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We just got the Animated series........

Is this right? . . .
1. "Canon" in Star Trek means (live on-screen) events that should not be contradicted.

No. GR (and other creative controllers on various STs) have always maintained that each script is considered on its own merits, and if tinkering with previously established events/characters/tech makes a new script better, then that adjustment is made. eg. Spock claimed he had a human ancestor. The next year, we discovered it was his mother! Ancestor? "Journey to Babel" was a better script by ignoring the previous comment, even though it was still true, if not bizarre.

The writers of screen ST do not have to follow any law or directive about contradictions. Aired ST is filled with contradictions.

ST licensed tie-ins should not contradict canonical events at the time they are written/published.

The only reason canon was ever discussed with ST fans (at conventions where GR was appearing, and in Richard Arnold's column in "ST Communicator") was to stop them complaining when and if screened Star Trek was seemingly ignoring events/characters/tech that had been presented in a licensed tie-in.

If individual screenwriters want to reference something from a licensed tie-in they can, but they don't have to read them, know about them, or answer to them. Licensed tie-ins do not inform the parent series. After all, they're read by only 1% of the audience.

2. Licensed tie-ins may now refer to non-canonical events.
In the proposal vetting stage, and at the final manuscript vetting stage, the staff at CBS Consumer Products are sometimes again allowing the licensed tie-ins to refer to each other again, and to TAS. This more relaxed attitude has existed since GR's death in 1991. The memo that was issued by GR's then-ST Office (after the new licensing contracts in early 1989) had specifically quashed such attempts because it was felt, at the time, that some licensed tie-ins were departing too much from the parent series. There was a renewed insistence that TOS tie-ins be about "the big seven" TOS characters, and that TNG tie-ins be about the then-"big eight".

During the time of Richard Arnold's employment at Paramount (official title: ST Archivist), all ST licencees had to have their proposals and final manuscripts vetted by both Paula Block's Office (at then-Viacom/Paramount Consumer Products) and the Star Trek Office of GR (ie. Richard Arnold).

The success of book series such as "New Frontier", which has hardly any TNG characters in it, has enabled the licencess to push the envelope more and more. "New Frontier" would never have been approved in 1989-1991.

That is actually not very restrictive, which is probably a good thing. Man, if I were doing a religious studies Ph.D. this whole canon thing in Trek would be IT!
Paula Block, who only recently left her post at CBS Consumer Products, is a member of "first fandom". So is Margaret Clark, editor at Pocket Books. Each licensed tie-in in considered by CBS Consumer Products on a case by case basis as to what references will or won't be allowed. As fans and professionals in their fields, they are usually pretty good judges on what works.
 
Allow me to ask a clarification, since it seems canon-knowledgable folk are here.

Is this right? . . .

1. "Canon" in Star Trek means (live on-screen) events that should not be contradicted.

2. Licensed tie-ins may now refer to non-canonical events.

That is actually not very restrictive, which is probably a good thing. Man, if I were doing a religious studies Ph.D. this whole canon thing in Trek would be IT!
Technically... LEGALLY... they always could refer to events in other venues. PPC started... ahem... "strongly discouraging it" at one point, however. I suspect this was mainly due to some intellectual-property issues which were somewhat separate from "on-screen canon."

PPC knows, for instance, that they can't use "The Guardian of Forever" without credit (and $$$) going to Harlan Ellison. Yes, they own Star Trek, but his contractual situation gives him a very real degree of control over those characters and situations which were unique to "City."

The same also applies to other "non-canon" situations. Diane Duane may have invented a particular character who was never seen on-screen. Thus, nobody (not even PPC) could use that character without crediting (and almost certainly also paying) her.

There are some things that are sort of "semi-canon" which can be let slide. For instance... Jim Kirk's father was never named "George" on-screen until the most recent movie, but it's not as if "George" is a totally unique name, is it? Who's to say that the "novel-invented" George Kirk is the same guy as we saw in the recent flick? (In fact... alternative universe and all that... it's pretty clear he's NOT the same guy... potentially similar, but not the same.)

As far as I'm concerned, I treat TAS as "canon." But as "stylized canon," which has lost a bit in the translation. Same for many episode of TOS, or TNG, or any of the other series, or (to one extent or another) most of the flicks.
 
ST licensed tie-ins should not contradict canonical events at the time they are written/published.

. . . In the proposal vetting stage, and at the final manuscript vetting stage, the staff at CBS Consumer Products are sometimes again allowing the licensed tie-ins to refer to each other again, and to TAS.

This is very interesting. A pretty weak concept of "canon" actually, coming as I do partly from a theology background. It is not closed and not binding except on material that is noncanonical. Fascinating.

You are obviously knowledgable, not conjectural. Are you a writer or producer of licensed tie- in material?
 
Are you a writer or producer of licensed tie- in material?

Nope, but I've followed it closely since December 1979, and I know Richard Arnold (from annual ST conventions Down Under), and have discussed the issues with people like Susan Sackett, Bjo Trimble, Ernie Over and (when he was at DC Comics and writing for Pocket) Robert Greenberger.

I suspect this was mainly due to some intellectual-property issues which were somewhat separate from "on-screen canon."

No, it was mainly that GR felt, in 1988, that the licensed tie-ins were moving too far from the parent shows, ie. TOS and TNG.

The sloppy "ST Technical Manual" contract, signed when TOS was thought to be pretty much dead, did give Franz Joseph the right to license out his designs to the "Star Fleet Battles" gaming material producers. SFB began incorporating TAS elements, including Larry Niven's kzinti, and Niven hadn't expected his creation to end up in semi-licensed games over which GR, Paramount and Niven himself had no control. But that was long before 1989.

PPC knows, for instance, that they can't use "The Guardian of Forever" without credit (and $$$) going to Harlan Ellison. Yes, they own Star Trek, but his contractual situation gives him a very real degree of control over those characters and situations which were unique to "City."
That is Harlan Ellison's current claim, but it has not yet been tested in the courts.

The same also applies to other "non-canon" situations. Diane Duane may have invented a particular character who was never seen on-screen. Thus, nobody (not even PPC) could use that character without crediting (and almost certainly also paying) her.
Incorrect. The novelists' contracts specify that they are signing away all rights to the copyright owners. Paramount and CBS are free to use their material without credit or remuneration.

The only reason she's credited for TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before", which is based on her novel "The Wounded Sky", is because she was invited to pitch for the show and she pitched a shorter, filmable version of her own ST novel. The Traveler fills the role originally played by Duane's alien "glass spider" scientist character.

However, GR did get very angry, in the 1980s, when a convention flier landed on his desk proclaiming their Guest of Honor was "Diane Duane, creator of the Rihannsu". Not Duane's fault, but that's how they described her.

Who's to say that the "novel-invented" George Kirk is the same guy as we saw in the recent flick? (In fact... alternative universe and all that... it's pretty clear he's NOT the same guy... potentially similar, but not the same.)
The screenwriters have stated they took the name from the novels.
 
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So, a 1989 memo from GR's then-ST Office at Paramount respecified what was "canon". The Okudas were asked not to include TAS in the "ST Encyclopedia" or "ST Chronology", but they did get permission to reference Captain Robert April (using Roddenberry's own photo) and certain Vulcan aspects of the episode "Yesteryear".

As soon as GR passed away, though, in 1991, TAS aliens once again started turning up as references in the tie-ins, starting with the novelization of "Unification" (TNG).

So, for the most part, it's back in. But nothing official has ever come through from CBS or Paramount retracting the old memo.
Thanks. It should be canon
It has the voices of the original TOS actors reprising their characters in a different medium but still it is a motion picture storytelling medium.
 
I have read this thread, my mind is nearly dead. Who would have known that the episodes shown, would create such a stir...making our minds move in a blur. Oh well, I guess star trek XI has tried its best; to put this yo/yo continuity...to rest.


Whew..I made that up on the fly...no applause is needed..

Rob
 
It has the voices of the original TOS actors reprising their characters in a different medium but still it is a motion picture storytelling medium.

But then, so were the Las Vegas "ST Experience" rides, "Klingon Encounter" and "Borg 4D", new footage for the "Universal Studios" attraction, the CD-ROM games for "Klingon", "Borg", "Starfleet Academy" and "Klingon Academy", and the video components of the TNG video board game.
 
ST:TAS and canon

But then, so were the Las Vegas "ST Experience" rides, "Klingon Encounter" and "Borg 4D", new footage for the "Universal Studios" attraction, the CD-ROM games for "Klingon", "Borg", "Starfleet Academy" and "Klingon Academy", and the video components of the TNG video board game.
Was canon not always filmed motion picture-type medium Trek being television or theatrical feature film?
I believe it is only those two mediums that are considered canon.

Star Trek: The Animated Series actually aired on broadcast televsion in 1973.


It's former title was:
(formally entitled Star Trek), the Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek, was a continuation of the voyages of the USS Enterprise, previously featured in the original Star Trek series.

Some of the stories were sequels to episodes from the original series,
With the release of The Animated Series DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is leaning towards the animated series being part of established Star Trek canon. Previously, The Animated Series was not considered part of established Star Trek canon by Paramount Pictures. References from the series have gradually become more accepted in other Star Trek series, most notably on Deep Space Nine and Enterprise [1] [2] [3]
SOURCE
 
The first time I recall seeing the title The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek was on the VHS and laserdisc sets released around the time of ST V in 1989.

Interesting the way Roddenberry had it "decanonized" shortly thereafter.
 
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The first time I reacll seeing the title The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek was on the VHS and laserdisc sets released around the time of ST V in 1989.

Interesting the way Rodenberry had it "decanonized" shortly thereafter.

I remember watching it when it first aired. And back in those days, the early 70s, each network would have a special sneek peak preview on Friday night just before the new cartoon season started...

Rob
 
I haven't seen most episodes (yet). I knew about it in the 70s when I saw TOS in local syndication. Around the fall of 1976 TAS episodes were aired in the afternoon and I got to see part of "Infinite Vulcan" and "Yesteryear". A few months later I read sunposes of aother episodes in Trimble's Star Trek Concordance. Much more recently, I saw a few more episodes.
 
"Cannon" is what I shoot peeps with who try to tell that me every major Trek character out there doesn't have unknown siblings & offspring.
;)
 
Let's get this straight. Canon is what's onscreen, despite whatever some may claim otherwise. Canon is a matter of authenticity. What is "official" continuity is another matter and it's whatever TPTB decide whether it be an onscreen source or print source or whatever.

GR and the original cast were involved in TAS. And it appeared onscreen. It's canon in regards to Star Trek. Whether it's "officially" recognized is a completely different matter. The fact that later writers made references to elements of TAS makes any arguments that TAS doesn't count awfully hollow.

For myself the canon argument is stupid. For me what counts is what I think works. And I think that is true for every individual fan.
 
"Cannon" is what I shoot peeps with who try to tell that me every major Trek character out there doesn't have unknown siblings & offspring.
;)

Sybok was actually a circus performer after he left Vulcan. Shot from cannons, ironically.

Source: unpublished unlicensed tie-in in my head. But it's canon to me, so it is real.
 
The first time I reacll seeing the title The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek was on the VHS and laserdisc sets released around the time of ST V in 1989.

Interesting the way Rodenberry had it "decanonized" shortly thereafter.

I remember watching it when it first aired. And back in those days, the early 70s, each network would have a special sneek peak preview on Friday night just before the new cartoon season started...

Rob


I remember the two page ad spread comics would print in summer: CBS prepping us for their great lineup. Remember the Bob Denver space show (live action)? I actually liked Space Academy btw. AND Batman/Tarzan from Filmation used some of the same music cues as TAS. Those were the days.
 
Re: ST:TAS and canon

Was canon not always filmed motion picture-type medium Trek being television or theatrical feature film?
I believe it is only those two mediums that are considered canon.

Star Trek: The Animated Series actually aired on broadcast televsion in 1973.

The memo, as penned by Richard Arnold, for GR's ST Office in 1989, specified live-action, and as-screened, movies and episodes, produced by Desilu/Paramount/Viacom, meaning that new material in novelizations (including GR's own for TMP), never-aired scenes on the cutting room floor, unused scenes in scripts, bloopers, and TAS (produced by Filmation, NBC and Norway - not Paramount), were not counted. Thus TAS was now considered a tie-in, made under license to Filmation. (This memo, by the way, is partly quoted in the lettercol of DC Comics' ST comic, Series II, #1, explaining why Arex and M'Ress had vanished.)

When those live-action clips started being filmed on the actual sets for games and attractions, RA commented in places like GEnie and "ST Communicator" that they were produced by licensees and also didn't count. No ruling was made on restored footage. And then GR decided that he considered parts of ST V to be "apocryphal".

But again, the old 1989 "What is canon?" memo was aimed at the officially licensed tie-ins, not the show's screenwriters.

It's former title was:
(formally entitled Star Trek), the Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek
No, as aired it was simply "Star Trek". Its Writers' Guide was the TOS Writers' Guide with an extra page mentioning Arex and M'Ress, and featuring a small hand-drawn map of Cait's location in the Lynx constellation.

When fanzines and BBSs discussed Filmation's series, it often got abreviated to STA ("Star Trek Animated" - from "Starlog" articles, IIRC), and this morphed into the more popular TAS. The longer title was coined for commercial releases of TAS on VHS.

Some of the stories were sequels to episodes from the original series
Sure, and I'm one of TAS's biggest fans, so you're not telling me something I don't know. I was really angry when TAS got shunted away in 1989, because I was loving Peter David's treatment of Arex and M'Ress in the post-ST IV DC Comics' "Star Trek" Series I, but I fully understand that you can't expect TNG scripts to get rewritten, or proposals quashed, simply because they didn't conform to concepts in TAS. (Not to mention that Larry Niven had no idea that his kzinti would be ever-entwined with red tape just because he lent them to one episode of a Saturday morning cartoon.)

I don't know why fans produce so much angst over "What is canon?" and what isn't. It's not a judgment on quality. It merely specifies what is the parent product and, from 1989-1991, what could be referenced by licensees and what couldn't.

Let's get this straight. Canon is what's onscreen, despite whatever some may claim otherwise. Canon is a matter of authenticity.

Well, the person who was writing the memos was Richard Arnold, supposedly at GR's request. So "canon" in 1989 was whatever GR's then-Star Trek Office declared it to be. And it was really only mentioned at conventions to attempt to stop fans telling GR that certain episodes/movies were ignoring useful tech and characters from the licensed tie-ins. ;)
 
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