Well this is sad, Mom tells police ''DEVIL'' made her do it.

[JuanBolio]

Because you advocate cold-bloodedly shooting Human Beings in the head?

Some people are better off shot in the head, and we are better off with them shot in the head as well.

Your own country's declaration of independence says that every man has a right to life

Noble, but not really true.

Which is to say, that no person should be killed unless they've done something to deserve it.

I think killing someone and eating their flesh qualifies as something to deserve it.

What is more, most people agree that people with serious mental illnesses are not really responsible for their actions, and don't deserve to be punished in the same way as mentally healthy people.

I don't see it as a punishment. I see it as a combination of cure and protection for the rest of us.

So the answer to your question "why waste the resources to keep them alive and locked up" is the same as "why waste the resources to keep you alive and free." If someone committed a crime against you, why should any of us pay for police to investigate this crime, and courts to judge, and prisons to punish? Why shouldn't you have to pay for the whole process yourself?

That's if there's doubt or dispute about the nature of the crime or who committed it. Cases like this where the murderer freely admits their guilt should not have resources wasted on them in the same manner.

Psychiatric therapy doesn't try to make the monster gone, it tries to rewind the monster into a human being who can live a normal life in our society. Big difference, that. And a bullet through the head is never an acceptable answer.

Nonsense - A bullet through the head solves the problem with 100% effectiveness. Psychiatric therapy has a very small chance of producing a decent human being out of a monster, comparatively. And what if they stamp her healthy and send her back out into the world, only to have her do the same thing? How do we excuse that?

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Nonsense - A bullet through the head solves the problem with 100% effectiveness. Psychiatric therapy has a very small chance of producing a decent human being out of a monster, comparatively. And what if they stamp her healthy and send her back out into the world, only to have her do the same thing? How do we excuse that?

Then they shouldn't have put her back in society, for she obviously wasn't ready. And no, of course the problem isn't solved; if you don't remove the cause (not all mental illnesses are purely genetic), there will just be another lunatic to take her place. Shooting her in the head accomplishes exactly nothing, except to make us monsters for killing another human being.

I think those who would carelessly shoot another human being in the head without giving such a person a reasonable chance at bettering himself and living a normal life, might be the only people who actually deserve to be shot. But it surely won't be me who'll do the shooting; I'm not a monster and I don't plan on becoming one.

 

[JuanBolio]

I disagree that killing a human being is, in all cases, monstrous. Shooting her in the head makes damn sure she'll never do it again.

Then they shouldn't have put her back in society, for she obviously wasn't ready.

This will come as exactly zero comfort to those she kills and their loved ones.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I disagree that killing a human being is, in all cases, monstrous. Shooting her in the head makes damn sure she'll never do it again.

Shooting her in the head will make another lunatic take her place, as I've said before.

This will come as exactly zero comfort to those she kills and their loved ones.

She doesn't kill anyone if she's not put back in society before she is ready. Or do you mean those of the crime she committed in the first place? I doubt shooting her would come as any comfort to them. It won't bring any dead people back, after all.

 

[JuanBolio]

Shooting her in the head will make another lunatic take her place, as I've said before.

Nonsense. That lunatic will step up and do his deeds whether or not she's shot.

She doesn't kill anyone if she's not put back in society before she is ready.

Mistakes happen all the time, especially in a field as iffy as psychiatry. You never KNOW if someone is sane. They might seem sane, they might act sane, but a year later the same circumstances that made her hear voices commanding her to kill might pop up again. We don't have a sane-o-meter to tell for sure.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

That lunatic will step up and do his deeds whether or not she's shot.

If she kills someone, there's obviously something wrong with her. Now it could be genetic, but it could just as well have a social trigger or something similar. Not every lunatic is born that way. Finding out what the trigger is (and trying to implement the gained knowledge into society) is paramount in preventing more lunatics from forming.

Mistakes happen all the time, especially in a field as iffy as psychiatry. You never KNOW if someone is sane. They might seem sane, they might act sane, but a year later the same circumstances that made her hear voices commanding her to kill might pop up again. We don't have a sane-o-meter to tell for sure.

No, we don't. But if the shrinks are doing their job right, the amount of people who screw up after being released is much, much less then the amount of people who are able to live normal, productive lives. If it were otherwise, most judges wouldn't even give preventive detention in mental clinics, they would simply issue the death penalty or life imprisonment. And while they still do that in the US, a lot of other countries are wiser then that.

 

[JuanBolio]

I see no wisdom in allowing insane murderers to live. Or any murderers, for that matter, aside from the accidental kind.

Your argument that some should be kept alive for study to determine how to fix their problem does carry some merit, however. Some.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Wow. That's fucking horrible.

Something tells me, she might be executed since she lives in Texas.

Plenty of people in Texas commit gruesome crimes and don't get death.



(Think about that one. )

 

[JuanBolio]

Plenty of people in Texas commit gruesome crimes and don't get death.

George W. Bush?

 

[Jayson]

I disagree that killing a human being is, in all cases, monstrous. Shooting her in the head makes damn sure she'll never do it again.

Then they shouldn't have put her back in society, for she obviously wasn't ready.

This will come as exactly zero comfort to those she kills and their loved ones.

Every human being though is a potential killer. Everyone can loose their temper and go and kill someone or get drunk and kill someone. Killing isn't effective means of preventing crime. Killing should be for revenge,which is the closest thing to true justice as one can have in society. I understand your desire to see revenge, for when something like this happens, but some people are oviously so batshit crazy you can't hold them responsbile for their actions. This isn't a case of a women, going through a bout of depession. This nutjob was talking to satan and eating brains and then tries to kill herself. I actually feel bad for her. To be insane must be horrific, especially when it leads to you doing something horrific like she did.

Jason

 

[JuanBolio]

I disagree that killing a human being is, in all cases, monstrous. Shooting her in the head makes damn sure she'll never do it again.

Then they shouldn't have put her back in society, for she obviously wasn't ready.

This will come as exactly zero comfort to those she kills and their loved ones.

Every human being though is a potential killer. Everyone can loose their temper and go and kill someone or get drunk and kill someone. Killing isn't effective means of preventing crime. Killing should be for revenge,which is the closest thing to true justice as one can have in society. I understand your desire to see revenge, for when something like this happens, but some people are oviously so batshit crazy you can't hold them responsbile for their actions. This isn't a case of a women, going through a bout of depession. This nutjob was talking to satan and eating brains and then tries to kill herself. I actually feel bad for her. To be insane must be horrific, especially when it leads to you doing something horrific like she did.

Jason

You're quite wrong - I do not seek revenge upon this woman or any like her. She has not personally wronged me, therefor I have no reason to be vengeful. Killing them is both an act of mercy and the only 100% effective solution to the problem of a crazed killer in our midst. We don't waste time trying to rehabilitate mad dogs, nor should we with mad people.

You may find this hard to believe, but I, too, feel bad for her.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

George W. Bush?

But seriously, she'll get the booby hatch.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Justice? No. Natural selection? Yes.

It's got nothing to do with natural selection, sorry. Not a single solitary thing; that's a really lame suggestion.

Now, the fact that she's a child-murderer does play into natural selection, since her behavior is not conducive to passing on her genetic heritage - a tendency to kill your own prepubescent children pretty much writes you out of the Book of Life.

The eventual execution of the woman, doubtless years or decades after she's been effectively removed from the breeding population, has a negligable limiting effect on her genetic impact on future generations. She's had her children, killed them, and due to the likely severity of any non-death sentence will almost certainly never have the opportunity to breed again. Even if she does, circumstances dictate that any offspring will be pretty disadvantaged in the competition for resources and mates.

If people get off on the idea of killing "bad people" that's one thing - but they should not throw around terminology like "natural selection" without thinking a little bit about what it means.

Indeed. Plus, how could it be natural selection if it's humans (defined, perhaps improperly, as apart from rather than a part of nature) doing the selecting. Biologically speaking, it's no more natural selection than the breeding of dogs who can't breathe from perfectly good wolf stock.

Viscerally, I want to see people like this woman die--horribly. Thing is, I don't think with my viscera (well, only when I'm hungry) and so I recognize this woman for what she obviously is: deeply psychotic, which means deeply ill. Punishing the psychotic is more "evil" (in terms of cold-blooded disregard for the reality of the situation coupled with malice aforethought) than anything the voices in her drove her to do.

The existential horror of this, though--that someone could do such a thing because of a glitch in the wiring--is too much for me to contemplate. I never thought my second sig quote (see below) could be a comfort. In situations like this, it's all I have.

 

[auntiehill]

But seriously, she'll get the booby hatch.

^That she will. She will most likely be locked up for life. It sounds to me a like a classic case of postpartum psychosis, possibly aggravated by drug use.

Life in the nut house for her. And, if and/or when she ever gets over this psychotic break, she will have to live with knowledge of what she has done.

 

[Jayson]

I disagree that killing a human being is, in all cases, monstrous. Shooting her in the head makes damn sure she'll never do it again.

This will come as exactly zero comfort to those she kills and their loved ones.

Every human being though is a potential killer. Everyone can loose their temper and go and kill someone or get drunk and kill someone. Killing isn't effective means of preventing crime. Killing should be for revenge,which is the closest thing to true justice as one can have in society. I understand your desire to see revenge, for when something like this happens, but some people are oviously so batshit crazy you can't hold them responsbile for their actions. This isn't a case of a women, going through a bout of depession. This nutjob was talking to satan and eating brains and then tries to kill herself. I actually feel bad for her. To be insane must be horrific, especially when it leads to you doing something horrific like she did.

Jason

You're quite wrong - I do not seek revenge upon this woman or any like her. She has not personally wronged me, therefor I have no reason to be vengeful. Killing them is both an act of mercy and the only 100% effective solution to the problem of a crazed killer in our midst. We don't waste time trying to rehabilitate mad dogs, nor should we with mad people.

You may find this hard to believe, but I, too, feel bad for her.

I beleive you that you feel bad for her. It's possible though to feel bad for someone and still want revenge. I mean I have heard of other cases were I felt bad for the criminal, because of the upbringing they had but I still felt they deserved death.

I understand the mercy angle, but it simply doesn't feel right to me to kill people for things they didn't have control over. That's why I think this issue is as much about us as a society as it is about the insane lady. I don't like what it says about us, if we will kill people simply because tt's he most pratical thing to do. For a human to die, they should deserve to die IMO. I would rather, try and help someone like this, even if it's a lost cause than surrender ethics to pratical concerns. Sometimes it's okay to have hope and ignore logic IMO. When it comes to human beings who fit the critera of people I see as off limits, that I've already mentioned(inocent people,chidlren,Jayson,retarded people, mentally insane) I would rather go with hope than logic when dealing with them.

Jason

 

[JuanBolio]

Every human being though is a potential killer. Everyone can loose their temper and go and kill someone or get drunk and kill someone. Killing isn't effective means of preventing crime. Killing should be for revenge,which is the closest thing to true justice as one can have in society. I understand your desire to see revenge, for when something like this happens, but some people are oviously so batshit crazy you can't hold them responsbile for their actions. This isn't a case of a women, going through a bout of depession. This nutjob was talking to satan and eating brains and then tries to kill herself. I actually feel bad for her. To be insane must be horrific, especially when it leads to you doing something horrific like she did.

Jason

You're quite wrong - I do not seek revenge upon this woman or any like her. She has not personally wronged me, therefor I have no reason to be vengeful. Killing them is both an act of mercy and the only 100% effective solution to the problem of a crazed killer in our midst. We don't waste time trying to rehabilitate mad dogs, nor should we with mad people.

You may find this hard to believe, but I, too, feel bad for her.

I beleive you that you feel bad for her. It's possible though to feel bad for someone and still want revenge. I mean I have heard of other cases were I felt bad for the criminal, because of the upbringing they had but I still felt they deserved death.

I understand the mercy angle, but it simply doesn't feel right to me to kill people for things they didn't have control over. That's why I think this issue is as much about us as a society as it is about the insane lady. I don't like what it says about us, if we will kill people simply because tt's he most pratical thing to do. For a human to die, they should deserve to die IMO. I would rather, try and help someone like this, even if it's a lost cause than surrender ethics to pratical concerns. Sometimes it's okay to have hope and ignore logic IMO. When it comes to human beings who fit the critera of people I see as off limits, that I've already mentioned(inocent people,chidlren,Jayson,retarded people, mentally insane) I would rather go with hope than logic when dealing with them.

Jason

As I said, I DO NOT seek revenge in any way, shape, or form. This isn't about revenge, its about practicality. I'm with you on hope and kindnes and treatment as long as the insane are not VIOLENT KILLERS. While it may not be their fault that that's what they are, I simply don't feel its worth the effort and the risk keeping them alive.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

This isn't about revenge, its about practicality. I'm with you on hope and kindnes and treatment as long as the insane are not VIOLENT KILLERS. While it may not be their fault that that's what they are, I simply don't feel its worth the effort and the risk keeping them alive.

No, what you say is not about practicality. Are you sure it's not about not wanting to spend the effort/money to try and rehabilitate a fellow human being? Because that practicality would be, at the most, very short-term. In the long term, simply shooting all killers in the head would likely aggravate the problem. Why are they killers in the first place? What caused them to snap? What caused them to have mental problems in the first place? What is society's role in this?

 

[JuanBolio]

This isn't about revenge, its about practicality. I'm with you on hope and kindnes and treatment as long as the insane are not VIOLENT KILLERS. While it may not be their fault that that's what they are, I simply don't feel its worth the effort and the risk keeping them alive.

No, what you say is not about practicality. Are you sure it's not about not wanting to spend the effort/money to try and rehabilitate a fellow human being? Because that practicality would be, at the most, very short-term.

Partly. Its also partly about total insurance that that particular individual never gets to repeat their crimes. Both of which are a part of practicality.

...and I'm perfectly willing to spend time and resources trying to rehabilitate a fellow human being... AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT MURDERERS.

Your guesses about my motives aren't really as good as my complete knowledge of them. Why offer them up?

 

[Jayson]

You're quite wrong - I do not seek revenge upon this woman or any like her. She has not personally wronged me, therefor I have no reason to be vengeful. Killing them is both an act of mercy and the only 100% effective solution to the problem of a crazed killer in our midst. We don't waste time trying to rehabilitate mad dogs, nor should we with mad people.

You may find this hard to believe, but I, too, feel bad for her.

I beleive you that you feel bad for her. It's possible though to feel bad for someone and still want revenge. I mean I have heard of other cases were I felt bad for the criminal, because of the upbringing they had but I still felt they deserved death.

I understand the mercy angle, but it simply doesn't feel right to me to kill people for things they didn't have control over. That's why I think this issue is as much about us as a society as it is about the insane lady. I don't like what it says about us, if we will kill people simply because tt's he most pratical thing to do. For a human to die, they should deserve to die IMO. I would rather, try and help someone like this, even if it's a lost cause than surrender ethics to pratical concerns. Sometimes it's okay to have hope and ignore logic IMO. When it comes to human beings who fit the critera of people I see as off limits, that I've already mentioned(inocent people,chidlren,Jayson,retarded people, mentally insane) I would rather go with hope than logic when dealing with them.

Jason

As I said, I DO NOT seek revenge in any way, shape, or form. This isn't about revenge, its about practicality. I'm with you on hope and kindnes and treatment as long as the insane are not VIOLENT KILLERS. While it may not be their fault that that's what they are, I simply don't feel its worth the effort and the risk keeping them alive.

I'm not sure why we need to drawl a line at violent killers. If the goal is to keep them from hurting others, then that can be done by keeping them locked up. You might be making the argument that violent killers can't be reformed, but the issue for me isn't her actions but what is in her mind and heart. I think there is a huge difference between someone who kills, because there insane and someone who kills because there a pyschopath. I don't think crazy people are pyschopath's. A psyschopath I think has more to do with not having empathy towards people. I'm not sure if that is the case with this women, hence her trying to stab herself. The fact that she tired killing herself is actually a good thing Imo in that she might be receptive to help, if something can be done with all the crazy stuff going on inside her mind.

Jason

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Its also partly about total insurance that that particular individual never gets to repeat their crimes.

All right, I can agree with that. Put them in rehabilitation, and only let them loose if the chance of repeat is ver small. That gets you the same outcome; they'll never repeat their crimes. There is still a very small chance that wouldn't be there if you shot them, but by what you can learn from them, the chance of new lunatics arising will be less. So at the least, it evens out. And at best, it gives you less lunatics to deal with in the future.

and I'm perfectly willing to spend time and resources trying to rehabilitate a fellow human being... AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT MURDERERS.

So you would if they would simply be child abusers? rapists? If they'd done the most horrible crimes in existence, just short of murdering someone? I'm trying to find why a murderer is a special case for you.