"Human Whore" Cut

[darkshadow0001]

The DVD should have the whole movie in-tact, shouldn't it? I would hate to buy it and find out it has been. I doubt they would, but you never know!

 

[Daneel]

I remember hearing this line the first time I saw it. It kind of shocked me having the word "whore" in trek.

It shocked me more that a Vulcan said it.

Me too, though possibly for different reasons. I mean, we knew Spock had been picked on as a child for being half-Human, but I figured it was just the usual Vulcan snobbery and elitism. I never really thought that Vulcans --even Vulcan children-- would be so aggressive in their bullying. It just doesn't seem very... logical.

 

[Ovation]

Logic is not innate, it is learned. Moreover, logic has no moral value in and of itself. It is simply a tool. It is not surprising that a species that, left unchecked, is more extremely emotional than humans would have children that were both imperfect in their emotional control AND who might apply "logic" in an inappropriate manner before reaching maturity.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I went to see the movie again yesterday and someone else in the theatre noticed this line was cut.

Anyways, I still couldn't get a glimpse of R2. I watched on the viewscreen and I think I did see an object that could of been R2-- if it was him, he was floating right in the middle of the screen but it was so tiny I couldn't tell. Also I couldn't find him in the debris on Vulcan, everything was moving to quickly. Hopefully when the DVD comes out I'll be able to get a better view...

 

[Nick Ryder]

Well at the budget theater I saw it at this past Tuesday, the Human Whore line was still in there.

Maybe some areas think "whore" is too strong a word for chillin's... except half naked green orion women are okie dokie!

 

[T'Cal]

I thought it was odd that, after the fight, young Spock tells his father, "They called you a traiter!" I think I might have told my father, "They called Mother a whore!" That was a bigger insult to me.

 

[Ceridwen]

I thought it was odd that, after the fight, young Spock tells his father, "They called you a traiter!" I think I might have told my father, "They called Mother a whore!" That was a bigger insult to me.

When I was a kid, I don't think I could have brought myself to say the word "whore," even in example. The fact that it was a harsher insult would have made it that much harder to say out loud.

 

[cooleddie74]

I thought it was odd that, after the fight, young Spock tells his father, "They called you a traiter!" I think I might have told my father, "They called Mother a whore!" That was a bigger insult to me.

Beats the other Vulcan kids saying "your mother embezzles from sperm banks."

 

[iluthradanar]

I wonder if scenes get trimmed. I saw it today at the dollar theatre and the whole scene with Captain Robau being killed was cut, or I just zoned out for a minute. I swear it jumped from the Romulans asking him what year it was and he answering, to the Enterprise is being evac'd. Strange.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I wonder if scenes get trimmed. I saw it today at the dollar theatre and the whole scene with Captain Robau being killed was cut, or I just zoned out for a minute. I swear it jumped from the Romulans asking him what year it was and he answering, to the Enterprise is being evac'd. Strange.

It's possible. Someone mentioned earlier to me that some second-hand theatres cut scenes out, but that scene was included at the one I saw. Hopefully everything on the DVD will still be intact.

As for R2 (again ) I just read the description of where he was and I do now remember seeing something that looked liked him floating on the viewscreen. I thought it was a scene in the battle he was in. I was wrong.

Plus I just found The Millenium Falcon in Star Trek:First Contact. Wonder how many other Star Wars stuff we'll get intertwined

 

[M'Sharak]

I wonder if scenes get trimmed. I saw it today at the dollar theatre and the whole scene with Captain Robau being killed was cut, or I just zoned out for a minute. I swear it jumped from the Romulans asking him what year it was and he answering, to the Enterprise is being evac'd. Strange.

It's possible. Someone mentioned earlier to me that some second-hand theatres cut scenes out, but that scene was included at the one I saw. Hopefully everything on the DVD will still be intact.

The movie will be complete on the DVD.

As to the cuts observed in second-run theaters: the longer a copy of the film remains in circulation, the more it becomes worn by being run through the projector over and over -- this was being reported even in first-run theaters as early as the third or fourth week of release. Wear includes surface scratching as a result of normal operation, but wear can also include damage which leads to projector jams or breaks in the film, after which the damaged part is cut out and the rest of the film spliced back together for further showings. Since all authorized copies of the movie remain the property of Paramount, the terms of the agreement by which theater owners receive a copy for showing the movie would most likely prohibit any such cuts for reasons other than damage to the film.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wonder if scenes get trimmed.

They are simply using old prints that have been screened a lot, and the splices are showing. TV screenings used to get cut to fit certain timeslots, or to adjust for advertising - but there's no need for cheap cinemas to request cuts to prints unless they were changing the rating.

 

[David cgc]

I thought it was odd that, after the fight, young Spock tells his father, "They called you a traiter!" I think I might have told my father, "They called Mother a whore!" That was a bigger insult to me.

When I was a kid, I don't think I could have brought myself to say the word "whore," even in example. The fact that it was a harsher insult would have made it that much harder to say out loud.

That was about the sum of my impression. I also guessed that Spock was embarrassed that the insults about his human mother offended him more than the ones about his far-more-socially-respectable vulcan father, so he decided to downplay that.

 

[VulcanVixen]

Sometimes the reels can get damaged since they've met their end when they are sent to $2 theaters. I saw the movie at a seedy discount theater, and they had not cut the "Human Whore" part out, although, during the end of the movie, an annoying, thin, yellow line appeared on the scream due to the reel being damaged.

 

[Rackon]

I thought it was odd that, after the fight, young Spock tells his father, "They called you a traiter!" I think I might have told my father, "They called Mother a whore!" That was a bigger insult to me.

When I was a kid, I don't think I could have brought myself to say the word "whore," even in example. The fact that it was a harsher insult would have made it that much harder to say out loud.

That was about the sum of my impression. I also guessed that Spock was embarrassed that the insults about his human mother offended him more than the ones about his far-more-socially-respectable vulcan father, so he decided to downplay that.

Yup, it was the far bigger insult.

And far more personal to Spock, being half human, and adoring his mother. Which is why he can't repeat it to his father's face.

It's not embarrassment, it's emotional pain. You have to see it from a child's POV - however brilliant, Spock is still a child here.

Spock is trying pretty darned hard to maintain his dignity and control in front of his father, from whom he seeks approval. (I'm sure most of us have experienced some version of this sort of parent-child "discussion" after a youthful transgression in our own lives. )

Spock explains his outburst by revealing the "traitor" line to Sarek, which is painful enough, but he can't speak the far more hurtful jibe about his mother. Repeating the insult about Amanda to his father would be too emotional and vulnerable for him. But it is very clear that is the deeper hurt. And children tend to keep the deeper hurts inside.

 

[JarodRussell]

Vulcan children of the 23rd century know what a whore is?

I mean, where did they learn that? From their human classmates? From their teachers? "Look, my children, there are whores out there. Beware of the whores."

 

[Rackon]

Vulcan children of the 23rd century know what a whore is?

I mean, where did they learn that? From their human classmates? From their teachers? "Look, my children, there are whores out there. Beware of the whores."

It is, after all, the world's oldest profession, why why assume it disappears from humanoid societies in the 23rd Century?? (Orions, anyone?)

And no human classmates that I saw.

But seriously, you gotta be kidding. How long since you were in school? Where do any kids anywhere learn about the unsavoury sides of life and other nastiness?

This isn't much of a leap for any schoolboy with an ounce of ambition, Vulcan or no. It seems perfectly plausible to me, and drives home the point that Vulcan logic is only achieved through hard earned emotional mastery and courtesy to others must be learned. Their little boys can be mean little bastards just like human children.

Being the brainy bunch they are, I'd assume this group of older bullies (older than Spock, who looks like he's about 11) has researched their insults diligently. ("This is your 37th attempt at eliciting an emotional response from me.") Being Vulcan, they'd be thorough, and they'd also be upping the ante to find the most hurtful things to say, since they haven't been able to get that rise out of young Spock in previous tries.

Although one presumes there is no prostitution on modern Vulcan, the concept and term would assuredly be known there and its equivalent may have been a part of pre-Reformation history. Vulcan also has an invective mode in High Vulcan, so it may already be a derrogatory (htough unused/unspoken) term in the culture. If not, like any good schoolboys, the Vulcan bullies could have learned the word in connection with studying other cultures/history. The computer libraries on Vulcan would have allowed rather wide-ranging research.

If it's out there, they'd find it.

Consider, we heard the exchange in English but in-universe they would have been speaking Vulcan.

 

[shapeshifter]

Whores are CANON!1!!

Very funny, JarodRussell

I agree with the camp whom believes the film just wore out there so they cut it. I don't think they could legally cut a scene without permission.

 

[Rackon]

Whores are CANON!1!!

Very funny, JarodRussell

I agree with the camp whom believes the film just wore out there so they cut it. I don't think they could legally cut a scene without permission.

Yup, as I chime in again as about the 6th person to comment. This movie was in theaters so long the prints began to wear out, get fragile, so that particular reel of film broke or was damaged at that point, the bad place was cut out, the two ends were spliced back together. No censoriship, no editing.

Exhibitors don't have time or the desire to re-edit movies. Besides, they have to show the original films according to contract. But the second run houses often get damages prints. So it goes.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Vulcan children of the 23rd century know what a whore is?

I mean, where did they learn that?

Internet porn.