Majority of tie-in literature bad?

[Deranged Nasat]

For the life of me I will never understand why some people think killing off characters, in itself, adds depth to a piece of fiction.

There's plenty of mayhem in these books but this is Star TREK, not Star WARS.

Trek is always mayhem-appropriate.

Exactly the argument I've made (repeatedly, sorry )as to why "Destiny" and its destruction was good, and the destruction of Romulus in Trek 09 was not. Usually, the Trek literature I know features destruction and death when it is appropriate and makes sense, not just as a means to an end .

 

[Therin of Andor]

For the life of me I will never understand why some people think killing off characters, in itself, adds depth to a piece of fiction.

But do they? I thought the complaint was from the other angle: with books where no characters were permitted to be killed off. That, over time, such a situation starts to produce mostly shallow, toothless pieces?

 

[Christopher]

For the life of me I will never understand why some people think killing off characters, in itself, adds depth to a piece of fiction.

But do they? I thought the complaint was from the other angle: with books where no characters were permitted to be killed off. That, over time, such a situation starts to produce mostly shallow, toothless pieces?

Well, that's not the opposite angle, just a different slant on the same idea that Geoff is questioning: namely, that allowing the death of characters is beneficial.

Though there is a difference. Geoff is rejecting the notion that killing off characters in and of itself is a source of depth. And that's a fair criticism; death per se is not a substitute for thoughtful storytelling. But that's not the notion your endorsing; you're saying that it's not an end in itself, but something that can have value in the right context and with the right approach, and thus shouldn't be arbitrarily excluded.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well, that's not the opposite angle, just a different slant

Opposite angle, different slant...

But that's not the notion your endorsing

I'm not endorsing anything.

 

[Lee T]

A question that would be worth asking is 'how is tie-in literature perceived by the general public?' Of course this is the wrong place to ask it, as answers will be skewed quite obviously.

I used to not consider reading Trek books because I thought that media tie in novels were sub par non literature books, compared to "real" sci fi books it was fast food vs gourmet cuisine. Another reason why I didn't consider reading those books was the holy canon, since they were not part of the canon, they were not worth the time.

And then I read A Stitch in Time and discovered how much there was to explore. I made my homework and discovered that there were entirely new series within the trek books, that's when I became an avid reader of every book strolling the paths not taken on TV. So far I'm a happy reader as the number of "good books" far outweighs the number of "not so good books" I've read.

One of the big reasons my opinion changed though are the authors. Their dedication to their work made me realize that a book is a book, craft is craft, and writers are writers. A good story well written by someone who do care about his creation is worth reading whether it takes place in a universe created by this particular author or not, period.

As far as I'm concerned there's no "original work" vs "media tie in". Media tie in books are as original as anything written/filmed for the source media with the same ability to be good or bad.

In my opinion the bad rap about media tie in exists because there's people like I used to be (people who consider them to be a marketing ployed lesser by-product) and because it's mainly addressed to fans. The authors have to do double duty. Writing a good book in itself and bringing a new brick to the universe they're writing for, a brick that will have to fit the universe as seen by each and every fan reader.

As for the people surrounding me, few finds those books weird, even fewer made derogatory comments about them. Then again I'm surrounded by people reading the Games Workshop books so they would be ill advised to attack my Trek books .

 

[James Swallow]

As far as I'm concerned there's no "original work" vs "media tie in". Media tie in books are as original as anything written/filmed for the source media with the same ability to be good or bad.

Well said.

As for the people surrounding me, few finds those books weird, even fewer made derogatory comments about them. Then again I'm surrounded by people reading the Games Workshop books so they would be ill advised to attack my Trek books .

As an author who writes both Trek books and Games Workshop books, I'm curious as to what you mean by that. I can assure you that the work and effort put in by the writers of GW tie-ins is no less of that of the writers of Trek tie-ins...

 

[Lee T]

As an author who writes both Trek books and Games Workshop books, I'm curious as to what you mean by that. I can assure you that the work and effort put in by the writers of GW tie-ins is no less of that of the writers of Trek tie-ins...

I can reassure you, this was in no way an attack against either the books or the authors. I haven't read the books but I like the way they seem to expand upon the universe they're based on (plus my friends are big fans and I trust their taste in literature). It's just a way to say that if any of my media tie in reader friends take a pot shot at the media tie in I read, I will answer with a cheerful .

 

[Trent Roman]

For the life of me I will never understand why some people think killing off characters, in itself, adds depth to a piece of fiction.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Merely killing someone off doesn't make you deep, relevant, or even gutsy since pretty much everyone is doing it these days (sort of like people who still think getting a tattoo makes them 'dangerous'). Destruction is easy; creation is hard, and ultimately the more impressive of the two.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[James Swallow]

It's just a way to say that if any of my media tie in reader friends take a pot shot at the media tie in I read, I will answer with a cheerful .

I can agree with that. There's so much derision from outside the tie-in genre, the last thing we need is in-fighting!

 

[Steve Roby]

pretty much everyone is doing it these days

In addition to using death to add depth to fiction, there's the use of death to add depth to characters. Star Trek has been using dead family members for character growth almost since the beginning. Kirk lost his brother early on, and on TNG, pretty much everyone had at least one dead family member. Picard loses his brother and nephew; Riker's mother died when he was young; Worf's parents died when he was young; Data's creator dies; Beverly Crusher's parents died when she was young, and her husband died; Geordi LaForge's mother is missing in action; Deanna Troi's father died when she was young.... That's a lot of dead relatives in a generally peaceful near-Utopia.

 

[Christopher]

Kirk lost his brother early on, and on TNG, pretty much everyone had at least one dead family member. Picard loses his brother and nephew; Riker's mother died when he was young; Worf's parents died when he was young; Data's creator dies; Beverly Crusher's parents died when she was young, and her husband died; Geordi LaForge's mother is missing in action; Deanna Troi's father died when she was young.... That's a lot of dead relatives in a generally peaceful near-Utopia.

Well... these aren't exactly a representative cross-section. Maybe the people who go into space are those who've lost something at home. (Although that doesn't account for those who lost their family members well after they went into space, like Kirk and Picard.)

 

[JB2005]

pretty much everyone is doing it these days

In addition to using death to add depth to fiction, there's the use of death to add depth to characters. Star Trek has been using dead family members for character growth almost since the beginning. Kirk lost his brother early on, and on TNG, pretty much everyone had at least one dead family member. Picard loses his brother and nephew; Riker's mother died when he was young; Worf's parents died when he was young; Data's creator dies; Beverly Crusher's parents died when she was young, and her husband died; Geordi LaForge's mother is missing in action; Deanna Troi's father died when she was young.... That's a lot of dead relatives in a generally peaceful near-Utopia.

Yeah, but realistically how many people can say that they've never known anyone who has died?

 

[Trent Roman]

In addition to using death to add depth to fiction, there's the use of death to add depth to characters. Star Trek has been using dead family members for character growth almost since the beginning. Kirk lost his brother early on, and on TNG, pretty much everyone had at least one dead family member. Picard loses his brother and nephew; Riker's mother died when he was young; Worf's parents died when he was young; Data's creator dies; Beverly Crusher's parents died when she was young, and her husband died; Geordi LaForge's mother is missing in action; Deanna Troi's father died when she was young....

Hmm. Did they, though? Add depth to the characters, I mean. It worked for Worf, although that was as much enabling plot as character. Jack Crusher's death has always influenced the characterization of his wife and son, so that's a good one. And Riker's mother enabled the tension between him and his father, although that was really a one-off affair and could have been accomplished in many other ways. Apart from that, though, I don't think these deaths ever contributed that much to the characters. Picard grieves for the loss of his family in Generations, but it wasn't until the novels got the ball from the films that it had any impact. Dr. Soong, Troi's father, Crusher's parents, La Forge's mother going MIA, and Riker's mother outside of Icarus Factor never really had much impact either. A failing, perhaps, of the series, but then again it's not as if the characters ought to be wracked by constant grief. Death happens, as some people here are fond of saying, and most of the time it won't be a life-changing experience for those connected to the deceased.

(Come to think of it, I don't recall how Crusher's parents died. Has it ever been said, onscreen or otherwise?)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Deranged Nasat]

(Actually, I don't recall how Crusher's parents died. Has it ever been said, onscreen or otherwise?)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Otherwise. In "Death in Winter", it mentions their research vessel was destroyed by Ubarrak. Ubarrak do things like that.

 

[SpaceLama]

Reading Orion's Hounds, and am enjoying it.

 

[rahullak]

^^

Well thought-out... nice ending.

 

[Christopher]

Thanks!

 

[SpaceLama]

I started with that one, because I wanted a purely exploratory Star Trek story - and I was not dissappointed Christopher. What sort of other science fiction do you read, by the way?

Now, I kinda wish they would do a mini-series for TV focusing on the Titan and Aventine. Unlikely - I dunno if Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Tim Russ or Nicole DeBoer would even want to return to Trek - but even if they did, I doubt the will exists amongst the studios.

But on the other hand, the fact that these crews have an existing fanbase from the novels, would guarentee a certain level of success for the show - the way successful anime is adapted from already popular manga, to reduce risks.

Personally, I think there is a lot to be said about short mini-series along the line of HBO's recent one on John Adams - an alien-of-the-week story expanded to mini-series length, to allow more room for more literary-like development.

 

[rahullak]

^^
Yes, I second that. Titan mini-series would be awesome. A full-blown animated series would also be great.

 

[JD]

Now, I kinda wish they would do a mini-series for TV focusing on the Titan and Aventine. Unlikely - I dunno if Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Tim Russ or Nicole DeBoer would even want to return to Trek - but even if they did, I doubt the will exists amongst the studios.

I'm pretty sure Johnathan Frakes and Mirina Sirtis would come back. They both came back quite a bit after TNG ended.