The Final Frontier is at least as good as Search For Spock!

[Chrisisall]

Y'know, FX aside, I mean.

In SFS we get this dubious, never-before-mentioned Katra thing, a wuss fight with Krudge, a son-turned-redshirt, and a LOOOOONG Mt. Seleya scene. The coolest part was seeing the Enterprise self-destruct. Sort of. Cool, I mean.
In TFF we get this dubious, never-before-mentioned brother thing, a cool fight in Paradise, an idiotic by Scotty, and one of the funniest lines ever in Trek ("Excuse me..."). The coolest part was seeing the Galileo blast into the hangar deck.

See? So next time you wanna go ballistic on "Bill's Turn", remember that were the FX as good as on SFS, you'd have a very precarious case to make.
Right?

 

[Gojira]

I like both films actually but TSFS is an underrated Trek movie and is a lot better than most people give it credit for IMHO. But I think it is also better than TFF.

 

[Chrisisall]

Leonard does subtle better than Bill, but that still doesn't make a big difference in this comparison, to me.

 

[RyuRoots]

Even if elements are similar, there's a lot to be said for quality of execution. Not that III was great. III was meh. But V is worse than Nemesis will ever be. At least to me.

 

[Chrisisall]

V is worse than Nemesis will ever be. At least to me.

Hey, I own both, so obviously I like them, but really, watching Nemesis takes the same amount of selectively filtering out/ignoring the BS as TFF does. At least for me.

 

[trevanian]

I think SFS is a bigger missed opportunity than any of the TOS sequelflicks, so of course I'll agree with the OP. I also love TFF ... if I could only keep one trek movie, it would be ... well, if I could only keep three, they'd be TFF, TWOK and TMP.

 

[Chrisisall]

I if I could only keep three, they'd be TFF, TWOK and TMP.

For me it would be TMP, TVH, and TFF, in that order.

 

[Maurice]

The character assassination in V will always render it beneath III in my book.

 

[Chrisisall]

The character assassination in V will always render it beneath III in my book.

I prefer to think of it as character stretch, not assassination.
Or maybe it was the Kentucky bourbon & beans....

 

[Therin of Andor]

So next time you wanna go ballistic on "Bill's Turn", remember that were the FX as good as on SFS, you'd have a very precarious case to make.

As an avid ST fan who was there as the gossip started to flow on plans for ST III, my friends and I were extremely dubious of Leonard Nimoy proving himself as a ST director. On opening night we were (mostly) exhilarated and impressed. We saw it four times in its opening week.

Then Nimoy topped himself with ST IV.

When the gossip started to flow on plans for ST V, we were extremely nervous about William Shatner's ego running wild as a ST director, and Roddenberry's and Fontana's criticism of the concept of Sybok's relationship to Spock. On opening night my friends and I were a bit dejected and unimpressed. While we'd certainly had a fun night's entertainment, we definitely weren't in a hurry to race back to the cinema and see it again.

 

[Chrisisall]

On opening night my friends and I were a bit dejected and unimpressed. While we'd certainly had a fun night's entertainment, we definitely weren't in a hurry to race back to the cinema and see it again.

Okay, point taken, but I still say that if:
1) The STUDIO didn't ask for a yuck-a-minute out of the script, and
2) The STUDIO didn't cut the budget twice
it would have been a better adventure.
As is, yeah, SFS is a technically better put together production.

 

[Captain Pike]

III is pretty ordinary, standard fare but has a few nice moments.

V is crap. On a stick.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

As is, yeah, SFS is a technically better put together production.

Which is, kinda, sorta, the whole point. SFS had better production values and used them to create a better film (not great, but enjoyable). Ironically, Nemesis had the better production values of the three and yet it readily finds itself, along with TFF, in conversations about "worst Trek film."

Or to put it another way, SFS did a better job of taking advantage of its production values than either TFF and Nemesis.

 

[Chrisisall]

III is pretty ordinary, standard fare but has a few nice moments.

Agreed.

V is crap. On a stick.

That was my assessment until recently, when I watched it for the 2nd time showing it to my Son who needed to see every adventure Kirk & Spock ever went on, and suddenly, I saw past what she was, and on to what she could have been.
You want real crap on a stick, I mean unredeemable cow pie from-the-script kind?
Generations.

 

[Chrisisall]

SFS had better production values and used them to create a better film (not great, but enjoyable). Ironically, Nemesis had the better production values of the three and yet it readily finds itself, along with TFF, in conversations about "worst Trek film."

TFF's story wasn't a bad idea. Nemesis' was (IMO). If only Nemesis & TFF could magically switch production values...
HEY! Maybe there's an alternate timeline where Trek V was not hamstringed by suits, & went on to be one of the more appreciated flicks!

Yeah, I know. And maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot...

 

[Greylock Crescent]

TFF's story wasn't a bad idea. Nemesis' was (IMO). If only Nemesis & TFF could magically switch production values...
HEY! Maybe there's an alternate timeline where Trek V was not hamstringed by suits, & went on to be one of the more appreciated flicks!

Yeah, I know. And maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot...

Well, I'd say the story idea for TFF was "questionable" because it requires too much suspension of disbelief to be readily accessible to mainstream audiences. That said, I agree that the story idea for Nemesis was downright horrendous. The story idea for TSFS was pretty straighforward (i.e. get Spock back on the show) which is one reason why it's a superior film to TFF. I do wonder what TFF would have been like with strong studio support, though.

 

[Chrisisall]

I do wonder what TFF would have been like with strong studio support, though.

We, in a limited way, "reach."

 

[Basill]

The character assassination in V will always render it beneath III in my book.

Totally agreed. I actually love III despite the flaws so many point out, but it has a heart to it that still draws me in. V has some redeeming features, but it plays too much like an episode of Gilligan's Island for my personal tastes. Back burner for that gravy.

 

[trevanian]

TFF's story wasn't a bad idea. Nemesis' was (IMO). If only Nemesis & TFF could magically switch production values...
HEY! Maybe there's an alternate timeline where Trek V was not hamstringed by suits, & went on to be one of the more appreciated flicks!

Yeah, I know. And maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot...

Well, I'd say the story idea for TFF was "questionable" because it requires too much suspension of disbelief to be readily accessible to mainstream audiences.

More of an art film notion than mainstream, I agree. THE RAPTURE was made shortly after TFF, and there you have a picture where the protagonist basically tells God to go fuck himself at the end, after she 'listens' to him and shoots her daughter to death. This movie even had the balls to portray Christian-style judgement day, which I'm still amazed didn't result in theaters being burned down by fundamentalist types. Not a perfect movie, but gutsy as all hell, a really good try.

 

[Ward Fowler]

I think SFS is a bigger missed opportunity than any of the TOS sequelflicks, so of course I'll agree with the OP. I also love TFF ... if I could only keep one trek movie, it would be ... well, if I could only keep three, they'd be TFF, TWOK and TMP.

I agree with all of this.