Ascendants Discussion (Soul Key Spoilers Alert)

[LutherSloan]

Finished reading 'The Soul Key' the other day. I thought it was a bit interesting that the Ascendants kept making references to something known as 'The Fire', which apparently turns out to be a sort of Emmisary for their species. What was even more interesting, besides the fire reference, was the fact that they had possession of NINE RED ORBS. This certainly set off some alarm bells. Both of these things make it sound like the Ascendants are actually worshiping the Pah Wraiths, at least to me. The red orbs thing has been mentioned before as instruments of the Pah Wraiths, and just about every mention of them has something involving fire (ie. the Fire Caves on Bajor).

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Pah Wraiths are going to be involved in this whole Ascendant storyline? I would be shocked at this point if they weren't, considering all of the hints being dropped.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Finished reading 'The Soul Key' the other day. I thought it was a bit interesting that the Ascendants kept making references to something known as 'The Fire', which apparently turns out to be a sort of Emmisary for their species. What was even more interesting, besides the fire reference, was the fact that they had possession of NINE RED ORBS. This certainly set off some alarm bells. Both of these things make it sound like the Ascendants are actually worshiping the Pah Wraiths, at least to me. The red orbs thing has been mentioned before as instruments of the Pah Wraiths, and just about every mention of them has something involving fire (ie. the Fire Caves on Bajor).

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Pah Wraiths are going to be involved in this whole Ascendant storyline? I would be shocked at this point if they weren't, considering all of the hints being dropped.

The True Prophets of the Red Wormhole of Jalbador . I'm swearing by it until told otherwise by the books themselves. Reread the "Millennium" trilogy, especially the epilogue. There have been hints at connections since day one of the relaunch. Jake at B'hala, then new prophecies, a trip through the wormhole- all mentioned there. And any issues with continuity in other areas become meaningless given the whole point of that epilogue. The Ascendants worship the "True", have the technology to destroy stars, possess red orbs (as you say)....I'm convinced there must be a connection.

 

[LutherSloan]

Here is the mention, on the second to last page of 'The Soul Key', about the Nine 'Eyes of Fire', as the Ascendants call them:

p. 300

Once there had been nine. It was said that in ancient times, the Eyes burned with inner Fire of the True, and through them the Unnameable had watched their followers, and sometimes spoke to them by imparting dreams. But that was before the crusade against the Eav'oq had turned knight against knight, devastating the Ascendants' homeworld but purifying its survivors. Eight of the Eyes had been lost in the conflagration, and the last one- this one- had been dark ever since.

I had forgotten that eight of them were destroyed.

 

[Thor Damar]

Interesting, so the Ori, I mean Pah-wraiths are behind the Ascendancy? but most are still sealed forever in the Fire Caves (or are they....)

I though it would be more interesting to have the Ascendants worship the prophets that we all know and are exasperated by, it would be an interesting take on the nature of omnipotent beings.

 

[rahullak]

I think the True are an "ancient off-shoot" of the Pah-Wraiths, that are not as "peaceful" as the Pah-Wraiths

 

[Marie1]

IIRC, I was under the impression from their mention in Rising Son that there were tied to the Pah Wraiths or something- especially after their interactions with Opaka. That's why what's going on the GQ isn't just about the Dominion, it affects Bajor, which is why in the story, Bajor had to be tied to the Federation- not just an event a long time coming, but to put down the Ascendants, I'd imagine they Federation and Dominion at least will have to join forces- and Taran'atar will probably need to assist in that.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think the True are an "ancient off-shoot" of the Pah-Wraiths, that are not as "peaceful" as the Pah-Wraiths

Well, the Millennium Trilogy suggested two groups of Pah-Wraiths--the Kosst Amojan, which were indeed imprisoned in the Fire Caves, and the actual Pah-Wraiths, that had their own wormhole...

 

[KingstonTrekker]

This all sounds like more of the same confusing, convoluted, uninteresting plotlines that have mired the DS9 Relaunch since Unity.

Let's skip the Ascendants (or wrap it up quickly) and head on to post-Destiny...

 

[DS9Continuing]

Frankly, I didn't really like that aspect of Millenium, but I will grant that it's an interesting direction to go.

But that quote that LutherSloan gave us doesn't actually say the Ascendants' Orbs were red, does it? Unless there's another line that does state that. It just says they glowed with fire, which doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.

Marco always said that the epilogue of Millenium was kind of a prologue or an inspiration for the relaunch, so it would be interesting to see that finally come true.

Also of note is the fact that in the alternate future protrayed in Millenium, the Bajoran state becomes known as the Bajoran Ascendancy. Marco claimed it was an unintentional coincidence, and maybe it was at the time, but that doesn't stop him deciding to make use of it later.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Remember that each of the cultures who worship the Prophets see them a different way. The Bajorans look to them as Gods. The Eav'oQ see them as teachers, and it is possible that at some point long in the past the Prophets did actually interfere in mortal lives (much more so than now) and the Ascendants saw the Prophets as fiery retribution, which their culture grew up around.

I still say we're actually missing the Hebitians in this, and perhaps TNES will fill in that little gap. It would make Bajor and Cardassia much closer than anyone might have thought, and Dukat can turn in his Fire Cave.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I still say we're actually missing the Hebitians in this, and perhaps TNES will fill in that little gap. It would make Bajor and Cardassia much closer than anyone might have thought, and Dukat can turn in his Fire Cave.

The Hebitians had (Neo-Hebitians have)their own, distinct gods,though. We know there is some connection between Bajor and the Hebitian faith, but the Fates are clearly a very different type of being from the Wormhole aliens.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

But that quote that LutherSloan gave us doesn't actually say the Ascendants' Orbs were red, does it? Unless there's another line that does state that. It just says they glowed with fire, which doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.

Of course, I haven't got "The Soul Key" yet, so I might have to drop my "Millennium"-based theory if the details don't actually match what I've heard . There have been so many hints all through the relaunch though, and "Millennium's" themes and revelations tie in so well to the plots of the latest few books...

 

[BrotherBenny]

I still say we're actually missing the Hebitians in this, and perhaps TNES will fill in that little gap. It would make Bajor and Cardassia much closer than anyone might have thought, and Dukat can turn in his Fire Cave.

The Hebitians had (Neo-Hebitians have)their own, distinct gods,though. We know there is some connection between Bajor and the Hebitian faith, but the Fates are clearly a very different type of being from the Wormhole aliens.

Are they? Let's speculate that the Prophets tried to co-exist with the Ascendants and it didn't work so well, leading to a warrior-race hell bent on destroying the Celestial Temple or whatever. They tried again with the Hebitians and may have caused the Cataclysm, leading to the rise of Cardassians. Then they encountered both the Eav'oQ and Bajorans and kind of got the interaction to the level they were happy with.

 

[Marie1]

This all sounds like more of the same confusing, convoluted, uninteresting plotlines that have mired the DS9 Relaunch since Unity.

Let's skip the Ascendants (or wrap it up quickly) and head on to post-Destiny...

It sounds like it'll be wrapped up fast- but I don't think it'll be "confusing, convoluted, uninteresting plotlines" simply because it's... going somewhere. It started with a deadly attack on the Dominion that cannot remain unchallenged, and will probably result both in fundamental changes to the Dominion, but it will force them out of their isolation, by the sounds of things.

And it shouldn't be confusing- just big. They Ascendants want to purge people out of the galaxy who don't share their beliefs- they must be stopped...

 

[KingstonTrekker]

Good points -- the plotlines should (hopefully) be more sensical now that the MU stuff has been wrapped up.

 

[Marie1]

I really think it will be... and since we're in effect waiting for the "middle" (which is a bit unfortunate (that things will go whoosh- but you can only plague the galaxy with so many wars and horrors)) there is a limit to how twisted things can get...

As long as no one gets a stupid idea, like killing off all the Jem'Hadar. We will not fall!

 

[Stephen!]

Let's skip the Ascendants (or wrap it up quickly) and head on to post-Destiny...

Or events during Destiny itself. Since we don't yet know what was going on with the DS9 crew during the Borg invasion.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

You know what'd be funny?

If the next, post-Destiny DS9 book made mentions about how much danger there was during that whole "Ascendant fiasco", but it never gets mentioned what actually happened.

 

[Marie1]

^Don't even joke about that!!!!

 

[KingstonTrekker]

You know what'd be funny?

If the next, post-Destiny DS9 book made mentions about how much danger there was during that whole "Ascendant fiasco", but it never gets mentioned what actually happened.

That would be a PERFECT way to get past the recent disappointments of the DS9 Relaunch.