Data in Star Trek Countdown

[wamdue]

so ive finally taken the plunge and after 24 years ive bought my first graphic novel, Star Trek Countdown.

Ok im only at the end of Part 2 but one thing is bugging me, Data.

We see a panel of Spock wanting to compare notes with Data, but actually its not at all similar to when Spock was resuscitated, as is my understand Data killed B4.

As we know Data copied his neural net into B4 in Nemesis, and at the end we started to see Data surface with in him. (you guys all know this)

the problem is where Spock gave Bones has katra in, it drives Bones crazy (you have to wonder if Spocks Katra would have finally taken over Bones) its only for safe keeping, and it is removed before any permanent damage is done.

With Data/B4, Data apparntly fully takes over B4 and seemingly kills B4.

*realises this is the Tuvix debate*

what gives Data the right to exist anymore than B4, hell why does Data think B4s life is less worthy than his own, it seems like a funny attitude for him to take.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I didn't see or understand it as Data overwriting and killing B4.

I saw it as Data and B4 merging, creating a new complete android with the qualities of both and giving B4 the chance to live a life he otherwise would never have due to his limitations. Granted the new android is much more data than B4 but then B4's experiences and growth were very limited.

Besides wasn't Data's intention to make B4 fully functional and up to speed when he copied his neural net ?
He hardly knew he was going to die later or was he trying to kill B4.

 

[OmahaStar]

Depends on which version you want to go with. The novels say B4 went to be studied in a research center. The comic says Data's programming was put into B4's body. They're in different continuities, and the Data being alive thingy is ONLY in the comics continuity. It wasn't written by the movie folks, but by comics writers.

You can take it or leave it. Either way, it didn't happen on screen, so future writers can choose to ignore it.

 

[wamdue]

I didn't see or understand it as Data overwriting and killing B4.

I saw it as Data and B4 merging, creating a new complete android with the qualities of both and giving B4 the chance to live a life he otherwise would never have due to his limitations. Granted the new android is much more data than B4 but then B4's experiences and growth were very limited.

Besides wasn't Data's intention to make B4 fully functional and up to speed when he copied his neural net ?
He hardly knew he was going to die later or was he trying to kill B4.

that is maybe a better way of looking at it, but this complete new android is referred to as Data by Picard (who would know better, would this new android not have a new name) and has Datas service record, suggesting that it is ALOT more Data than B4.

and yes in Nemesis Data didnt think it would end up killing B4, but at some point when Datas personality comes out more, someone would have pointed out to him what was happening, and clearly decides that his life is worth more than B4s.

 

[CaptainDonovin]

B4 is Data. He was not killed, just deactivated. In Nemesis data did a transfer of his ..er Data into B4 but it didn't seem to work. At the end of the movie Picard was speaking with B4 & from what I gathered in Countdown Starfleet found a way to fully get Data's transfer to work.

Star Trek Online expanded on this in their Road to 2409 updates, weather we take this as accurate or now I guess is up to the individual.

 

[wamdue]

Depends on which version you want to go with. The novels say B4 went to be studied in a research center. The comic says Data's programming was put into B4's body. They're in different continuities, and the Data being alive thingy is ONLY in the comics continuity. It wasn't written by the movie folks, but by comics writers.

You can take it or leave it. Either way, it didn't happen on screen, so future writers can choose to ignore it.

I have not read any of the books, just Star Trek Countdown.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I didn't see or understand it as Data overwriting and killing B4.

I saw it as Data and B4 merging, creating a new complete android with the qualities of both and giving B4 the chance to live a life he otherwise would never have due to his limitations. Granted the new android is much more data than B4 but then B4's experiences and growth were very limited.

Besides wasn't Data's intention to make B4 fully functional and up to speed when he copied his neural net ?
He hardly knew he was going to die later or was he trying to kill B4.

that is maybe a better way of looking at it, but this complete new android is referred to as Data by Picard (who would know better, would this new android not have a new name) and has Datas service record, suggesting that it is ALOT more Data than B4.

We are in speculation territory here so... Who says the new android didn't decide itself to take the Data name ?
And since the new android has all of Data's old memories and capabilities as well as B4's (and surely we have to assume starfleet examined and evaluated him), then I don't see why he shouldn't have the old service record.
Just like Spock after his...resurrection.
What would they do ? Send him back to the Academy ? It's all already there.

and yes in Nemesis Data didnt think it would end up killing B4, but at some point when Datas personality comes out more, someone would have pointed out to him what was happening, and clearly decides that his life is worth more than B4s.

As for the personality, all we get is a few lyrics of a song and that is after Data's death.
I'm not quite sure what you wanted Data to do at that point.

 

[iguana_tonante]

They could have built another android body and transfer the consciousness of Data into this new hardware, while B4 was still happy at home playing with hist Play-Doh.

 

[wamdue]

As for the personality, all we get is a few lyrics of a song and that is after Data's death.
I'm not quite sure what you wanted Data to do at that point.

well no not at that point, but at the point where it stops being B4 starts to act like Data, but its actually Data being the dominant personality.

They could have built another android body and transfer the consciousness of Data into this new hardware, while B4 was still happy at home playing with hist Play-Doh.

agreed a 2nd body would be a better way to do this, we have seen Data create Lal, no reason he cant create a new body for B4.

Come to think of it maybe he did, and it was just not explained in the comic.

 

[SalvorHardin]

As for the personality, all we get is a few lyrics of a song and that is after Data's death.
I'm not quite sure what you wanted Data to do at that point.

well no not at that point, but at the point where it stops being B4 starts to act like Data, but its actually Data being the dominant personality.

I still don't get it.
Data died. He died before B4 showed any signs of accepting the memory/personality transfer. There was nothing Data could do.

They could have built another android body and transfer the consciousness of Data into this new hardware, while B4 was still happy at home playing with hist Play-Doh.

agreed a 2nd body would be a better way to do this, we have seen Data create Lal, no reason he cant create a new body for B4.

Come to think of it maybe he did, and it was just not explained in the comic.

But the memory/personality transfer had already taken place. From that point on they are starting to merge.
Who says they can even separate them at this point or that they even know how ?
Not to mention the difficulties of making a new body. Did Maddoxx make any progress in that area ?

 

[iguana_tonante]

agreed a 2nd body would be a better way to do this, we have seen Data create Lal, no reason he cant create a new body for B4.
Come to think of it maybe he did, and it was just not explained in the comic.

But the memory/personality transfer had already taken place. From that point on they are starting to merge.
Who says they can even separate them at this point or that they even know how ?
Not to mention the difficulties of making a new body. Did Maddoxx make any progress in that area ?

My answer is just: who knows? But there is nothing in the Countdown comics or in the Nemesis novelization that exclude that. I think it's the less bothering explanation (I don't really like the idea of Data overwhelming B4), so I'll stick with it.

 

[wamdue]

As for the personality, all we get is a few lyrics of a song and that is after Data's death.
I'm not quite sure what you wanted Data to do at that point.

well no not at that point, but at the point where it stops being B4 starts to act like Data, but its actually Data being the dominant personality.

I still don't get it.
Data died. He died before B4 showed any signs of accepting the memory/personality transfer. There was nothing Data could do.

yes there is nothing Data could do when his body died, but when he first became aware that he was alive in B4s body, he could have done something to try and protect B4 from dying.

 

[SalvorHardin]

well no not at that point, but at the point where it stops being B4 starts to act like Data, but its actually Data being the dominant personality.

I still don't get it.
Data died. He died before B4 showed any signs of accepting the memory/personality transfer. There was nothing Data could do.

yes there is nothing Data could do when his body died, but when he first became aware that he was alive in B4s body, he could have done something to try and protect B4 from dying.

But (according to my way of seeing this situation of course) there is no Data becoming aware he is in B4's body.

All that is being "born" there is the Data/B4 hybrid personality. Not 2 personalities independent of one another.

 

[ALF]

It boils down to personal canon.

Data as Captain of the Enterprise in the Countdown series makes watching Nemesis easier to take.

Much as The Good That Men Do makes These Are The Voyages easier to take.

And although I haven't read the DS9 relaunch novels, there's an answer to the Prophets-take-Sisko's-spirit ending of What You Leave Behind.

But it's interesting that Star Trek Online echos this continuity. Otherwise, as state above, if it's not onscreen it can be ignored by future writers.

 

[wamdue]

I still don't get it.
Data died. He died before B4 showed any signs of accepting the memory/personality transfer. There was nothing Data could do.

yes there is nothing Data could do when his body died, but when he first became aware that he was alive in B4s body, he could have done something to try and protect B4 from dying.

But (according to my way of seeing this situation of course) there is no Data becoming aware he is in B4's body.

All that is being "born" there is the Data/B4 hybrid personality. Not 2 personalities independent of one another.

that is one point of view, and one I do understand, but as ive said before creates a couple of issues.

ok you dont send the Data/B4 hybrid back to the academy but by the same token you dont give him command of a star ship, you dont know if the hybrid is stable, or what its new personality is like.

Also Data/Spock/Picard all talk like they are old friends, not like one of them is a new personality, which the Data/B4 hybrid would be.

 

[ALF]

I can't see that Data/B4 would be that different from Data. How many years passed between Nemesis and Countdown?

On the other hand, something huge must have happened for B4 to be considered Data and reclaimed his commission as an officer and then be promoted to Captain as Picard becomes an admiral (against Kirk's wishes!). I would like to see THAT become a subject of a graphic novel.

 

[Ovation]

Picard became an ambassador, not an admiral.

 

[SalvorHardin]

yes there is nothing Data could do when his body died, but when he first became aware that he was alive in B4s body, he could have done something to try and protect B4 from dying.

But (according to my way of seeing this situation of course) there is no Data becoming aware he is in B4's body.

All that is being "born" there is the Data/B4 hybrid personality. Not 2 personalities independent of one another.

that is one point of view, and one I do understand, but as ive said before creates a couple of issues.

ok you dont send the Data/B4 hybrid back to the academy but by the same token you dont give him command of a star ship, you dont know if the hybrid is stable, or what its new personality is like.

Also Data/Spock/Picard all talk like they are old friends, not like one of them is a new personality, which the Data/B4 hybrid would be.

There is a gap of about 8 years i believe between Nemesis and Countdown.
It seems like sufficient time for Starfleet to evaluate the new Data, his stability and see if he can be restored to his previous rank and status and even given command of the Enterprise.
We don't know when he made Captain so it's all open.

And why shouldn't Picard speak to Data as if they are old friends ? The old Data is in there even if a bit altered. And they probably had a few years after Nemesis to get reacquainted.

 

[wamdue]

And why shouldn't Picard speak to Data as if they are old friends ? The old Data is in there even if a bit altered. And they probably had a few years after Nemesis to get reacquainted.

agreed that 8 years would be enough time for the Data/B4 Hybrid to prove itself, and Sisko did sometimes speak to Jazida like his old male friend.

would have been nice if the comic had explained what happened a little better

 

[Jeri]

Data in Star Trek Countdown

...is hot. Very hot. And unlike Jessica Rabbit, he's both hot and drawn that way.