Without the Emotion Chip, Does Data Have Emotions?

[Zameaze]

No. If so, what's the point for the chip?

Ah, the emotion chip--that was a mistake by the certain writers who disregarded what had been done with Data up to that point, in my opinion.

But, disregarding the chip, I think the point of Data's emotions, and indeed his sentience, can be argued intelligently from either side. That's what makes this thread so interesting--the arguments on both sides.

 

[Unicron]

That does sound good! Would've made a great episode!

I got the other half today and read it. I think it would have made a good ep. Q wanted to prove that androids are "inferior" for their weaknesses compared to organics, but as Picard pointed out, Data was able to help keep the ship on track because of his experiences and development. Without him, the mission would have failed. I think this might have been the last two issues of the TNG comic, as the stellar cartography set from Generations is used and the writers seemed aware that the series was ending (or may have recently ended) at the time of publication.

 

[Peliqua]

Data has subliminal, unconcious emotion.

Read: Ishara Yar kiss 'reaction' [in fact that whole episode is Data 'personifying' Ishara as Tasha, Eh? Eh?] , Tasha yar 'smile', his wonderment at his visions of his father..

The fact that Data wants Emotion in the first place and chooses to install the chip-- It's indicative of courage, or at least curiousity, both of which are not typical 'android' characteristics, No?

Wether or not Data felt it in his chest and heart like we do, he certainly did have something special

 

[Isaren]

it's kinda like how Data is constantly claiming that he cannot use contractions, but then in "The Most Toys", he says "can't" and surprises us all. well, he surprises me, anyway. I think Data is a liar.

 

[Unicron]

His future self also used them routinely in "All Good Things," so I tend to go by his statement in "The Offspring" that he hadn't mastered them, but had the capacity to do so eventually.

 

[flightmech73]

Data is like KITT from Knight Rider. No emotions but a hell of allot of personalty.

 

[Destructor]

Data has subliminal, unconcious emotion.

You THINK he does, because he is good at mimicing them. But he doesn't.

 

[plynch]

Data has subliminal, unconcious emotion.

You THINK he does, because he is good at mimicing them. But he doesn't.

Well, the reactions of our bodies and our facial expressions ARE all part of emotion. Emotion is bigger than just the internal feeling (which has been measured occurring slightly behind the body's reaction). Regardless of whether he is mimicking those aspects of emotion, he is in fact doing them, thus he is "doing" emotion to a large extent.

Now whether he FEELS anything is another matter. I'd say no, based on the "emotion chip" segments I've seen. But there is neuroscience evidence that dogs don't feel anything when they are doing emotions. They are certainly reacting in body and face, certainly emoting, but (perhaps) not experiencing the internal sensations that seem to exist as feedback to us to tell us what the body is doing.

I'd have to say yes, prior to the chip, Data is emoting, but probably not as fully as we do.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The real answer is that the answer changed in the third year of the series. Michael Piller established as a rule, for whatever reason, that Data did not experience emotions. Data had been written as emotional, if reticient, on a number of occasions, and some folks who had been on the writing staff prior to the third year argued that he did feel, citing incident and behavior from episodes in the first two years, but they were told that he did not.

There was a period of time where some of the avid Data fans placed responsibility for the change on Melinda Snodgrass because the first explicit statement of it was in one of her third season scripts, but it was not her idea and IIRC she disagreed with it.

Someone may know the "why" of all of that; I don't.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Data, with the chip, has a full range of emotions.

Data, without the chip, is limited to emotions that stem from the higher thought processes. The chip is the equivalent of what some (probably older) psych texts refer to as the "reptile brain". Data was, ultimately, capable of becoming angry or upset enough to kill in "The Most Toys", but only because it was the rational conclusion to an emotional process carried out on a thinking level. Data was capable of missing Tasha on a thinking level, but never cried over her (unless he did after he put the chip in) like he did with worry for Spot when the -D crashed.

The chip makes sense to me - even why Soong might have concluded that having those functions from the start may have been what caused Lore to be a jerk.

I just think no one was speaking quite accurately when they said Data had no emotions before the chip. It was understandable shorthand, since specifying and explaining that he had higher emotions but no basic feelings would have been tiresome and also detracted from the whole "becoming more human" goal that Data had.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, that sounds sensible but it is not, in fact, what writers were told. In fact, the phrase from "Measure Of A Man" was used at least once, flippantly, to shut down someone on staff who insisted that Data had felt something for Tasha Yar - ie "Data is a toaster."

 

[Da'an]

I think the very property of Data being sentient/sapient means he would have at least some emotions, even if they are often subtle.

It's probably one of those "emergent" properties that comes with consciousness.

I think the emotion chip just gives him artificially induced "react-response" emotions which are a lot more obvious.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Well, that sounds sensible but it is not, in fact, what writers were told.

Hey, I don't know canon, I just know what I like.

 

[plynch]

Well, that sounds sensible but it is not, in fact, what writers were told. In fact, the phrase from "Measure Of A Man" was used at least once, flippantly, to shut down someone on staff who insisted that Data had felt something for Tasha Yar - ie "Data is a toaster."

Toaster is not as interesting as a synthetic being with at least proto-emotions as he seemed to have. Even after the toaster decree he does facial and vocal expressions.

I wonder if "they" were trying to make him more remiscent of Spock? Obviously he was the token "outsider" commenting on humanity like Spock. I would still say, regardless of the toaster decree, he seems to have at least quasi-emotions before the chip. It was just that he didn't fully "get" humanity, esp. humor.

 

[Shazam!]

I think the emotions are there and the chip unlocks them.

 

[DivineSugar]

Yes, he definitely does have emotions. They are his own emotions, not from a chip. He considers a lot of people (like Geordi, Tasha, Picard) to be close to him, and he cares about them. Geordi is his best friend. If he didn't have emotions (or a soul) would he even think of anyone as his friend?

 

[Anticitizen]

Well, it's not that simple. He takes great pains to imitate human behavior, and during his attempt at dating he described whole subroutines dedicated to the prospect. It's possible that his descriptions of friendship, etc are just elaborate mimicry.

 

[Anika Hanson]

Yes. I mean the attachment he has to Tasha Yar would seem to suggest that he does function on some basic emotional level. Likewise his attitude during measure of a man would also suggest he does possess some form of emotions.

 

[Destructor]

Yes, he definitely does have emotions. They are his own emotions, not from a chip. He considers a lot of people (like Geordi, Tasha, Picard) to be close to him, and he cares about them. Geordi is his best friend. If he didn't have emotions (or a soul) would he even think of anyone as his friend?

But even Data qualifies his statement to Geordi about being his best friend that he WOULD be Data's best friend, IF he had emotions. But as he says nearly every second episode, HE DOES NOT.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Data, with the chip, has a full range of emotions.

Data, without the chip, is limited to emotions that stem from the higher thought processes. The chip is the equivalent of what some (probably older) psych texts refer to as the "reptile brain". Data was, ultimately, capable of becoming angry or upset enough to kill in "The Most Toys", but only because it was the rational conclusion to an emotional process carried out on a thinking level. Data was capable of missing Tasha on a thinking level, but never cried over her (unless he did after he put the chip in) like he did with worry for Spot when the -D crashed.

The chip makes sense to me - even why Soong might have concluded that having those functions from the start may have been what caused Lore to be a jerk.

I just think no one was speaking quite accurately when they said Data had no emotions before the chip. It was understandable shorthand, since specifying and explaining that he had higher emotions but no basic feelings would have been tiresome and also detracted from the whole "becoming more human" goal that Data had.

Well, that sounds sensible but it is not, in fact, what writers were told. In fact, the phrase from "Measure Of A Man" was used at least once, flippantly, to shut down someone on staff who insisted that Data had felt something for Tasha Yar - ie "Data is a toaster."

Well we could chalk that line up to robo-racism.

I do remember reading that this was in the writer's bible somewhere, that Data had no emotion. But based on the on-screen evidence (i.e., Spiner's performance) and a modern understanding of cognitive science (human style intelligence may be impossible without some sort of higher emotions) - I think Triumphant's explanation makes more sense.