The last British WWI survivor passes away...

[Thespeckledkiwi]

This is one of the most important events this year IMO, that the last British WWI survivor has passed away. I only believe a couple survive to this day, one American and one Australian. I don't think any Soviets have survived and who knows of the Eastern European bloc. Germany and France have no survivors.

His name was Harry Patch.

And the link to WWI growers thinner each passing hour

Not many people realize how important and how tragic the war was. Many kids these days aren't taught the significance of World War I and how it still has affects to this day.

Very sad.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_obit_patch

God Bless you Mr. Patch and thank you for your service.

 

[What's his face]

This is one of the most important events this year IMO, that the last British WWI survivor has passed away. I only believe a couple survive to this day, one American and one Australian. I don't think any Soviets have survived and who knows of the Eastern European bloc. Germany and France have no survivors.

His name was Harry Patch.

And the link to WWI growers thinner each passing hour

Not many people realize how important and how tragic the war was. Many kids these days aren't taught the significance of World War I and how it still has affects to this day.

Very sad.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_obit_patch

God Bless you Mr. Patch and thank you for your service.

There's an Australian, an American and a Canadian left.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

This is one of the most important events this year IMO, that the last British WWI survivor has passed away. I only believe a couple survive to this day, one American and one Australian. I don't think any Soviets have survived and who knows of the Eastern European bloc. Germany and France have no survivors.

His name was Harry Patch.

And the link to WWI growers thinner each passing hour

Not many people realize how important and how tragic the war was. Many kids these days aren't taught the significance of World War I and how it still has affects to this day.

Very sad.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090725/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_obit_patch

God Bless you Mr. Patch and thank you for your service.

There's an Australian, an American and a Canadian left.

Not very many left is there?

 

[sidious618]

He sure saw a hell of a lot of history.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

He sure saw a hell of a lot of history.

Yep...which is why these people should be asked for their lives stories to preserve and keep

 

[Goliath]

He sure saw a hell of a lot of history.

Yep...which is why these people should be asked for their lives stories to preserve and keep

I'm sure these last few have been interviewed repeatedly by now.

The only question is, will they accept the state funerals they've been offered.

It's my understanding that the last surviving Canadian, John Babcock, has declined this honour.

 

[An Officer]

It's my understanding that the last surviving Canadian, John Babcock, has declined this honour.

Do you know why?

 

[Zulu Romeo]

And it wasn't that long ago that another WW1 veteran, Henry Allingham (also at the time the world's oldest living male human) died too.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Very sad. It's time's endless march. We reach the future at the cost of the past.

RIP, Mr Patch.

 

[Goliath]

It's my understanding that the last surviving Canadian, John Babcock, has declined this honour.

Do you know why?

A couple of reasons.

On the one hand, he never saw combat, has never really considered himself a 'veteran', and doesn't see himself as special in any way.

On the other hand, he has been living in the United States since the 1920s--though he did accept the Government of Canada's recent offer to make him a Canadian citizen. (At the time Babcock emigrated, there were no 'Canadian citizens'--legally, Canadians were British subjects)

From what I understand, the last US veteran will also not receive a state funeral--though a special exception has been made to allow him to be buried in Arlington cemetery, instead of cremated.

 

[An Officer]

Ah. Thanks for the explanation Camelopard.

 

[Braindeer]

This is such sad news. Every Remembrance Day the number of veterans gets smaller and smaller. I remember seeing Mr Patch and Mr Allingham at last November's Remembrance Day service and I sat and cried through the whole thing. They were both in wheelchairs, and Allingham was so determined to get up and lay his wreath himself, but he was too weak to do so and had to ask someone to lay it for him. You could see how painful that was for him.

It makes me so angry that people just don't care what a huge sacrifice was made for them. I have met so many people who can't even tell you what the dates for either World War were. It's shameful.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It makes me so angry that people just don't care what a huge sacrifice was made for them. I have met so many people who can't even tell you what the dates for either World War were. It's shameful.

Remember many of those people didn't ask- and wouldn't ask- that sacrifice to be made. I personally find the idea of people suffering trauma, injury and death on that scale FOR ME to be sickening. Please don't imply these men's suffering is on my conscience- I would NEVER have asked them to do it. They did not do it for me. They did it because they were conditioned to do so by their societies.

They made the sacrifice because they grew up in a society that conditioned its young men into believing they had no higher purpose than to suffer and die on behalf of everyone else. They are victims. Selfless? yes. Brave? yes. But victims. I would suggest THAT is the big lesson the wars should have taught us, one that has sadly been forgotten.

If I were alive then I would have been treated exactly the same way. They did not do anything for me, and it would be the height of dishonour on my part to suggest they did, or should have.

 

[Braindeer]

It makes me so angry that people just don't care what a huge sacrifice was made for them. I have met so many people who can't even tell you what the dates for either World War were. It's shameful.

Remember many of those people didn't ask- and wouldn't ask- that sacrifice to be made. I personally find the idea of people suffering trauma, injury and death on that scale FOR ME to be sickening. Please don't imply these men's suffering is on my conscience- I would NEVER have asked them to do it. They did not do it for me. They did it because they were conditioned to do so by their societies.

They made the sacrifice because they grew up in a society that conditioned its young men into believing they had no higher purpose than to suffer and die on behalf of everyone else. They are victims. Selfless? yes. Brave? yes. But victims. I would suggest THAT is the big lesson the wars should have taught us, one that has sadly been forgotten.

If I were alive then I would have been treated exactly the same way. They did not do anything for me, and it would be the height of dishonour on my part to suggest they did, or should have.

It doesn't matter that you didn't ask them to do it. Do you think that people should only do things for others when asked? And I think you should feel sickened and you should feel their suffering on your conscience. We all should. We would not be here today or have the life we do if they had not followed society's "conditioning" and given their lives to protect their countries.

I agree, they were victims. But sadly they had no choice. And frankly I think it's the "height of dishonour" to deny that your comfortable life was directly facilitated by their loss of life.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It makes me so angry that people just don't care what a huge sacrifice was made for them. I have met so many people who can't even tell you what the dates for either World War were. It's shameful.

Remember many of those people didn't ask- and wouldn't ask- that sacrifice to be made. I personally find the idea of people suffering trauma, injury and death on that scale FOR ME to be sickening. Please don't imply these men's suffering is on my conscience- I would NEVER have asked them to do it. They did not do it for me. They did it because they were conditioned to do so by their societies.

They made the sacrifice because they grew up in a society that conditioned its young men into believing they had no higher purpose than to suffer and die on behalf of everyone else. They are victims. Selfless? yes. Brave? yes. But victims. I would suggest THAT is the big lesson the wars should have taught us, one that has sadly been forgotten.

If I were alive then I would have been treated exactly the same way. They did not do anything for me, and it would be the height of dishonour on my part to suggest they did, or should have.

It doesn't matter that you didn't ask them to do it. Do you think that people should only do things for others when asked? And I think you should feel sickened and you should feel their suffering on your conscience. We all should. We would not be here today or have the life we do if they had not followed society's "conditioning" and given their lives to protect their countries.

I agree, they were victims. But sadly they had no choice. And frankly I think it's the "height of dishonour" to deny that your comfortable life was directly facilitated by their loss of life.

And every enemy soldier they shot? I suppose they all died "for me"? I suppose every 12-year-old boy shot through the skull during the assault on Berlin died "for me"? How dare you suggest I have such blood on my hands?

The lesson of the wars is as follows: TREAT YOUR SONS WITH RESPECT. You disregard that lesson with your suggestions that we should glorify in conditioning our sons to suffer and die on our behalf, and above all to think they are being respected for doing so.

 

[Braindeer]

Remember many of those people didn't ask- and wouldn't ask- that sacrifice to be made. I personally find the idea of people suffering trauma, injury and death on that scale FOR ME to be sickening. Please don't imply these men's suffering is on my conscience- I would NEVER have asked them to do it. They did not do it for me. They did it because they were conditioned to do so by their societies.

They made the sacrifice because they grew up in a society that conditioned its young men into believing they had no higher purpose than to suffer and die on behalf of everyone else. They are victims. Selfless? yes. Brave? yes. But victims. I would suggest THAT is the big lesson the wars should have taught us, one that has sadly been forgotten.

If I were alive then I would have been treated exactly the same way. They did not do anything for me, and it would be the height of dishonour on my part to suggest they did, or should have.

It doesn't matter that you didn't ask them to do it. Do you think that people should only do things for others when asked? And I think you should feel sickened and you should feel their suffering on your conscience. We all should. We would not be here today or have the life we do if they had not followed society's "conditioning" and given their lives to protect their countries.

I agree, they were victims. But sadly they had no choice. And frankly I think it's the "height of dishonour" to deny that your comfortable life was directly facilitated by their loss of life.

And every enemy soldier they shot? I suppose they all died "for me"? I suppose every 12-year-old boy shot through the skull during the assault on Berlin died "for me"? How dare you suggest I have such blood on my hands?

Unless you are going to go live in a forest as a hermit and forgo all modern society's conveniences (including human rights), then like it or not, that blood IS on your hands. We are all enjoying the freedom gained by the death of millions of soldiers of ALL nationalities. THAT is a tragedy, but a truth nonetheless.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Unless you are going to go live in a forest as a hermit and forgo all modern society's conveniences (including human rights), then like it or not, that blood IS on your hands. We are all enjoying the freedom gained by the death of millions of soldiers of ALL nationalities. THAT is a tragedy, but a truth nonetheless.

But to continue to exploit soldiers like poor Mr. Patch even in death is something I can not accept. They were conditioned into believing it was their highest duty to suffer and die on behalf of others. Then, following their appalling treatment, their nations continue to exploit them by saying "oh well done, good sir, for submitting to our belief system and thinking you were fulfilling your highest purpose by suffering for us, how good of you...oh, how we respect you". I trust you understand why a bitter eyeroll is my only response here. If his people respected him, they wouldn't have treated him the way they did. I find it quite upsetting that EVEN NOW- in his death- his people STILL won't acknowledge their crimes against him.

 

[Braindeer]

Unless you are going to go live in a forest as a hermit and forgo all modern society's conveniences (including human rights), then like it or not, that blood IS on your hands. We are all enjoying the freedom gained by the death of millions of soldiers of ALL nationalities. THAT is a tragedy, but a truth nonetheless.

But to continue to exploit soldiers like poor Mr. Patch even in death is something I can not accept. They were conditioned into believing it was their highest duty to suffer and die on behalf of others. Then, following their appalling treatment, their nations continue to exploit them by saying "oh well done, good sir, for submitting to our belief system and thinking you were fulfilling your highest purpose by suffering for us, how good of you...oh, how we respect you". I trust you understand why a bitter eyeroll is my only response here. If his people respected him, they wouldn't have treated him the way they did. I find it quite upsetting that EVEN NOW- in his death- his people STILL won't acknowledge their crimes against him.

You know, that is actually a pretty patronising thing to say about Harry Patch. How do you know how he felt about his "highest duty"? He was a human being with the right to his own views. I don't know how he felt about the war either, but to imply that he is just some poor schmuck who was used by society and palmed off with congratulations because he was too silly to realise he was being exploted is incredibly patronising.

I find it hard to believe that, faced with a WW1 or 2 veteran, you would say to them, "well, I didn't ask you to go." It sounds petty and childish.

I understand that you disagree with the idea of sending men off to war to die. I hate that too, it's appalling. I am completely anti-war in every way. But to refuse to acknowledge that sacrifices made in past conflicts were made for you is to completely strip those who gave their lives of their entire purpose in going to war. They were fighting to preserve the future for their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. Us. If you refuse to accept that, then they died for nothing.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Unless you are going to go live in a forest as a hermit and forgo all modern society's conveniences (including human rights), then like it or not, that blood IS on your hands. We are all enjoying the freedom gained by the death of millions of soldiers of ALL nationalities. THAT is a tragedy, but a truth nonetheless.

But to continue to exploit soldiers like poor Mr. Patch even in death is something I can not accept. They were conditioned into believing it was their highest duty to suffer and die on behalf of others. Then, following their appalling treatment, their nations continue to exploit them by saying "oh well done, good sir, for submitting to our belief system and thinking you were fulfilling your highest purpose by suffering for us, how good of you...oh, how we respect you". I trust you understand why a bitter eyeroll is my only response here. If his people respected him, they wouldn't have treated him the way they did. I find it quite upsetting that EVEN NOW- in his death- his people STILL won't acknowledge their crimes against him.

You know, that is actually a pretty patronising thing to say about Harry Patch. How do you know how he felt about his "highest duty"? He was a human being with the right to his own views. I don't know how he felt about the war either, but to imply that he is just some poor schmuck who was used by society and palmed off with congratulations because he was too silly to realise he was being exploted is incredibly patronising.

I find it hard to believe that, faced with a WW1 or 2 veteran, you would say to them, "well, I didn't ask you to go." It sounds petty and childish.

I understand that you disagree with the idea of sending men off to war to die. I hate that too, it's appalling. I am completely anti-war in every way. But to refuse to acknowledge that sacrifices made in past conflicts were made for you is to completely strip those who gave their lives of their entire purpose in going to war. They were fighting to preserve the future for their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. US. If you refuse to accept that, then they died for nothing.

No, I would never say what I said above to an actual veteran, face-to-face, because to do so would be to step on and dishonour their own experience of things. They see it in a certain way. With the hindsight of history and my own liberated status, I see it another way. Their view and mine are equally true, and I certainly would not disrespect someone who suffered so appallingly by attempting to speak for them. I speak as myself, not on their behalf.

Saying "they were fighting for the future, for their families" is a mask to hide the simple truth that they were fighting because their society conditioned them to and saw its young males as cannon fodder. British society has progressed far in the last century. It has acknowledged that the manner in which it treated non-whites, non-Europeans, women, homosexuals, etc. was wrong. It has not, however, yet managed to do the same for young males. It still will not accept responsibility for the appalling way it viewed and treated its sons. These ceremonies of respect are a sham, a way to avoid taking societal responsibility. I really fear what will happen when all the veterans are gone. We'll have missed our chance to progress to a new level of understanding, and no doubt future generations of boys will suffer as Patch's generation did.

 

[Braindeer]

No, I would never say what I said above to an actual veteran, face-to-face, because to do so would be to step on and dishonour their own experience of things. They see it in a certain way. With the hindsight of history and my own liberated status, I see it another way. Their view and mine are equally true, and I certainly would not disrespect someone who suffered so appallingly by attempting to speak for them. I speak as myself, not on their behalf.

Saying "they were fighting for the future, for their families" is a mask to hide the simple truth that they were fighting because their society conditioned them to and saw its young males as cannon fodder. British society has progressed far in the last century. It has acknowledged that the manner in which it treated non-whites, non-Europeans, women, homosexuals, etc. was wrong. It has not, however, yet managed to do the same for young males. It still will not accept responsibility for the appalling way it viewed and treated its sons. These ceremonies of respect are a sham, a way to avoid taking societal responsibility. I really fear what will happen when all the veterens are gone. We'll have missed our chance to progress to a new level of understanding, and no doubt future generations of boys will suffer as Patch's generation did.

The only reason you HAVE "the hindsight of history and my own liberated status" is because they went to war! Plus, that is an incredible arrogant thing to say - to imagine that you are so much more intelligent than they were! They knew what they were fighting for. you seem to think that they were living in some sort of dark age where no one had any education and followed orders like blind sheep! We are no more intelligent that any one of those soldiers.

What would you suggest, if the same situation were to arise today? Imagine that Hitler is currently murdering Jewish people left right and centre, and is heading to your home town next. Naturally you do not wish to fight! That would be exploitation! How do you proceed?

Progressing to a "new level of understanding" kind of relies on there not being psychotic bastards trying to wipe out entire nations.