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Create a fun Ds9 alternate universe.

Dukat's wife would have to be a total battle axe. If we're being total fantasy here, no budget concerns and the like, I'd say Judi Dench as "Mrs." Dukat. She could whip him into shape with one glare. lol

Since we've seen the kinds of women Dukat actually went for (and not just the one he fantasized about, Kira,) pretty much anybody who was pretty and could play fauning/submissive well would work for Naprem.
 
Someone mentioning the original plans for "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" been the season 3 finale and season 4 opener. I think it would have been an interesting chance if they went with that plan and seeing how they get to the Dominion War from there.
 
PSGarak said:
Dukat's wife would have to be a total battle axe. If we're being total fantasy here, no budget concerns and the like, I'd say Judi Dench as "Mrs." Dukat. She could whip him into shape with one glare. lol

Since we've seen the kinds of women Dukat actually went for (and not just the one he fantasized about, Kira,) pretty much anybody who was pretty and could play fauning/submissive well would work for Naprem.
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I don't know, I prefer the idea of Naprem being a stronger person and completely different from Meru. I loved her potrayal in this fanfic (it's 5 'what if' fanfic stories - this one on based on the premise of Dukat and Kira finding Naprem alive, while Ziyal is the one who died). Although I'm not sure if I like the Winn comparison. :shifty:

Judi Dench...hmm, I don't see her as Dukat's wife. How about Helen Mirren, if we're going with British actresses? Or actually, I think this British actress would be perfect for a Cardassian (and she would be easier to get, budget-wise):

Sally Dexter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFiRk85qFnk
 
^Helen Mirren would also be perfect. She can bring on the "dragon lady" when she wants, and she does it extremely well. I also like her sense of irony. Sally Dexter has strong features that I think would adapt very well to the Cardassian makeup, too, but I'm not really familiar with her acting.

I could also see Naprem presenting one face to Dukat yet being completely different when not around him. He's too self-absorbed to be able to tell the difference. Actually, I'll rephrase that just a bit. He's intelligent enough to tell the difference but too egotistical to try.
 
PSGarak said:
^Helen Mirren would also be perfect. She can bring on the "dragon lady" when she wants, and she does it extremely well. I also like her sense of irony. Sally Dexter has strong features that I think would adapt very well to the Cardassian makeup, too, but I'm not really familiar with her acting.
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Sally Dexter is great! I think she's also a theatre actress, but I've only seen her on TV (obviously, since I don't live in UK!). She was in an obscure and wery weird and surreal UK TV series called Night and Day, which I really loved - and she was a real dragon lady if there ever was one! She can be scary, hilarious and tragic at the same time. Her character was very complex and troubled and she got to chew scenery - in a most positive sense of the word - lots of times, since her character is faced with a traumatic event and loses her marbles a lot during the series. I often hated her, loved her and pitied her all at the same time.

PSGarak said:
I could also see Naprem presenting one face to Dukat yet being completely different when not around him. He's too self-absorbed to be able to tell the difference. Actually, I'll rephrase that just a bit. He's intelligent enough to tell the difference but too egotistical to try.
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But would he like her always to be submissive, or would be get tired of her after a while? Maybe he'd find a bit of a challenge more exciting? After all, we know that Cardassian flirting consists of quarelling and antagonistic behavior. And Dukat certainly always seemed to get turned on by Nerys' antagonism. I think that, as a man who gets off on power, he wanted Nerys so badly because she presented a challenge - trying to seduce her was basically trying to subdue her.
 
DevilEyes said:
But would he like her always to be submissive, or would be get tired of her after a while? Maybe he'd find a bit of a challenge more exciting? After all, we know that Cardassian flirting consists of quarelling and antagonistic behavior. And Dukat certainly always seemed to get turned on by Nerys' antagonism. I think that, as a man who gets off on power, he wanted Nerys so badly because she presented a challenge - trying to seduce her was basically trying to subdue her.
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I always got the feeling it was one of those situations of just wanting something you can't have. I think if he ever did manage to get Kira the way he wanted her, he would've lost interest after that because all he saw of her was the challenge. He didn't have the slightest interest in who she was.
 
PSGarak said:
DevilEyes said:
But would he like her always to be submissive, or would be get tired of her after a while? Maybe he'd find a bit of a challenge more exciting? After all, we know that Cardassian flirting consists of quarelling and antagonistic behavior. And Dukat certainly always seemed to get turned on by Nerys' antagonism. I think that, as a man who gets off on power, he wanted Nerys so badly because she presented a challenge - trying to seduce her was basically trying to subdue her.
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I always got the feeling it was one of those situations of just wanting something you can't have. I think if he ever did manage to get Kira the way he wanted her, he would've lost interest after that because all he saw of her was the challenge. He didn't have the slightest interest in who she was.
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I think it was mostly because, to him, she represented Bajoran Resistance. She represented the Bajor that never accepted him, while in his mind they should have seen him as a good guy, savior and protector. She was the ultimate challenge, if he could get someone like her, of all people, to accept him and like him, for him it would have been, in a way, like getting this kind of acceptance, acknowledgement and love from Bajor. I think Kira was aware of that - if memory serves (I don't remember her exact words), in one of the early season 6 episodes (was it "A Time to Stand"?) she said what he really wanted from her was forgiveness for the occupation and that she won't give it to him? Although forgiveness isn't the right word, since he never seemed to feel guilty, it was more a case of achieving a victory - "The true victory is to make your enemies realize that they were wrong to oppose you in the first place".

From one of Ron Moore's answers to fan questions

Ron Moore said:
Is he attracted to Kira?
Yes. Does he also hate her? Yes. Are the two feelings contradictory?
Yes. And No. He can want her and hate her all at the same time -- that's
an element of his complexity. The same holds true for his feelings about
Sisko (respect and contempt) and the Dominion (glad they're restoring
Cardassia, angry they're calling the shots).
Click to expand...
 
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Moore makes a lot of sense there. Wanting someone and hating someone aren't mutually exclusive. It's not healthy, but it's certainly possible. If I had to describe Dukat in one word I'd say "ambivalent", Garak "ambiguous".
 
I remembered that! And I actually WAS kind of appalled. I mean, if they ACTUALLY gave that to him as his name tag...all I can say is, they had better have been ready to provide evidence. (Now, TRUTH is Garak WAS an oppressor. The problem was, the way it came off, it seemed like they would've done that to ANY Cardassian regardless of his or her actual record.)
 
Nerys Ghemor said:
I remembered that! And I actually WAS kind of appalled. I mean, if they ACTUALLY gave that to him as his name tag...all I can say is, they had better have been ready to provide evidence. (Now, TRUTH is Garak WAS an oppressor. The problem was, the way it came off, it seemed like they would've done that to ANY Cardassian regardless of his or her actual record.)
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The one thing that genuinely redeemed Garak for me was his absolute love of Cardassia and the fact that he was willing and able to see when it got off course and to make an effort to correct that course. I never got a sense that he enjoyed inflicting pain (except when he was accidentally high on drugs, and drugs screw even with people who have much more stable personalities than he had), only that he was willing to do whatever he saw as necessary.

Unlike Dukat, he was aware he was a monster. He took no pride in it, but he also made no apologies for it. Being raised by Tain, I don't think he was capable of seeing things any differently. CIA types and covert ops types are very carefully broken and put back together again specifically to remove inhibitions against doing sometimes very ugly things. When he could take the path of lesser destruction, he did, and I believe he genuinely came to like and care for Bashir as a true friend and Odo to a lesser extent as an equal.

It's easy to be decent when you're raised to it. It takes a lot more character to find ways to be decent when it goes against everything you've been taught to value and to be able to adapt your world view to something less harsh. That's what I appreciate about Garak. He made that effort, and he succeeded.
 
Nerys Ghemor said:
Succeeded? What makes you say he succeeded? I don't think I see that, myself.
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I got the impression that he actually did let Bashir in. For someone who equates trust with death, I call that a success. I also got the impression when he left and returned to Cardassia that he was doing so with full awareness of what past policies cost the Union and was determined not to see the same mistakes made twice.
 
I had to laugh, although the chap did not comport himself as a Cardassian should. Where is the unbridled arrogance, the smooth confidence and the effortless skill at speaking? ;)
 
Thor Damar said:
I had to laugh, although the chap did not comport himself as a Cardassian should. Where is the unbridled arrogance, the smooth confidence and the effortless skill at speaking? ;)
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He's obviously still a student. He hasn't graduated yet, and perhaps he has yet to reach his Oratory classes, although unless he can greatly improve upon his natural delivery, I would recommend a desk job in the Ministry of Finance, perhaps.
 
PSGarak said:
Thor Damar said:
I had to laugh, although the chap did not comport himself as a Cardassian should. Where is the unbridled arrogance, the smooth confidence and the effortless skill at speaking? ;)
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He's obviously still a student. He hasn't graduated yet, and perhaps he has yet to reach his Oratory classes, although unless he can greatly improve upon his natural delivery, I would recommend a desk job in the Ministry of Finance, perhaps.
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But Cardassian education starts so early--he should've been more capable than that! :p

And PSGarak...personally, I am not sure if he let Bashir in, or if he just played Bashir as a sort of "lapdog" or "companion animal".
 
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