Writers Untie...er, Unite!

[sojourner]

I would love to write and have tried lots of times. I find my biggest problem is getting it out. For example the July contest. I had a couple different ideas and one I even decided would work, but I ran into my usual problem. I started typing and got about half a page in when I started getting ahead of myself typing so to speak. I sort of "zone out" into a deep daydreaming state and loose interest in typing as I get farther ahead in the story to the point it feels like I won't catch up by typing. It all turns into a daydreaming session and never gets recorded. Lots of starts, no finishes.

 

[PSGarak]

I would love to write and have tried lots of times. I find my biggest problem is getting it out. For example the July contest. I had a couple different ideas and one I even decided would work, but I ran into my usual problem. I started typing and got about half a page in when I started getting ahead of myself typing so to speak. I sort of "zone out" into a deep daydreaming state and loose interest in typing as I get farther ahead in the story to the point it feels like I won't catch up by typing. It all turns into a daydreaming session and never gets recorded. Lots of starts, no finishes.

Have you ever considered making yourself sit down with a pen and paper, or pencil and paper for this initial planning stage/draft part of it? I find that physically writing things out slows my brain if my thoughts are racing ahead too much. I think more quickly than I type, yes, but I find there's not as much of a brain/body disconnect with the physical act of writing.

I don't mean write the whole story in hard copy before going for a typing session. You could even give yourself bulletin points to develop off of paper into the typing phase. View each separate point as a unique start and finish line that you must cross before moving on to the next. It may work, may not, but it will at least be a new approach to a recurring issue for you.

 

[jamestyler]

The Federation is full of bullshit. There are people around who are fully devoted to its ideals, sure, but there's always seemed to be just as many who pay lip service to its ideals while doing what they feel is necessary under the radar. Not just Section 31-type stuff, either -- normal starship captains, doctors, ensigns, enlisted, etc. -- even admirals, though they tend to be noisier about it. I won't argue that one side or the other is right because I see both sides. But not everyone in Starfleet is a "true believer."

That's part of my interpretation. I was discussing TNG with a friend the other night and we both hated their idealistic view of things. Not only does a flawed government seem more believable, it's also far more interesting.

The great thing about having a detailed outline is that you know exactly what you have to write next and that makes things very easy once you get going. And even though everything is nicely outlined it doesn't mean everything is necessarily written in stone.

I've done that and I agree with the time it takes... I still do it to an extend, though much like hellsgate's flow chart idea it gets chopped up and mixed around as time progresses in the actual writing.

I think thats why I end up with so many notes - I said on my site when I started uploading Year One that there would likely be more notes than there would story as the overall and personal outlines, concepts, pieces of dialoge and even sketches and reference materials (mostly made so I don't write things like names/dates etc differently) took up a hel of a lot of time. It seems pointless to some, though it helped me a great deal.

Now I have the outline scribbled in a folder and track alterations on my laptop as I'm editing/re-writing.

Style-wise, I like to write in "real life", and what I mean by that is, that I write dialogue with the same pacing and feel as if you were seeing someone speak in a real conversation.

I think thats one reason I was very cautious or hesitant to even contemplate putting my stuff online until I was nagged into it - I'll have conversations in my head to try and work out the most natural way to speak. When I decided to do Trek I took on board the dialogue styles (acting always seemed more stage than screen) and opted to disregard it for the type of conversations I'd have.

I tend to have a clear vision of what people look like, accents etc which helps... well, it helps me figure out what words sound good to the imaginary voice they have in my head. One being the easiest as he has my own accent

At the same time I don't take myself seriously whatsoever. I don't expect anyone to read or care about what I've done - which free's me a little to add little things that will amuse me, or write whole scenes where conversations have very little point. Just two people chatting and hopefully whoevers foolish enough to read getting to know the chracter before anything happens to them.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

A lot of times the problem that I face is I'll get this really great idea and I'll think that I'll publish a book and I'll be sipping a martini within the hour, but then I sit down and stare at the blank Word Processor document and realize I have no idea how I'm going to tell my story. Best-case scenario, I end up with a horrible one-page summary of what happens. I'll file it away with the promise I'll work on it tommorow and soon I forget what the story's even about.

 

[PSGarak]

A lot of times the problem that I face is I'll get this really great idea and I'll think that I'll publish a book and I'll be sipping a martini within the hour, but then I sit down and stare at the blank Word Processor document and realize I have no idea how I'm going to tell my story. Best-case scenario, I end up with a horrible one-page summary of what happens. I'll file it away with the promise I'll work on it tommorow and soon I forget what the story's even about.

False starts aren't at all uncommon. I have whole stacks of notebooks filled with such things, just two or three pages of something written where I either lost interest, got really stuck, or got busy/distracted with something more pressing like paying the bills. Even if you're not getting anywhere with it yet, I'd say don't give up on yourself. It may take you a long while to come up with something that truly excites you and speaks to you enough to motivate you to stick with it.

In the mean time, consider all those ideas and outlines as fertile ground for something better to spring from. You might go back over them a few months later with a fresh perspective, realize that there is a way to work it, and before you know it, you'll have a story.

 

[Thor Damar]

Well as a unaccomplished fanfic writer myself I have several observations with regards to this field.

I have never really planed any of my work as I base it on an initial idea and then write almost on a ad hoc basis. It does have it's advantages as I can change direction or characters but it also meets that there may not be the necessary bedrock.

My problems with putting pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard as it were) means that it takes me a long time in between updates. For example my fanfic Checkmate will often go many weeks without a single update. This is mostly due to my worries about grammar and spelling which really hinders me in my writing, alas.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Thor Damar--you might just need to go ahead and write, and then clean up your writing afterwards or get a beta-reader to help you with that aspect until you get more comfortable with it. No reason that should stop the ideas--I'm pretty sure there are professional authors who needed help with their spelling! This IS the English language we're talking about, after all!

 

[PSGarak]

Thor Damar--you might just need to go ahead and write, and then clean up your writing afterwards or get a beta-reader to help you with that aspect until you get more comfortable with it. No reason that should stop the ideas--I'm pretty sure there are professional authors who needed help with their spelling! This IS the English language we're talking about, after all!

I agree. There's no shame in asking for help when it comes to technical issues, and there are plenty of people out there willing to offer it. I've done this for folks in the past and don't mind lending a hand. I don't usually have as much free time on my hands as I have lately, but I never get so busy sitting down and doing a little editing would be problematic.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The Federation is full of bullshit. There are people around who are fully devoted to its ideals, sure, but there's always seemed to be just as many who pay lip service to its ideals while doing what they feel is necessary under the radar. Not just Section 31-type stuff, either -- normal starship captains, doctors, ensigns, enlisted, etc. -- even admirals, though they tend to be noisier about it. I won't argue that one side or the other is right because I see both sides. But not everyone in Starfleet is a "true believer."

That's part of my interpretation. I was discussing TNG with a friend the other night and we both hated their idealistic view of things. Not only does a flawed government seem more believable, it's also far more interesting.

The great thing about having a detailed outline is that you know exactly what you have to write next and that makes things very easy once you get going. And even though everything is nicely outlined it doesn't mean everything is necessarily written in stone.

I've done that and I agree with the time it takes... I still do it to an extend, though much like hellsgate's flow chart idea it gets chopped up and mixed around as time progresses in the actual writing.

I think thats why I end up with so many notes - I said on my site when I started uploading Year One that there would likely be more notes than there would story as the overall and personal outlines, concepts, pieces of dialoge and even sketches and reference materials (mostly made so I don't write things like names/dates etc differently) took up a hel of a lot of time. It seems pointless to some, though it helped me a great deal.

Now I have the outline scribbled in a folder and track alterations on my laptop as I'm editing/re-writing.

Style-wise, I like to write in "real life", and what I mean by that is, that I write dialogue with the same pacing and feel as if you were seeing someone speak in a real conversation.

I think thats one reason I was very cautious or hesitant to even contemplate putting my stuff online until I was nagged into it - I'll have conversations in my head to try and work out the most natural way to speak. When I decided to do Trek I took on board the dialogue styles (acting always seemed more stage than screen) and opted to disregard it for the type of conversations I'd have.

I tend to have a clear vision of what people look like, accents etc which helps... well, it helps me figure out what words sound good to the imaginary voice they have in my head. One being the easiest as he has my own accent

At the same time I don't take myself seriously whatsoever. I don't expect anyone to read or care about what I've done - which free's me a little to add little things that will amuse me, or write whole scenes where conversations have very little point. Just two people chatting and hopefully whoevers foolish enough to read getting to know the chracter before anything happens to them.

Great stuff..

For me? I don't use an outline. I create scenes in my mind, and then just write how I saw the scene. I try to keep the each segment to no more than 2000 words, usually less, because any more than that and I tire of what i am writing about, and also lends it self to the serial aspect.

HOWEVER...I do love to read the stories that are more detailed and more length. I just don't have the talent for that kind of writing myself, so I love to read those who do....

Rob

 

[bluedana]

I'm not nearly as prolific or semi-professional as most of the folks on this board. When I do write fanfic, I have a proposed road map in my head, and I may give myself a loose written outline in bullet form. Then I just write it scene by scene, and if I write something that doesn't fit right there, I keep it in a "pieces" file until I figure out if/where it goes in the story. I think I may be a little OCD in my writing, because I'm constantly re-reading earlier chapters and adding/tinkering/editing. I have a full time job and 3 school aged kids, so it can take me a year or more to get from concept to finished story.

As for inspiration, I typically write ENT fanfic (yes, it's lonely out here), and sometimes a whole story will come out of a pause between lines, or a guest character, where I'm asking myself, hey, what's the deal here? As others have said, if I can hear the actors' voice reading my lines then I know I've hit it correctly. I'm always careful about original characters because I don't want to create Mary Sues, but I think I've come up with a few good ones. I find writing established characters is easier because I have a baseline: if I'm not sure if the character would do or say something in particular, I can go back to an episode for precedent so that it's at least consistent with what we know about the character.

Reading this post over is a little embarrassing - the hobby that I use to keep myself sane is really important to me as a person - and sometimes I can be a little obsessive about it, but really amounts to a speck in the universe. My husband hasn't even ever read my stuff (not that I know of, anyway).

 

[kes7]

I'm not nearly as prolific or semi-professional as most of the folks on this board. When I do write fanfic, I have a proposed road map in my head, and I may give myself a loose written outline in bullet form. Then I just write it scene by scene, and if I write something that doesn't fit right there, I keep it in a "pieces" file until I figure out if/where it goes in the story. I think I may be a little OCD in my writing, because I'm constantly re-reading earlier chapters and adding/tinkering/editing. I have a full time job and 3 school aged kids, so it can take me a year or more to get from concept to finished story.

As for inspiration, I typically write ENT fanfic (yes, it's lonely out here), and sometimes a whole story will come out of a pause between lines, or a guest character, where I'm asking myself, hey, what's the deal here? As others have said, if I can hear the actors' voice reading my lines then I know I've hit it correctly. I'm always careful about original characters because I don't want to create Mary Sues, but I think I've come up with a few good ones. I find writing established characters is easier because I have a baseline: if I'm not sure if the character would do or say something in particular, I can go back to an episode for precedent so that it's at least consistent with what we know about the character.

Reading this post over is a little embarrassing - the hobby that I use to keep myself sane is really important to me as a person - and sometimes I can be a little obsessive about it, but really amounts to a speck in the universe. My husband hasn't even ever read my stuff (not that I know of, anyway).

I could have written almost this whole post. Only differences being that I don't write ENT (I'd love to read it, though!), and I only have two kids and work part-time. But the rest of it kind of makes me wish you lived next door so we could talk Trek and writing and let the kids run wild.

 

[PSGarak]

I'm not nearly as prolific or semi-professional as most of the folks on this board. When I do write fanfic, I have a proposed road map in my head, and I may give myself a loose written outline in bullet form. Then I just write it scene by scene, and if I write something that doesn't fit right there, I keep it in a "pieces" file until I figure out if/where it goes in the story. I think I may be a little OCD in my writing, because I'm constantly re-reading earlier chapters and adding/tinkering/editing. I have a full time job and 3 school aged kids, so it can take me a year or more to get from concept to finished story.

As for inspiration, I typically write ENT fanfic (yes, it's lonely out here), and sometimes a whole story will come out of a pause between lines, or a guest character, where I'm asking myself, hey, what's the deal here? As others have said, if I can hear the actors' voice reading my lines then I know I've hit it correctly. I'm always careful about original characters because I don't want to create Mary Sues, but I think I've come up with a few good ones. I find writing established characters is easier because I have a baseline: if I'm not sure if the character would do or say something in particular, I can go back to an episode for precedent so that it's at least consistent with what we know about the character.

Reading this post over is a little embarrassing - the hobby that I use to keep myself sane is really important to me as a person - and sometimes I can be a little obsessive about it, but really amounts to a speck in the universe. My husband hasn't even ever read my stuff (not that I know of, anyway).

Hey, no need to be embarrassed! If you love writing, you're a writer. It doesn't matter if you're the only person who ever reads your work, or if you produce one work for every 10-15 of somebody else's. Writing by its very nature is somewhat self-reflective, and your creative work is no less important than anyone else's, published or not.

One thing you said that really resonated with me is that it keeps you sane. There have been very few times in my life when I wasn't actively writing, a few painful stretches of writer's block and some times when life was simply way too hectic and stressful to allow me the time and mental focus. I missed it horribly, and it was a relief to be able to get back to it. I think it's awesome you balance a busy family life and still take time out to do something important for yourself. What a great example to set for your kids!

 

[BolianAuthor]

RobertScorpio, why even try to confine your posts to a certain word count? Usually when that happens, don't you feel that the post "feels" more intentionally constructed, as if you HAD to write it around a word count? I would think that just up and writing it as it flows would give it a much more natural feel. I mean, I wouldn't know, because like I said, I totally ignore word counts, so let me know if you think it makes the post feel any different, or less natural.

 

[RobertScorpio]

RobertScorpio, why even try to confine your posts to a certain word count? Usually when that happens, don't you feel that the post "feels" more intentionally constructed, as if you HAD to write it around a word count? I would think that just up and writing it as it flows would give it a much more natural feel. I mean, I wouldn't know, because like I said, I totally ignore word counts, so let me know if you think it makes the post feel any different, or less natural.

Bolian, your story is probably the best on this board. So whatever you do just keep doing it. I think your BSG is superior than Moore's. I am about five segments behind and will catch up this weekend, if my son doesn't make me take him to sea world again..

I know that my own writing skills are not that honed. So, for me, 2000 words a segment is long enough before I start to zone out. And since I don't have the ability to flesh out scenes like you, and Mistral for example, and Graywind's Air Bender as well, it serves me well to get in and get out so I can pace the story.

In fact, I am quite amazed at how good most of the writing is here and on Ad Astra. I don't review as much as I did before because I don't want to offend anyone by not reviewing their stuff. And since there are so many different STAR TREK universes (luckily your BSG is its own universe) that at times, I forget which universe I am in when I am reading (which made the "Universe Cross-over" story at Ad Astra so fun to read)

Anyway...I would agree. Word limits are probably not the way to go if you're someone who is really good at writing, and you definately are!

Rob

 

[BolianAuthor]

RobertScorpio, why even try to confine your posts to a certain word count? Usually when that happens, don't you feel that the post "feels" more intentionally constructed, as if you HAD to write it around a word count? I would think that just up and writing it as it flows would give it a much more natural feel. I mean, I wouldn't know, because like I said, I totally ignore word counts, so let me know if you think it makes the post feel any different, or less natural.

Bolian, your story is probably the best on this board. So whatever you do just keep doing it. I think your BSG is superior than Moore's. I am about five segments behind and will catch up this weekend, if my son doesn't make me take him to sea world again..

I know that my own writing skills are not that honed. So, for me, 2000 words a segment is long enough before I start to zone out. And since I don't have the ability to flesh out scenes like you, and Mistral for example, and Graywind's Air Bender as well, it serves me well to get in and get out so I can pace the story.

In fact, I am quite amazed at how good most of the writing is here and on Ad Astra. I don't review as much as I did before because I don't want to offend anyone by not reviewing their stuff. And since there are so many different STAR TREK universes (luckily your BSG is its own universe) that at times, I forget which universe I am in when I am reading (which made the "Universe Cross-over" story at Ad Astra so fun to read)

Anyway...I would agree. Word limits are probably not the way to go if you're someone who is really good at writing, and you definately are!

Rob

WOW... I mean... wow! Thank you so much, for those very very kind words! That is probably the single best compliment anyone could give me, really... I am truly honored and humbled, that you like my work so much. Thank you.

I can understand about zoning out. Usually, I only write posts when I'm "in the groove", or have a rush of inspiration... otherwise, I step back, and listen to music or something, to inspire me.

I can understand your position on reviews, but I like to get as much feedback from my readership as possible, not out of vanity, but because I just want to know what people are thinking, and if they have any questions they'd like cleared up. BSG Urantia is set in the same universe as RDM's BSG, it just tells a somewhat different story, and I'm just thankful that so far, people at least seem to be enjoying it. I'm overjoyed that you certainly are!

Again, a very deeply felt thank you for the awesome compliments, and just keep writing whatever you feel. I know it'll pay off.

 

[RobertScorpio]

RobertScorpio, why even try to confine your posts to a certain word count? Usually when that happens, don't you feel that the post "feels" more intentionally constructed, as if you HAD to write it around a word count? I would think that just up and writing it as it flows would give it a much more natural feel. I mean, I wouldn't know, because like I said, I totally ignore word counts, so let me know if you think it makes the post feel any different, or less natural.

Bolian, your story is probably the best on this board. So whatever you do just keep doing it. I think your BSG is superior than Moore's. I am about five segments behind and will catch up this weekend, if my son doesn't make me take him to sea world again..

I know that my own writing skills are not that honed. So, for me, 2000 words a segment is long enough before I start to zone out. And since I don't have the ability to flesh out scenes like you, and Mistral for example, and Graywind's Air Bender as well, it serves me well to get in and get out so I can pace the story.

In fact, I am quite amazed at how good most of the writing is here and on Ad Astra. I don't review as much as I did before because I don't want to offend anyone by not reviewing their stuff. And since there are so many different STAR TREK universes (luckily your BSG is its own universe) that at times, I forget which universe I am in when I am reading (which made the "Universe Cross-over" story at Ad Astra so fun to read)

Anyway...I would agree. Word limits are probably not the way to go if you're someone who is really good at writing, and you definately are!

Rob

WOW... I mean... wow! Thank you so much, for those very very kind words! That is probably the single best compliment anyone could give me, really... I am truly honored and humbled, that you like my work so much. Thank you.

I can understand about zoning out. Usually, I only write posts when I'm "in the groove", or have a rush of inspiration... otherwise, I step back, and listen to music or something, to inspire me.

I can understand your position on reviews, but I like to get as much feedback from my readership as possible, not out of vanity, but because I just want to know what people are thinking, and if they have any questions they'd like cleared up. BSG Urantia is set in the same universe as RDM's BSG, it just tells a somewhat different story, and I'm just thankful that so far, people at least seem to be enjoying it. I'm overjoyed that you certainly are!

Again, a very deeply felt thank you for the awesome compliments, and just keep writing whatever you feel. I know it'll pay off.

Its all well deserved. In fact, I have often wondered about you, or Nerys Ghemor, Graywin, Watson (omitting so many so I feel guilty) if you have all taken classes because, wow, you are all so good!

And with your BSG, how in the hell do you take it to so many different areas? That is why I think your BSG is so well read. Its that good. So do tell!!! where did you learn to write like that?

Rob

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

Heh, well, in regards to BSG Urantia, I use the approach I mentioned early in the thread, plain and simple... I do my ABSOLUTE hardest, to just make sure that everything in Urantia reads, looks, sounds, feels, or tastes, like actual real RDM BSG. That is really all I do. I write for the setting. When I write for the Colonials, you know it. When I write for the Cylons, you know it. With the Emilon pilgrims, I'm going for a pioneer-era Irish settler feel, so I try to give their culture and speech that pioneer-era Celtic feel. Again, listening to old-world Irish folk music and colonial and pioneer-era American music has helped a LOT, in this regard.

As for basic writing, I never had any classes, or training. My training is in TV script format. One day, I just decided I wanted to finally get my story out and posted, so I simply sat down, and started writing. And here I am, in great thanks to all of you, my readers, who have read and (hopefully) enjoyed my work.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^

Heh, well, in regards to BSG Urantia, I use the approach I mentioned early in the thread, plain and simple... I do my ABSOLUTE hardest, to just make sure that everything in Urantia reads, looks, sounds, feels, or tastes, like actual real RDM BSG. That is really all I do. I write for the setting. When I write for the Colonials, you know it. When I write for the Cylons, you know it. With the Emilon pilgrims, I'm going for a pioneer-era Irish settler feel, so I try to give their culture and speech that pioneer-era Celtic feel. Again, listening to old-world Irish folk music and colonial and pioneer-era American music has helped a LOT, in this regard.

As for basic writing, I never had any classes, or training. My training is in TV script format. One day, I just decided I wanted to finally get my story out and posted, so I simply sat down, and started writing. And here I am, in great thanks to all of you, my readers, who have read and (hopefully) enjoyed my work.

One thing you got down, as did Moore, was the military feel of being on a Battlestar. I was in the navy for over twenty-years, and most of that time was spent on Air Craft Carriers. Your story really has that 'navy' feel to it. Adds much to the feel of the story!

Rob

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

Again, a big thank you! BTW... you're in San Diego. I'm in Torrance... you should have PM'd me, and we could have gone to the last BSG concert together!

 

[RobertScorpio]

^

Again, a big thank you! BTW... you're in San Diego. I'm in Torrance... you should have PM'd me, and we could have gone to the last BSG concert together!

Did you get to go to it? I won back stage passes from a local radio show, and I actually got to SHAKE hands with Grace Park. She was very nice, and happily, very flirty with the radio guys I was with and me. She's a crowd pleaser (and eye pleaser) too...

And I got to talk with Richard Hatch. I mentioned this elsewhere on BBS, Im sorry if it is a repeat. I really like Richard Hatch, and he even remembered me from a couple years back when we talked about Jack Lord and when Richard was on Hawaii Five-0.

Rob