What Are The Real Plot Holes In The Movie?

[FlapJoy]

I never called you 'the enemy of free will'.

It was implied, no doubt.
Regardless, The way Spock Prime meets NuKirk, and Scotty, and unites them with the Enterprise is not a plot hole. Sci-Fi is full of impossibilities; it allows a certain freedom to tell fantastic stories. That’s why I often rally against the nitpickers in our community, I see it in a different way… but this thread is called ‘What are the REAL plot holes in the movie’ so I’ll help search, but I’ll also defend scenes that I feel are just trying to tell part of an exciting adventure story ‘bout space.

 

[Anticitizen]

It was not implied. I simply stated that I don't subscribe to the idea of destiny because *I* feel it has implications for free will.

As to what is a plot hole and what wasn't -

Sci-Fi is full of impossibilities; it allows a certain freedom to tell fantastic stories.

Okay, under what circumstances is an impossibility/improbability a plot hole or not?

Let's be clear first, I stated early on in the thread that many of the movie's flaws weren't necessarily plot holes in themselves - I said that I consider the contrivances 'shallow' plot holes - because they could've been avoided completely with just a tad of on-screen explanation. Like Vulcan's distress call - how were they able to send a distress call if the drill was jamming, and if it wasn't, then why didn't they warn about Nero's ship? See, this isn't necessarily a plot hole per se, because an explanation COULD be offered, but as it is, it seems to contradict what we know about the drill and how it works. Same with the seeming lack of defenses on Earth or Vulcan. In TMP, at least we got a nifty graphic showing V'Ger's green blobs surrounding Earth, and a line of dialogue from Chekov ('All planetary defense systems have just gone inoperative!'), which gave a reason as to why Earth couldn't defend itself.

If the Narada was hanging out in Earth orbit with its shields down, why didn't anybody with a transporter pad on Earth beam explosives aboard it? Well, we're told that the drill, in addition to jamming communications, jams beaming too - so how did Kirk and Spock manage to beam to the Narada?

I feel that if you don't bother explaining or at least justifying the events in your film, especially if they contradict other events in the film, then they fall under the 'plot hole' category.

You can tell an exciting adventure story about space without them.

 

[FlapJoy]

If the Narada was hanging out in Earth orbit with its shields down, why didn't anybody with a transporter pad on Earth beam explosives aboard it? Well, we're told that the drill, in addition to jamming communications, jams beaming too - so how did Kirk and Spock manage to beam to the Narada?

I feel that if you don't bother explaining or at least justifying the events in your film, especially if they contradict other events in the film, then they fall under the 'plot hole' category.

You do make valid points, but consider this:
Spock, Scott and math-whiz Chekov all conspire (as seen on film) to figure out a way to beam aboard the Narada... what it was they did I can't recall, although their actions are explained to some degree, they are portrayed figuring out the problem... is that justification enough? How much needs to be shown on screen? How much can be just implied?

 

[davejames]

The information about the lightning storm was, until Kirk connected the two, a separate issue from the severe seismic disturbances reported on Vulcan. It was the latter, received during Kirk's Kobayashi Maru hearing, which prompted the emergency rescue mission and was thus expected to require that many ships. The "lightning storm in space" report was an intelligence intercept not announced until the ship was underway and did not originate with the Vulcans.

Sorry, my mistake. But still, even if it's just helping out with earthquake relief, the response seems a bit over the top. Vulcan is supposed to be a highly advanced technological culture of their own. It's not like they're some helpless third world country that needs all the help they can get.

 

[Anticitizen]

You do make valid points, but consider this:
Spock, Scott and math-whiz Chekov all conspire (as seen on film) to figure out a way to beam aboard the Narada... what it was they did I can't recall although their actions are explained to some degree, they are portrayed figuring out the problem... is that justification enough? How much needs to be shown on screen? How much can be just implied?

Well, what they're shown doing is beaming long-range from Titan to the Narada in order to catch Nero off-guard, but that doesn't explain why the drill still didn't jam their transporter beam, or why the Narada apparently didn't bother to raise its shields during its assault on Earth.

Another question that must be raised is: Why didn't the Enterprise warn Earth that Nero might be coming? We're shown that Nero tortured Pike for 'command codes' or whatever, presumably to disable Earth's defenses, but if Spock had phoned up Starfleet HQ and said, 'hey, Nero's kidnapped our Captain which means he has access to our command codes and might come for Earth', then Earth could've taken away that advantage.

 

[FlapJoy]

You do make valid points, but consider this:
Spock, Scott and math-whiz Chekov all conspire (as seen on film) to figure out a way to beam aboard the Narada... what it was they did I can't recall although their actions are explained to some degree, they are portrayed figuring out the problem... is that justification enough? How much needs to be shown on screen? How much can be just implied?

Well, what they're shown doing is beaming long-range from Titan to the Narada in order to catch Nero off-guard, but that doesn't explain why the drill still didn't jam their transporter beam, or why the Narada apparently didn't bother to raise its shields during its assault on Earth.

Another question that must be raised is: Why didn't the Enterprise warn Earth that Nero might be coming? We're shown that Nero tortured Pike for 'command codes' or whatever, presumably to disable Earth's defenses, but if Spock had phoned up Starfleet HQ and said, 'hey, Nero's kidnapped our Captain which means he has access to our command codes and might come for Earth', then Earth could've taken away that advantage.

Perhaps contacting Earth might be intercepted and give away Enterprises position to Nero making a sneak attack impossible, perhaps the drill only jams communication and transporters when it's in operation, which I'm not sure it was at that time (I seem to remember something about the laser causing interference, not so much jamming). The point is, some things can be implied or even justified as long as the core of the story holds together, as I believe this one was... so far no real BIG plot holes are here... but I might need to see the film again to be sure, and you too, we can go together!!

 

[neozeks]

How about this:
Uhura accidentally hears something potentially huge like a mysterious ship destroying almost 50 Klingon ships (hell, that's worse than Wolf 359), casually mentions it to her roommate, yet Pike, though he is the captain of the flagship knows nothing about it. Starfleet should have been all in Red Allert mode after such news.
And maybe I'm remembering this wrongly but wasn't Pike the man that litterally wrote the book on Kelvin (a dissertation or somesuch), and yet he fails to make the lightning storm connection?

 

[M'Sharak]

The information about the lightning storm was, until Kirk connected the two, a separate issue from the severe seismic disturbances reported on Vulcan. It was the latter, received during Kirk's Kobayashi Maru hearing, which prompted the emergency rescue mission and was thus expected to require that many ships. The "lightning storm in space" report was an intelligence intercept not announced until the ship was underway and did not originate with the Vulcans.

Sorry, my mistake. But still, even if it's just helping out with earthquake relief, the response seems a bit over the top. Vulcan is supposed to be a highly advanced technological culture of their own. It's not like they're some helpless third world country that needs all the help they can get.

No, they're not, but take the sort of disaster which would have a third-world country begging for help and blow it up to planet-wide scale; I'd think that even a very advanced civilization with a well-equipped emergency response system is probably going to be taxed to the limit, or beyond. Scale and urgency may be the answer to that question. The evacuation of 8 billion people would be a pretty monumental undertaking, after all, even given time to prepare (which was a luxury they didn't have.)

 

[dcbpe]

Why did the Enterprise go to the trouble of warping into Titans atmosphere?

To remain undetected to the Narada's sensors. It was stated in the dialog.

 

[dcbpe]

Plot hole:

When the Narada comes through the black hole and attacks the Kelvin, there is dialogue regarding what appears to be a lightning storm in space which the Kelvin goes to investigate...the lightning is the effect of the Narada coming through the black hole from the Primeverse.

Flash forward 25 years and Uhura happens to be in the right place at the right time to hear a transmission about a lighting storm and some big ship taking out 47 Klingon ships. Cadet Kirk, in his brilliance, realizes that the same ship that attacked the Kelvin is now attacking Vulcan based specifically and solely on the lighting storm description. He uses same to brow beat Captain Pike on the bridge of his own ship.

But the Narada didn't exit a black hole to attack the Klingons or Vulcan, so why was there a lightning storm in space for Kirk to connect events with?

The consensus is that the new lightning storm is Spock's ship coming back in time. The mystery, of course, is how Nero knew where to find Spock - it's suggested that he was able to do calculations on where and when Spock would show up, but the problem is that the Narada went through the black hole/wormhole first, and therefore having the data available to do such calculations would be a problem.

It's also a little tricky trying to figure out the exact chain of events and how close together they took place - lightning storm, a Klingon fleet, capturing Spock, and destroying Vulcan seemed to take place rather quickly.

It's easy to make the assumption, while watching, that lightning storm #2 is due to the Narada, because Kirk warns Pike about the lightning storm being exactly that ship, and then they run into that ship two minutes later. Of course, Kirk's warning did little good - Sulu's delay in getting the ship underway had more to do with their survival than the warning did.

Last and not least, on that topic - we all know the Narada is badass and all, but the Enterprise was only delayed 10-20 seconds behind the rest of the fleet. That seems a bit fast for the rest of the fleet to be destroyed before the Enterprise gets there, even for the Narada.

Consensus of ???

Such an explanation is, in itself, another plot hole. What you are saying is that the lighting storm mentioned in the transmission overheard by Uhura is that of Spock Prime's ship entering the Nuverse. Which would mean that Nero captures Spock Prime somewhere near Klingon space, immediately destroys 47 Klingon ships, heads towards Vulcan, drops Spock on Delta Vega, and ultimately attacks/destroys Vulcan in a matter of hours.

#1 Romulus is about as far away from the Romulan/Klingon border as you can get. The Hobus Star is near Romulus, and therefore the blackhole the Narada and Spock Prime travel through would be very far away from Klingon space. There is no reason for Klingon's to be near the spacial location of Spock Prime's entrance to the Nuverse...that would mean they had 47 ships in either Federation or Romulan territory, far away from their own. Such an armada would have attracted someones attention, with or without the Narada crushing them.

#2 From the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus, Nero's shortest vector would take the Narada past Earth through the presumably well defended heart of the Federation to arrive at Vulcan. Why wouldn't he just destroy Earth first? Why didn't anyone notice him passing through? Especially after 47 Klingon ships just got their asses creamed somewhere near Romulus on or near the Federation border.

#3 If Nero was near/in Klingon space when he destroyed the Klingon ships...say after he had broken out of Rura Penthe...then his vector to Vulcan would not have passed near Earth or Romulus, making an attack on Vulcan before Earth logical, but still leaving the question of the lighting storm unanswered. Why would Spock Primes ship appear in Klingon space clear across the galaxy from the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus?

So my original question still remains...how could there have been a lighting storm effect for Kirk to draw a conclusion from if the Narada has already been in the Nuverse for 25 years and Spock Prime's ship couldn't have appeared anywhere near Klingon space?

Cadet Kirk's entire deduction of what is happening at Vulcan falls apart on this one point.

But the movie was still entertaining...

 

[Anticitizen]

Oh, you won't get any disagreement from me. I did suggest there would be timing issues.

 

[FlapJoy]

Oh, you won't get any disagreement from me. I did suggest there would be timing issues.

Speaking of timing issues, c'mon buddy, let's go to the Googleplex and see it again! If we hurry we can make the matinee showing and then hammer out some of these plot issues right after !!

Timing in a action movie is always a bit off, I mean I see what everyone is saying that some things just don't transpire that quickly... and I agree that a minute or two delay in going warp isn't enough time to miss the total destruction the already arrived Federation fleet by the Narada (and scenes of that nature), but were we to be subjected to so much explanation and/or long cues and edits that it bogs down the film's pace? Do we see their entire journey? ...And, the Narada was adept at destruction, Nero took out the USS Kelvin with a fury. The only reason he didn't blast it to bits right away was because he needed to extract information from Kelvins Captain first. During Nero's attack on Vulcan 25 years later he was prepared to face resistance to his actions and may have just unleashed the dogs of war on an unsuspecting, rescue minded, Starfleet. Picking ships off as they all dropped out of warp, perhaps with their shields and pants down... it may not have been a very long battle at all, Enterprise spared by fate.

#1 Romulus is about as far away from the Romulan/Klingon border as you can get. The Hobus Star is near Romulus, and therefore the blackhole the Narada and Spock Prime travel through would be very far away from Klingon space. There is no reason for Klingon's to be near the spacial location of Spock Prime's entrance to the Nuverse...that would mean they had 47 ships in either Federation or Romulan territory, far away from their own. Such an armada would have attracted someones attention, with or without the Narada crushing them.

#2 From the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus, Nero's shortest vector would take the Narada past Earth through the presumably well defended heart of the Federation to arrive at Vulcan. Why wouldn't he just destroy Earth first? Why didn't anyone notice him passing through? Especially after 47 Klingon ships just got their asses creamed somewhere near Romulus on or near the Federation border.

#3 If Nero was near/in Klingon space when he destroyed the Klingon ships...say after he had broken out of Rura Penthe...then his vector to Vulcan would not have passed near Earth or Romulus, making an attack on Vulcan before Earth logical, but still leaving the question of the lighting storm unanswered. Why would Spock Primes ship appear in Klingon space clear across the galaxy from the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus?

So my original question still remains...how could there have been a lighting storm effect for Kirk to draw a conclusion from if the Narada has already been in the Nuverse for 25 years and Spock Prime's ship couldn't have appeared anywhere near Klingon space?

Cuz Kirk is just that good, he was academy fresh, read Pikes disortation, and may have been slightly obsessed with the conflict that killed his dad, but also:

Do we really know how this red matter black hole works? (what the hell IS red matter, and does it matter? ) The hole was created in the future sending people and ships to different points in the past, seems a bit unstable to begin with, who knows where it ends up, not sure of all the logistics in relation to sectors of space or distance from certain planets, couldn't it just be unpredictable? Honestly, does that really ruin a movie for anybody? Luckily, it sounds like it didn't.

Plus, I don't think Nero thought destroying Earth was a primary goal over Vulcan, he wanted to destroy Vulcan for 25 years while waiting for Spock, I'm sure he wanted to get the show on the road... Earth could wait, if Nero was even going to destroy it in the first place, he could of just been pissed that Starfleet was trying to stop him and decided to attack Earth after the fact.

I wonder what the Klingons relationship with Starfleet was at the time, Starfleet knew of the attack on those ships, but the Federation also knows that the Klingons handle their own affairs and may not want Starfleet to interfere. As seen in various episodes and films, Klingons at that time were a secretive lot and distrustful of the Federation. So Starfleet stays out of it, perhaps, hadn't yet realized the Narada threat until the attack on Vulcan.

 

[Captain MAJ]

Such an explanation is, in itself, another plot hole. What you are saying is that the lighting storm mentioned in the transmission overheard by Uhura is that of Spock Prime's ship entering the Nuverse. Which would mean that Nero captures Spock Prime somewhere near Klingon space, immediately destroys 47 Klingon ships, heads towards Vulcan, drops Spock on Delta Vega, and ultimately attacks/destroys Vulcan in a matter of hours.

#1 Romulus is about as far away from the Romulan/Klingon border as you can get. The Hobus Star is near Romulus, and therefore the blackhole the Narada and Spock Prime travel through would be very far away from Klingon space. There is no reason for Klingon's to be near the spacial location of Spock Prime's entrance to the Nuverse...that would mean they had 47 ships in either Federation or Romulan territory, far away from their own. Such an armada would have attracted someones attention, with or without the Narada crushing them.

#2 From the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus, Nero's shortest vector would take the Narada past Earth through the presumably well defended heart of the Federation to arrive at Vulcan. Why wouldn't he just destroy Earth first? Why didn't anyone notice him passing through? Especially after 47 Klingon ships just got their asses creamed somewhere near Romulus on or near the Federation border.

#3 If Nero was near/in Klingon space when he destroyed the Klingon ships...say after he had broken out of Rura Penthe...then his vector to Vulcan would not have passed near Earth or Romulus, making an attack on Vulcan before Earth logical, but still leaving the question of the lighting storm unanswered. Why would Spock Primes ship appear in Klingon space clear across the galaxy from the vicinity of Romulus/Hobus?

So my original question still remains...how could there have been a lighting storm effect for Kirk to draw a conclusion from if the Narada has already been in the Nuverse for 25 years and Spock Prime's ship couldn't have appeared anywhere near Klingon space?

Cadet Kirk's entire deduction of what is happening at Vulcan falls apart on this one point.

But the movie was still entertaining...

The Lightning storm was not mentioned in Uhura's transmission. Her transmission was possibly heard days earlier.

Recall, Kirk tells Bones he's taking the test again, then he goes to "study," at which point Uhura overhears the transmission about the Klingon prison planet and the destroyed armada.

Next we see the Kobyashi Maru test, which took place at least the next day, maybe even later. After that, presumably after a brief investigation, there was a hearing, at which point the Distress call is recieved and the fleet mobilizes.

In the midst of all this, after Uhura overhears her transmission and before the distress call from Vulcan, Spock Prime's black hole appears and Nero captures him.

We are given indications that, even though events happen quickly on screen, there is some time that has elapsed.

Chekov stated in his briefing that the lightning storm effect was in the Neutral Zone, not Klingon space. At this point in history, there was no Organian Peace Treaty, therefore no Klingon Neutral Zone. This was obviously referring to the Romulan Neutral Zone, which had existed since the conclusion of the Romulan War 100 years earlier. The Romulan Neutral Zone was not that far from Romulus, and if the Hobus star was able to destroy Romulus several light years away, it's not out of the question that by the time Spock Prime arrived, the Hobus Super Nova could have extended to the neutral zone, scientific improbabilities aside.

Interestingly, however, when Nero appears, the Kelvin is there so it is obviously not the Neutral Zone. In the subspace chatter we hear from the Kelvin, one officer asks if the phenomenon could be Klingon, so evidently there is some reason to suspect the Klingons. This could mean that they are near Klingon space. Then, according to the cut scenes, Nero and Co. are captured by the Klingons. So it would seem that Nero appeared close to Klingon Space, but Spock Prime appeared in the Romulan Neutral Zone.

In conclusion, we cannot conclude entering the black hole in the future will deposit you at the same point in space in the past. Space is four-dimensional, and it is logical to conclude that travelling through the black hole will send you unpredictably across all four dimensions, not just one. So you could appear anywhere, at anytime.

Sorry for the long reply. But maybe this can help to close some of the holes.

 

[dcbpe]

The Lightning storm was not mentioned in Uhura's transmission. Her transmission was possibly heard days earlier.

Recall, Kirk tells Bones he's taking the test again, then he goes to "study," at which point Uhura overhears the transmission about the Klingon prison planet and the destroyed armada.

Next we see the Kobyashi Maru test, which took place at least the next day, maybe even later. After that, presumably after a brief investigation, there was a hearing, at which point the Distress call is received and the fleet mobilizes.

In the midst of all this, after Uhura overhears her transmission and before the distress call from Vulcan, Spock Prime's black hole appears and Nero captures him.

We are given indications that, even though events happen quickly on screen, there is some time that has elapsed.

Logical. However, this presents another plot hole…if days (or even a week or 2?) pass between the overheard transmission and the attack on Vulcan, then why wasn’t the Captain of the Federation Flagship aware of 47 Klingon ships being destroyed? Such a serious impact to the Klingons would surely come up in a briefing, wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t Anderson Cooper be broadcasting the fear of a possible new Romulan super-weapon that eats Klingon ships throughout the galaxy?

Chekov stated in his briefing that the lightning storm effect was in the Neutral Zone, not Klingon space. At this point in history, there was no Organian Peace Treaty, therefore no Klingon Neutral Zone. This was obviously referring to the Romulan Neutral Zone, which had existed since the conclusion of the Romulan War 100 years earlier. The Romulan Neutral Zone was not that far from Romulus, and if the Hobus star was able to destroy Romulus several light years away, it's not out of the question that by the time Spock Prime arrived, the Hobus Super Nova could have extended to the neutral zone, scientific improbabilities aside.

Interestingly, however, when Nero appears, the Kelvin is there so it is obviously not the Neutral Zone. In the subspace chatter we hear from the Kelvin, one officer asks if the phenomenon could be Klingon, so evidently there is some reason to suspect the Klingons. This could mean that they are near Klingon space. Then, according to the cut scenes, Nero and Co. are captured by the Klingons. So it would seem that Nero appeared close to Klingon Space, but Spock Prime appeared in the Romulan Neutral Zone.

According to the maps I have…man I cannot believe I’m arguing this with the aid of f-ing maps…there is no way for the Hobus Star, the Neutral Zone, and Klingon Space to be near each other. Romulus is nearer to Earth on the far end of the Empire from it’s Klingon border. So the mention of the Klingons is a plot hole, or just a stab in the dark by a desperate officer grasping at straws.

I would like to think that the Klingon scenes were cut because they make absolutely no sense, spatially, in reference to a supernova on the opposite side of the galaxy from the Klingon Empire. But, I’m sure they were just cut to shorten the movie and beef up DVD sales.

In conclusion, we cannot conclude entering the black hole in the future will deposit you at the same point in space in the past. Space is four-dimensional, and it is logical to conclude that travelling through the black hole will send you unpredictably across all four dimensions, not just one. So you could appear anywhere, at anytime.

Well, I guess you’re right here…but I haven’t studied fourth dimensional calculus since 1991 and I doubt a dude who flies a mining ship would have ever studied it. The four-variable astrophysics required to accurately predict the precise time and coordinate of the appearance of Spock Prime’s ship would presumably be out of reach of 24th century people, otherwise they would be using black holes to travel all the time (no pun intended). It’s a plot hole in and of itself that any of the miners aboard the Narada would be able to predict Spock Prime’s appearance.

As an engineer myself I just presume Nero has his own Scotty…


Amazingly I can look the other way on many of the issues I read about in these forums and still enjoy the movie. But it would be nice if the writers would actually peruse threads like this and give us their “A” game next time out. There’s no reason why a movie can’t be entertaining for the masses and still not generate all these questions from us.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The Lightning storm was not mentioned in Uhura's transmission. Her transmission was possibly heard days earlier.

Recall, Kirk tells Bones he's taking the test again, then he goes to "study," at which point Uhura overhears the transmission about the Klingon prison planet and the destroyed armada.

Next we see the Kobyashi Maru test, which took place at least the next day, maybe even later. After that, presumably after a brief investigation, there was a hearing, at which point the Distress call is received and the fleet mobilizes.

In the midst of all this, after Uhura overhears her transmission and before the distress call from Vulcan, Spock Prime's black hole appears and Nero captures him.

We are given indications that, even though events happen quickly on screen, there is some time that has elapsed.

Logical. However, this presents another plot hole…if days (or even a week or 2?) pass between the overheard transmission and the attack on Vulcan, then why wasn’t the Captain of the Federation Flagship aware of 47 Klingon ships being destroyed? Such a serious impact to the Klingons would surely come up in a briefing, wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t Anderson Cooper be broadcasting the fear of a possible new Romulan super-weapon that eats Klingon ships throughout the galaxy?

Becuase he was only a Captain not a Commodore or Admiral, do you seriously think Picard knew every important Starfleet mission or fact that DID NOT need him to be there in some capacity. Captain of the Federation flagship does not equal Commander of Starfleet.

Chekov stated in his briefing that the lightning storm effect was in the Neutral Zone, not Klingon space. At this point in history, there was no Organian Peace Treaty, therefore no Klingon Neutral Zone. This was obviously referring to the Romulan Neutral Zone, which had existed since the conclusion of the Romulan War 100 years earlier. The Romulan Neutral Zone was not that far from Romulus, and if the Hobus star was able to destroy Romulus several light years away, it's not out of the question that by the time Spock Prime arrived, the Hobus Super Nova could have extended to the neutral zone, scientific improbabilities aside.

Interestingly, however, when Nero appears, the Kelvin is there so it is obviously not the Neutral Zone. In the subspace chatter we hear from the Kelvin, one officer asks if the phenomenon could be Klingon, so evidently there is some reason to suspect the Klingons. This could mean that they are near Klingon space. Then, according to the cut scenes, Nero and Co. are captured by the Klingons. So it would seem that Nero appeared close to Klingon Space, but Spock Prime appeared in the Romulan Neutral Zone.

According to the maps I have…man I cannot believe I’m arguing this with the aid of f-ing maps…there is no way for the Hobus Star, the Neutral Zone, and Klingon Space to be near each other. Romulus is nearer to Earth on the far end of the Empire from it’s Klingon border. So the mention of the Klingons is a plot hole, or just a stab in the dark by a desperate officer grasping at straws.

I would like to think that the Klingon scenes were cut because they make absolutely no sense, spatially, in reference to a supernova on the opposite side of the galaxy from the Klingon Empire. But, I’m sure they were just cut to shorten the movie and beef up DVD sales.

Um you know what the Klingon homeworld and Romlus have in common their a stonethrow away from Earth, so not much of a problem plus withan unstable time vortex its just as likely Spock and Nero could have ended up on different sides of the frikkin galaxy.

 

[JohanKoch]

There have been a lot of threads and messages about the supposed plot holes in the movie.

Here´s Wiki´s definition of a plot hole:

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

By definition, this is a plot hole:

Continuity: When Nero is told that Spock has destroyed the drill and Nero yells, "Spock," Nero's left ear is the one missing its tip instead of his right ear. (This shot was obviously reversed in editing.)

No, that is by definition a continuity error, not a plot hole. The definition you posted does a good job of showing the difference between the two.

So are what are the real plot holes of the movie?

Another one that just occurred to me: Nero want to change the past, so Romulus can thrive without the Federation. Yet, in the future, it seems like the Federation is the only one who can save Romulus. It's certainly implied that the Romulans seem to be sitting around, doing nothing while the supernova approaches, and end up being destroyed when Spock is late arriving.

As a result, by destroying Earth and Vulcan in the past, he is destroying the one faint chance of survival that Romulus has. He is actually guaranteeing the destruction of Romulus.

A better plan would be to go to the past, warn the Federation and or Romulan Empire about the future danger, so they would have plenty of time to prepare for it. But that would make for a less exciting movie...

 

[Hartzilla2007]

There have been a lot of threads and messages about the supposed plot holes in the movie.

Here´s Wiki´s definition of a plot hole:

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

By definition, this is a plot hole:

No, that is by definition a continuity error, not a plot hole. The definition you posted does a good job of showing the difference between the two.

So are what are the real plot holes of the movie?

Another one that just occurred to me: Nero want to change the past, so Romulus can thrive without the Federation. Yet, in the future, it seems like the Federation is the only one who can save Romulus. It's certainly implied that the Romulans seem to be sitting around, doing nothing while the supernova approaches, and end up being destroyed when Spock is late arriving.

As a result, by destroying Earth and Vulcan in the past, he is destroying the one faint chance of survival that Romulus has. He is actually guaranteeing the destruction of Romulus.

A better plan would be to go to the past, warn the Federation and or Romulan Empire about the future danger, so they would have plenty of time to prepare for it. But that would make for a less exciting movie...

Or Nero was just going to take out the Federation and THEN take out the star that would have gone nova in the over 100 years since he had an entire CENTURY to do all this stuff in.

 

[JohanKoch]

See, I know I'm probably regarded as a curmudgeon on these boards but I feel that a good movie should be able to hold up without supplemental material.

And there is absolutely no evidence given in the movie to suggest he had been in the prison. 25 years is a long flipping time for a supership to come rescue their captain.

I don't always agree with you, Kirk1980, but I agree 100% that a movie should stand up on its own without resorting to comic books, deleted scenes, cut lines, interviews with screenwriters, etc.

 

[JohanKoch]

Or Nero was just going to take out the Federation and THEN take out the star that would have gone nova in the over 100 years since he had an entire CENTURY to do all this stuff in.

If it was so easy to "take out the star" (whatever that means), why was the Romulus of the future - with access to all the technology Nero had and more - utterly unable to lift a finger to do so themselves? Why would Nero sitting around in a mining ship for 100 years do any better?

Was he going to kill the star's parents before it was born?

 

[dcbpe]

Becuase he was only a Captain not a Commodore or Admiral, do you seriously think Picard knew every important Starfleet mission or fact that DID NOT need him to be there in some capacity. Captain of the Federation flagship does not equal Commander of Starfleet.

Do you think every Captain in the US Navy would not know of even 1 Russian aircraft carrier being destroyed within a matter of hours..let alone days/weeks and a significant number more than 1? My attempt at humor re: Anderson Cooper aside, I would think that at a minimum the senior officers in Starfleet would know that such a blow was struck to the Klingons in very short order, even if the civilian population didn't learn about it. I would expec the same here in real life.

Um you know what the Klingon homeworld and Romlus have in common their a stonethrow away from Earth, so not much of a problem plus withan unstable time vortex its just as likely Spock and Nero could have ended up on different sides of the frikkin galaxy.

No, I don't know that, but perhaps my map is wrong? Source: www civfanatics net/uploads9/Star_trek_map2.jpg

As for the unstable black hole, it cannot be too unstable because of the predictablity of Spock Prime's appearance. To say that the black hole is unstable and unpredictable is fine, but such an explanation infinitely expands the possibile location/time of Spock Prime's appearance making Nero's ability to find him less and less believable...a plot hole.

For Nero to have been able to know when Spock Prime would appear but not where due to the unstable black hole, and then for him to have intercepted a Klingon transmission about a lighting storm in space which he then presumed was Spock Prime, whom he proceeded to go rescue (destroying 47 Klingon ships in the process) would have been a more believable plot contrivance than to have the apparently omniscient Nero sitting there waiting for him.