Star Wars gets it...Star Trek doesn't

[The Castellan]

I was never big on Star Wars, even as a kid.
To this day, the only one I can see in one sitting is the original, all the other 5 films I have to watch in pieces since I get bored fast from it.

Pointless battles, explosions and so on are not what gets my attention.


Plus the Jedis were all a bunch of pompus asses, anyhow. Qui-Gon was the only one that, to me, was likeable. And Vader's just a whiney brat in a suit of armor, I just laughed when he got broiled.

 

[-Brett-]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

Because without children/young adults---the fanbase won't grow in the long term...

This doesn't make sense. Do adults not watch TV or go to movies? Or do they only like things they liked as a kid?

Star Wars used to be for everyone. Then they decided to make it even more kid friendly. Now it's gotten to the point where no one over the age of twelve likes it anymore. Star Wars has become Hannah Montana in space. If anything, it's become an example of what not to do.

 

[schatenjager]

This conversation is also comparing apples to oranges. The essential similarity between Trek and Wars is that they're both set in space. Star Wars is based on serial adventure comic books and television shows and, if you believe Lucas, on mythology that goes back for thousands of years. It is set in a universe having very little to do with our own, from the outset, so the technobabble that tends to pervade Star Trek doesn't apply. Who knows, and who cares, how lightspeed travel works in Star Wars? In Star Trek there have been books published that "explain" it. Star Trek takes place here, on earth, in our galaxy. These aren't aliens and strange creatures (sorry Spock) having these adventures, they're us. Chewbacca, the droids, Darth Vader, these were pretty cool to a kid, regardless of the story. Star Trek didn't have lovable aliens. They had aliens of the week. Star Wars had The Force... What kid hasn't held their hand up at something and willed it to move? What similar mystical thing did Star Trek have? Mind Melds? Star Wars, whether or not it's geared towards kids, is more accessible to kids while Star Trek just didn't translate as well. You don't need a minimum IQ to love it (TMP was the first movie I ever saw).

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I agree that getting kids interested is a good way to "grow" a fanbase. But I think it's a flawed premise to assume that interest in toys means an interest in a franchise or story. Growing up, I always had more more Star Wars toys than Trek toys. And yet, I am still a fan of both franchises -- through all of their various incarnations since the 80s. The fact that I didn't have Trek toys didn't stop me from enjoying the stories and wanting to see more.

There's no need for "toy envy"?

 

[kes7]

It's ironic you should say that because in the quote I remember from Lucas he was referring to the new trilogy. I also think the new trilogy is much more geared towards kids. Hell the star of number one was a kid. But the presence of Jar Jar Binks and the overly silly droids were strictly a nod to the kids. True three did get very dark, but that was somewhat inevitable given the story.

I think Lucas has lost sight of what good entertainment is. Episodes 4-6 told a good, timeless story. Kind of like a cinematic equivalent of the LOTR or Narnia books -- written so that a child can understand and enjoy the story for what it is, but much more meaningful on a re-read/re-watch as an adult.

I think 1-3 got lost in adult concepts like forbidden love, midichlorians (sp?), political machinations, and all that. Sure, there were Jar Jar Binks and a bunch of funny looking droids, but the actual storyline was impossible for a child to follow -- all that was left was to giggle at the silly stuff and enjoy the explosions. I think the storyline of 4-6 (good guys, bad guys, two sides of the force, good guys win and Han gets the girl) was coherent and accessible. 1-3 (what is good? what is bad? what makes a good guy go bad, and what if getting the girl is what sends him over the edge?) was much more mature, despite the eye candy for the kids.

 

[kes7]

I'm curious, how many of you posters was a Star Trek fan as a kid (for argument's sake let's say 16 and under)? I certainly was and I'm sure many of you were as well. Sure, the show had lots of themes considered "adult", but there were also quite a few episodes and concepts that were geared towards children as well (Wesley Crusher?).

I was. I was 6 when TNG started and 13 when it ended and I watched it the whole time. I remember having a huge crush on Wesley around age ten. I remember that episode "Pen Pals" when Nikki Cox played a little alien girl who was communicating with Data. I wanted to be her! I thought Data was the coolest thing, and I found his bewilderment at adult emotions pretty accessible as a young kid myself. I can even remember putting a headband on my face when I'd play "Star Trek" with my sister to simulate Geordi's VISOR. I loved that everyone was smart and nice and no one picked on them for being that way. I loved the pretty simulations of space. I totally wanted my own holodeck and my own replicator (still do, actually). We were so into it that my dad signed us up for the official fan club and I carried my membership card around with me. I had a model Enterprise (TOS version) and I think I even had a phaser. If someone had given me the opportunity to go to a convention and wear a real Starfleet uniform back then I probably would have died of happiness. (As it is, I've never been to a convention and don't own a uniform.)

So yeah, kids can be fans.

(And ETA -- "Trouble With Tribbles" was the ultimate TOS kid episode, I loved that! Voyager had "Collective" and the stupid Flotter stuff and "The Haunting of Deck Twelve." I think Trek is very kid friendly.)

 

[Too Much Fun]

I was thinking the same thing today. I went to ToysRus in Korea expecting to see some Star Trek merch with there being a new movie out, and instead didn't see a single Star Trek item in the whole store. It was mostly Transformers stuff (which is understandable since the movie is still relatively new and Transformers are obviously more marketable being a franchise started from toys), but I cannot believe how much Star Wars merch there was when there wasn't a single Star Trek item.

Star Wars, which hasn't had a movie with any impact on pop culture since 2006 (I don't count the "The Clone Wars" flick that nobody seemed to care about) has piles and piles of lego sets but there's no Star Trek stuff? It shouldn't be so hard to at least have some fun lego playsets of starships and planets, etc.

 

[kes7]

I was thinking the same thing today. I went to ToysRus in Korea expecting to see some Star Trek merch with there being a new movie out, and instead didn't see a single Star Trek item in the whole store. It was mostly Transformers stuff (which is understandable since the movie is still relatively new and Transformers are obviously more marketable being a franchise started from toys), but I cannot believe how much Star Wars merch there was when there wasn't a single Star Trek item.

Star Wars, which hasn't had a movie with any impact on pop culture since 2006 (I don't count the "The Clone Wars" flick that nobody seemed to care about) has piles and piles of lego sets but there's no Star Trek stuff? It shouldn't be so hard to at least have some fun lego playsets of starships and planets, etc.

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

 

[barnaclelapse]

Because Star Wars actually is geared to kids. Lucas has said as much. It's themes and story is very basic. Entertaining and gripping, but basic.

Star Trek is geared toward adults. Always has been from the original pilot.

Exactly.

I've never worried about it much. Though I love Star Wars, I've always considered it to be kind of overrated and not nearly as compelling as the best stuff in Star Trek can be.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Quite simply, Star Wars is "cool". It has light-sabres and Jedi knights doing silly backflips and a simple good/evil division. Darth Vader is also the textbook definition of "iconic villain". Star Trek is not so "cool". It tends to be thoughtful, more restrained, more complex. I've never been a fan of Star Wars. Oh, I enjoy it (the original trilogy are great films) but it's simply entertainment. Star Trek requires commitment, I believe, that children usually don't have. Given a choice between exploring new worlds/interacting with new civilizations and flinging force-lightning at one another or fighting with light-sabres, most children would go with the latter. It's much more fun. My sister and I, as 11 year olds,became hooked on TNG, DS9 and VOY, but we were always quieter, more reflective children. Your average run-around-excitedly child will prefer Star Wars.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

It's a matter of being easy for stupids to digest, and kids are essentially the same thing as stupids where marketing is concerned. Star Wars succeeded in this market (which happens to comprise a very large proportion of the moviegoing public) because it was a (series of) big summer movie(s) full of lasers, explosions and big special effects as well as a plot that didn't require a three-digit IQ to understand.

I'm a big Star Trek fan--but it's pretty arrogant to say that people who like Star Wars are stupids/idiots/childish; whereas the 'intellectuals' like Star Trek....

So basically, you have to be a minimum age and IQ minimum to like Star Trek ?

That's a way to kill a franchise...

Though Star Trek was a cartoon in the 70s, it's time for a 2nd/different cartoon series and/or products/markets to expand the fan base

Now you know why Abrams isn't listening to the section of the fanbase.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Remember that's why Star Trek may not have existed in the first place. Roddenberry told them they were getting a space western and the network complained that what they got was too cerebral(kind of spot on since it had the Talosians in it)

 

[Lindley]

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

There are certain gravitational difficulties in building a starship out of Lego.....

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I was thinking the same thing today. I went to ToysRus in Korea expecting to see some Star Trek merch with there being a new movie out, and instead didn't see a single Star Trek item in the whole store. It was mostly Transformers stuff (which is understandable since the movie is still relatively new and Transformers are obviously more marketable being a franchise started from toys), but I cannot believe how much Star Wars merch there was when there wasn't a single Star Trek item.

Star Wars, which hasn't had a movie with any impact on pop culture since 2006 (I don't count the "The Clone Wars" flick that nobody seemed to care about) has piles and piles of lego sets but there's no Star Trek stuff? It shouldn't be so hard to at least have some fun lego playsets of starships and planets, etc.

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

I want little lego Cardassians with such accessories as Kanar glasses, disruptor pistols, little Galor Banners, etc. and I want a Cardassian lego court room set to put them in, and a lego Galor-class cruiser. Plus something similar for every other major race. Seriously, I wonder why there haven't been any. I'd buy em all.

 

[Skywalker]

Post-TOS Trek is stuffy and full of itself. It overestimates its own importance.

Star Wars is pure fun.

 

[Smiley]

They are different animals in terms of gaining an audience. For Star Wars, people can watch 1-6 movies and have all of the core universe material. There's no such introduction for Star Trek, especially with its five onscreen crews, 700-hour canon, and alternate timelines.

Star Wars also has the original trilogy as a common ground for much of its fanbase. Even if some don't like the EU or the prequels, most can agree that the original three movies are pretty cool. Star Trek's fanbase is much more fractured than that.

 

[kes7]

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

There are certain gravitational difficulties in building a starship out of Lego.....

Fine. Then give us a Borg Cube and a tricorder. I don't care, I just want some Trek toys that my kid can actually play with.

 

[USS Kongo]

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

There are certain gravitational difficulties in building a starship out of Lego.....

You tried to build one, too, huh? The engines kept falling off my Lego starship.

This was why I was happy to see Abrams take over the Trek franchise. His film has created new fans, and hopefully he can now help steer the overall franchise far better than the previous "captains" tried to.

The fact that CBS/Paramount almost let the whole franchise slide down the toilet like they did was shameful.

Sean

 

[SeerSGB]

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

There are certain gravitational difficulties in building a starship out of Lego.....

Fine. Then give us a Borg Cube and a tricorder. I don't care, I just want some Trek toys that my kid can actually play with.

Got any of the old playmates toys? Crack those suckers open.

What I did with half my Star Wars collection, my son was getting into Star Wars and I got to thinking: What's worth more? Holding on to it, and it might gain some money, or give it to him and let him get some enjoyment out of them.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Post-TOS Trek is stuffy and full of itself. It overestimates its own importance.

Star Wars is pure fun.

true that.

I agree, the Lego thing makes me mad. I want to help my son build the Enterprise, dammit! Not the Millennium Falcon or whatever ...

There are certain gravitational difficulties in building a starship out of Lego.....

You tried to build one, too, huh? The engines kept falling off my Lego starship.

This is why I perfer building Ambassador, Galaxy, and Excelsior classes the engines don't fall off and the weight problems can be solved by placing it on one of those flat recdtangle or sqaure pieces.