.
Could also be an excuse for simply servicable stuff too, I conjure...
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Exactly!! TOS was as cinematic as it possibly could be when it was able to, and using real models filmed with real celluloid film would go a long way in making it look like we're looking at a real spaceship that Kirk and the rest are actually inside. CGI just doesn't have the same on-screen presence, and some of the effects were less effective than the oft-times primitive 60's effects. For example, the Klingon battle cruiser in "Elaan of Troyius" looks like it's shooting blobs of jello in the Remastered version, whereas the original effect was much cooler. Not to mention the cloud creature from "Obsession"...
Maybe one of these days they'll do a proper "Special Edition" of TOS with REAL special effects instead of crappy CGI that people are gushing over like it's the second coming of Christ.
I was completely unhappy with the starfield in the end of 'Naked Time'" but it's a trade-off. In the proponderance, the new FX serve the story.Maybe one of these days they'll do a proper "Special Edition" of TOS with REAL special effects instead of crappy CGI that people are gushing over like it's the second coming of Christ.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I was completely unhappy with the starfield in the end of 'Naked Time'" but it's a trade-off. In the proponderance, the new FX serve the story.Maybe one of these days they'll do a proper "Special Edition" of TOS with REAL special effects instead of crappy CGI that people are gushing over like it's the second coming of Christ.
Y'think? I have seen very little of TOS-Remasturbated, but I have seen the last five min of NAKED TIME, and I really like the original planet better. I have seen about 20min of DOOMSDAY and thought they turned it into a full-on cartoon, and I've seen about 10 min of TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY, which was almost decent (though not nearly bright enough for stuff in earth orbit on the sun side ... funny that they get Earth to look like shuttle footage of it, but the ship can't look anywhere near as good as the real thing, or a well shot miniature.)
The only CG I've seen of TOS-era stuff that really looked good (mostly) and appropriately styled and lit (seriously good) was the stuff Scott Gammans did that was up on youtube. NOT his DOOMSDAY MACHINE stuff ... that, while ambitious, doesn't, based on the bits I've seen, look right, but his earlier ENT flybys have the lighting and sharpness of a photographed object and the aesthetic of TOS, all of which I find largely lacking on the bits of -R I've bit my tongue through.
I don't think I've laughed as hard as I did reading your post in a long time!! Calling the Remastered "Doomsday Machine" a cartoon was spot-on; I hadn't thought of it that way, but it DOES look like a cartoon.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
To be fair, the animation on the original openmouthbass/horno'plenty/planetkiller was on the cartoony side, but that wasn't often the case on TOS ... I remember a terrible explosion at the beginning of PATTERNS OF FORCE that was also cartoony to my eyes, but lots of animation and ship stuff on the show was pretty nice, if you allow for matte issues.
There's this whole issue of detail on shadow side that plagues me w/ respect to a lot of CG ... that and non-luminous 'dead' mailing label windows on cg ships. Shorthand problem summation is lack of dynamic range, but it is also artistic choice to some degree, and I take a lot of issue with it. As longtime posters here have often heard, I find the ship cg stuff at the beginning of SOLARIS to be fantastic, but that is an exception to the rule.
There's this whole issue of detail on shadow side that plagues me w/ respect to a lot of CG ... that and non-luminous 'dead' mailing label windows on cg ships. Shorthand problem summation is lack of dynamic range, but it is also artistic choice to some degree, and I take a lot of issue with it. As longtime posters here have often heard, I find the ship cg stuff at the beginning of SOLARIS to be fantastic, but that is an exception to the rule.
The CG ships in "Galaxy Quest" are also incredible; although maybe they weren't CG, because they had the on-screen presence of a well-done model. I'm sure they tried to make the ships look as real as possible, especially to contrast the TV show sets the actors were used to and convey that THIS, on the other hand, is the real deal. Either way, the NSEA Protector was a perfect example of how a smooth-hulled ship (like the TOS Enterprise) can be done in a very realistic manner if done correctly.
Possibly, but in that particular case ANYTHING, even raw STORYBOARDS, would be better than the AMT model shots.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
The GQ stuff IS great, but yeah, the ships are almost always miniatures, not CG. GQ, EVENT HORIZON, SPACE COWBOYS are all primarily miniature based shows that demonstrate for me the clear superiority of a model-based approach for ship stuff, at least for hero and beauty passes. As much as I loved FIREFLY, I thought they tried for too much and went WAY too close to the ship in SERENITY and blew what had been a very credible CG illusion (wish they'd use the physical crash model for some of the flyby shots.)
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Possibly, but in that particular case ANYTHING, even raw STORYBOARDS, would be better than the AMT model shots.
Those ARE awful, yeah, just like the ent doing a shimmy through time at the end of original TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY is pathetic, but at least they all look physical. I guess my strongest objection is when you go from something that looks like it exists to something that has no presence, or exists in strong conflict with the other elements ... which is why the 'cartoon' word goes off in my mind so quickly. And add to that the lighting being less striking in the CG shots, which makes everything seem more ModernTrekCentury24 than the vibrant look of TOS (which to be fair was also my major bitch about DS9's Tribble show ... it was done with nice miniatures, but they were lit and composited in a way that made them look like mediocre CG.)
They were miniatures? Really? Holy crap, I just assumed they were CGI. Funny, I just lost some respect for the ep.
Good cgi can accomplish amazing things and can surpass what you can do with models, BUT it takes time and effort and consequently MONEY. None of this was going to happen with TOS-R.
And it's highly unlikely that TOS will ever have this treatment unless cgi becomes dirt cheap and practically effortless someday. Maybe one or two episodes might have it done, but not the entire series. There's simply too much to do beyond remaking some space shot sequences and planets.
And it's highly unlikely that TOS will ever have this treatment unless cgi becomes dirt cheap and practically effortless someday. Maybe one or two episodes might have it done, but not the entire series. There's simply too much to do beyond remaking some space shot sequences and planets.
*AHEM* sorry, but, no way.
I like, no, love what they did in the remastered eps, but nothing replaces the real thing, and in rare instances, cgi can be the real thing's equal, but the amount of time necessary to achieve that level would, and should suggest going back to basics, like in Zathura.
Ah...well then, that just goes to show that you can't beat models in terms of making something look real (because it is).
Or unless a certain TOS purist fanatic like myself finally graduates from film school and after many years of working in the industry, finally gets a chance to work on projects of his own and goes for an extensive, in-depth "Special Edition" of TOS.
We might work together someday...Or unless a certain TOS purist fanatic like myself finally graduates from film school and after many years of working in the industry, finally gets a chance to work on projects of his own and goes for an extensive, in-depth "Special Edition" of TOS.
This is a sample of my recent stuff-
We might work together someday...
Really? That's awesome! I'm guessing you're in a film-related career or education?
I love the "Lost in Space" picture!! It reminds me..."Lost in Space" actually fits pretty well (by accident, I'm sure) into the TOS Universe's history.
Think about it; the Robinson family leaves Earth in 1997 aboard a sleeper ship to colonize Alpha Centauri. We all know that Khan's ship, the SS Botany Bay, was a sleeper ship too and was also launched in the 1990's, which is when (according to Marla McGivers) such things were fairly common in the alternate-reality of the TOS Universe.
It's also possible that the reason the Robinson family were leading a colonization mission was to provide a new home for those hoping to escape the fallout of the Eugenics Wars / World War III. Maybe Dr. Smith, the saboteur of the mission, was a member of the faction that supported the likes of Khan Singh and Colonel Green.
It's also possible that subsequent colonization efforts to Alpha Centauri is what enabled Earth to make first contact with the citizens already living there - people that Zefram Cochrane was a descendant of (since he was from Alpha Centauri).
Just something cool to consider!!
Digital Media major. I made that in 15 minutes for my Son while I was waiting for the printer.Really? That's awesome! I'm guessing you're in a film-related career or education?
It's really crude, but I had fun making it!Similar threads
