How many new timelines have been created?

[Destructor]

So, as everyone on this board knows, a LOT of people are upset that Star Trek XI has created a new timeline, possibly parallel, possibly deleting the 'prime' timeline that we know and love.

That said, I propose that this happened in Trek across all the different shows at least 47 times that we knew of. Sometimes the damage was repaired, but equally just as often the timeline was changed, often in major ways, by the actions of the carious crews. I prefer to think of the timelines as a shifting entity, constantly being warred across, as depicted in Enterprise. There could be huge changes going on all the time and no-one would know.

Check out all these time travel episodes:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Time_travel_episodes

Almost every single one ends up with a slightly altered reality- not so heavily altered that Vulcan is destroyed, but with the butterfly effect taken into account, who knows?

In summary we should all probably just relax and enjoy the timeline that the episode we're watching takes place in.

 

[nx1701g]

We know that there are multiple realities from the TNG Episode Parallels. In it Data clearly says that there are at least enough that in a couple of days an entire sector of space would be completely filled with Enterprises.

 

[captcalhoun]

there's billions.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Infinte Paradoxes in Infinte Timelines.

 

[DevilEyes]

So, as everyone on this board knows, a LOT of people are upset that Star Trek XI has created a new timeline, possibly parallel, possibly deleting the 'prime' timeline that we know and love.

The writers have stated in interviews that the Prime Timeline still exists.

 

[Kaziarl]

So, as everyone on this board knows, a LOT of people are upset that Star Trek XI has created a new timeline, possibly parallel, possibly deleting the 'prime' timeline that we know and love.

The writers have stated in interviews that the Prime Timeline still exists.

yeah, but many of the more zealous fans believe that to be a true fan, you must ignore what the writers say and JJ is the anti-roddenberry.

 

[JayTheSheriff]

yeah, but many of the more zealous fans believe that to be a true fan, you must ignore what the writers say and JJ is the anti-roddenberry.

Love this..

 

[plynch]

I would add the first timeline (Kelvin pre-Nero) shown in ST XI. That doesn't look/sound/feel like what we "know" the prime timeline to have been like.

 

[Royal Fizzbin]

The Many-worlds interpretation (which the writers of STXI specifically referenced) would posit that a timeline is created with every possible outcome of every action. This leads one to ask what is "significant" enough to create a new timeline. If a new timeline is generated by the random motion of subatomic particles there are far, far, more timelines than atoms in the universe. If the number is not infinite, it is large enough to be infinite for any reasonable purpose.

At least this is how my "quantum mechanics makes me shut down and cry" brain grasps the situation.

 

[Kaziarl]

Actually, I wonder how much of the timeline is the "real" timeline. I mean, one could argue that the normal flow of time, the enterprise c was supposed to get thrown forward, and the klingon war was also supposed to happen. But the timeline got changed, making a new timeline, when the ent-c got sent back.

 

[Finn]

Also what is the prime timeline? The one before TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise (when Sela didn't exist) or before TOS' The city in edge of forever (when Ethel was killed earlier than she ended up)? Before the TNG crew went back in Time's Arrow.

 

[Sector 7]

[CARL SAGAN voice]Billions and billions of timelines.[/CARL SAGAN voice]
For every decision there are at least two- or many more- possible outcomes. What if Troi really acted like a StarFleet officer? Another timeline is created... if Worf had NOT had a kid... if every chick Kirk screwed had a baby...

The possibilities are endless...

 

[Royal Fizzbin]

The one wrench that many-worlds seems to throw in the works is when you travel to the future. When you travel to the past you necessarily create many new timelines. But when you travel to the future, which one do you arrive in? Infinitely many possible futures exist ahead of you and "which" one you came from is probably not only impossible to determine but largely irrelevant as that timeline branched off as soon as you left.

But I don't think that in any case there is any "correct" or "proper" or "primary" timeline. They all exist simultaneously and it just depends on your point of view at a given instant. I'd say that "prime" timeline is a loose term that actually encompasses all the outcomes depicted on screen (e.g. any timelines where the Borg never went back to first contact and any where they did and Picard fixed it are considered "prime").

 

[Kaziarl]

Also what is the prime timeline? The one before TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise (when Sela didn't exist) or before TOS' The city in edge of forever (when Ethel was killed earlier than she ended up)? Before the TNG crew went back in Time's Arrow.

Thats kind of my point. There is now way to know what is the true timeline, so all the bickering, and the "Holy War" from the more zealous fans are a little silly. It's kind of like the episode "Let that be your last battlefield. An insignificant thing has essentially started the Fandom War. You could see it all over the trek XI forum.

 

[Sector 7]

Also what is the prime timeline? The one before TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise (when Sela didn't exist) or before TOS' The city in edge of forever (when Ethel was killed earlier than she ended up)? Before the TNG crew went back in Time's Arrow.

Thats kind of my point. There is now way to know what is the true timeline, so all the bickering, and the "Holy War" from the more zealous fans are a little silly. It's kind of like the episode "Let that be your last battlefield. An insignificant thing has essentially started the Fandom War. You could see it all over the trek XI forum.

That... that's just crazy talk! Part of the fun of this board is watching the fanboys' heads explode when faced with logical arguments.

 

[Kaziarl]

Also what is the prime timeline? The one before TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise (when Sela didn't exist) or before TOS' The city in edge of forever (when Ethel was killed earlier than she ended up)? Before the TNG crew went back in Time's Arrow.

Thats kind of my point. There is now way to know what is the true timeline, so all the bickering, and the "Holy War" from the more zealous fans are a little silly. It's kind of like the episode "Let that be your last battlefield. An insignificant thing has essentially started the Fandom War. You could see it all over the trek XI forum.

That... that's just crazy talk! Part of the fun of this board is watching the fanboys' heads explode when faced with logical arguments.

It can be amusing, but it also gets old after a few months of sillyness.

 

[CoveTom]

I personally do not accept the notion that every time travel story we have seen in Star Trek has followed the 'multiple worlds' theory, nor do I think that's what the writers of either the current or past Treks ever intended.

My theory is that there are multiple methods of time travel.

In one -- the one we've seen most commonly used which occurs as a result of the slingshot effect or the Guardian of Forever or what have you -- you are traveling linearly along your own timeline. Changes that are made at one point in the timeline affect the rest of the timeline, and when you return to your starting point, you are actually at the point where you started, in the same universe and the same reality.

The second form of time travel, which is far more rare and has to be caused by something unusual -- say a black hole interacting with red matter or running a shuttlecraft through a particular type of anamoly on your way home from a bat'leth tournament -- causes you not only to move through time but to move between realities as well. Changes made ripple through the reality you are currently in, and not your original reality.

By using this theory, I say that everything we saw from The Cage all the way up through the end of Enterprise takes place in one original timeline, which the writers of the current film call the 'prime' timeline. It's all been one universe and one reality, except in those cases where it's made clear it's not, such as the mirror universe or "Parallels."

Then, the current film and everything that springs from it is in a different universe that was entered through the second method of time travel and which has diverged from the 'prime' universe. Nothing that occurs in the current film or its offshoots, however, affects the 'prime' universe.

And that's my $0.47.

 

[captcalhoun]

So, as everyone on this board knows, a LOT of people are upset that Star Trek XI has created a new timeline, possibly parallel, possibly deleting the 'prime' timeline that we know and love.

The writers have stated in interviews that the Prime Timeline still exists.

yeah, but many of the more zealous fans believe that to be a true fan, you must ignore what the writers say and JJ is the anti-roddenberry.

some of the REALLY zealous fans don't believe anything post 1979 counts!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I personally do not accept the notion that every time travel story we have seen in Star Trek has followed the 'multiple worlds' theory, nor do I think that's what the writers of either the current or past Treks ever intended.

My theory is that there are multiple methods of time travel.

In one -- the one we've seen most commonly used which occurs as a result of the slingshot effect or the Guardian of Forever or what have you -- you are traveling linearly along your own timeline. Changes that are made at one point in the timeline affect the rest of the timeline, and when you return to your starting point, you are actually at the point where you started, in the same universe and the same reality.

The second form of time travel, which is far more rare and has to be caused by something unusual -- say a black hole interacting with red matter or running a shuttlecraft through a particular type of anamoly on your way home from a bat'leth tournament -- causes you not only to move through time but to move between realities as well. Changes made ripple through the reality you are currently in, and not your original reality.

By using this theory, I say that everything we saw from The Cage all the way up through the end of Enterprise takes place in one original timeline, which the writers of the current film call the 'prime' timeline. It's all been one universe and one reality, except in those cases where it's made clear it's not, such as the mirror universe or "Parallels."

Then, the current film and everything that springs from it is in a different universe that was entered through the second method of time travel and which has diverged from the 'prime' universe. Nothing that occurs in the current film or its offshoots, however, affects the 'prime' universe.

And that's my $0.47.

I agree, although I'll argue there's a third that's similar to the first and that's a predestination paradox. Some method of time travel brings you back in time to create the events that led you doing what you did in the first place. IIRC, Time's Arrow was one of these (although I know there are others). There's also something that Daniels said in some Enterprise episode that could suggest even more time travel types, but I'm too lazy to remember what it is, so I'll ignore it.

 

[Vanyel]

Would the episode Captain's Holiday, have made multiple time lines? At the end the Vorgon's return to the Risa before Picard arrives, and make a new time line from that point.