Klingon Commander!

[Gorn Captain]

This is Admiral James T. Kirk. I'm alive and well on the planet surface. I know that this will come as a pleasant surprise to you, but our ship was a victim of an "unfortunate accident". Sorry about your crew, but as we say on Earth, c'est la vie.


And THIS perfectly sums up the shortcomings of Star Trek III. A great Kirk moment, jabbing at the enemy. And yet nonsensical, because of course you beam to the other ship, not to a disintegrating planet!

And the hero also shouldn't deliver the line dressed in a foofy red suit that makes him look like the manager of the Starbase 9 Pizza Hut.

 

[Therin of Andor]

of course you beam to the other ship

You'd invade a manned enemy vessel via transporter?

not to a disintegrating planet!

Did Kirk know that it was disintegrating yet?

And the hero also shouldn't deliver the line dressed in a foofy red suit that makes him look like the manager of the Starbase 9 Pizza Hut.

He should have changed clothes first?

[Mrs Howell]What does one wear to a planetary disintegration?[/Mrs Howell]

 

[Kaziarl]

of course you beam to the other ship

You'd invade a manned enemy vessel via transporter?

not to a disintegrating planet!

Did Kirk know that it was disintegrating yet?

And the hero also shouldn't deliver the line dressed in a foofy red suit that makes him look like the manager of the Starbase 9 Pizza Hut.

He should have changed clothes first?

[Mrs Howell]What does one wear to a planetary disintegration?[/Mrs Howell]

He did know about the planet, Saavik told him over the klingon comm channel when they were still being held by the klingons, so that might be a good point.

As for the rest, he's got what? Himself, scotty, sulu, checkov, and a rather delerious mccoy? Not exactly a strike force for taking over a ship when he doesn't even know how many are left. The more logical choice would be to free Saavik and Spock first. That way you had Saavik atleast, and it looked like Spock could fight too.

The clothes, yeah, looked silly, but as Therin said, when is he going to have a chance to change? And he certainly didn't know he would be dealing with a klingon.

What he said to the klingon was pretty smart I thought. Implying that he was a poor klingon cause he essentially couldn't deal with a few measly humans. Only a Duras would walk away from that.

 

[Gary Sebben]

I think the whole blowing up the ship with the invasion force on it would have been a bit fruitless if they appeared on the klingon ship 30 seconds before the invasion force was to beam over. Sounds like a bad plan.

 

[Kaziarl]

I think the whole blowing up the ship with the invasion force on it would have been a bit fruitless if they appeared on the klingon ship 30 seconds before the invasion force was to beam over. Sounds like a bad plan.

But they didn't. They timed it so that the same instant they were beaming down, the klingons were beaming over. That way the klingons didn't notice them beaming.

Although i can see that proposing another problem. I doubt the matter stream would be to happy if it crossed with another one.

 

[Gorn Captain]

Okay, you guys are being obtuse, either deliberately or otherwise. I didn't say he should change clothes, I'm saying that the outfit was fucking goofy the whole time. I'm not criticizing his sense of fashion. I'm talking about the wardrobe for the movie.

As for beaming over to the Bird of Prey, I grant that this is debatable. True, he did not exactly have a strike force. And, of course, if they don't beam to the planet, you don't get maybe my favorite moment of Star Trek as they watch the ship disintegrate.

However, taking over the ship is not as ridiculous as has been stated in this thread. Sulu has already told him that the crew complement of the BoP is a dozen officers and men. He can assume that a half dozen of them are beaming aboard the Enterprise. There will be at least one, probably two, remaining on the bridge. That's four people left. Would you expect all four Klingons to be in the transporter room phasers armed? Is beaming over phasers at the ready not at least as plausible as beaming down to a planet that is disintegrating at worst and strands them at best, with the plan being that he's going to hope he can communicate with the Klingon captain and either trick/persuade him to beam them up to the ship that they could have beamed to directly?

 

[Data Holmes]

His civilian suit was the same maroon as the starfleet uniforms...

Maroon had simply taken the place of navy blue.


If a person wore a navy blue suit, would you think it was "goofy"?


Colors and fashion do change as years go by, you know.

 

[Praetor]

I think I understand Gorn Captain's point: there's good stuff in TSFS that's overshadowed by some interestingly goofy conveniences and choices.

 

[zephramc]

However, taking over the ship is not as ridiculous as has been stated in this thread. Sulu has already told him that the crew complement of the BoP is a dozen officers and men. He can assume that a half dozen of them are beaming aboard the Enterprise. There will be at least one, probably two, remaining on the bridge. That's four people left. Would you expect all four Klingons to be in the transporter room phasers armed? Is beaming over phasers at the ready not at least as plausible as beaming down to a planet that is disintegrating at worst and strands them at best, with the plan being that he's going to hope he can communicate with the Klingon captain and either trick/persuade him to beam them up to the ship that they could have beamed to directly?

What if what Sulu said was wrong? As I recall, Sulu was reciting from memory what he knew about the Klingon BoP. He didn't take a sensor scan and say I'm detecting 12 lifeforms. Kirk probably didn't want to chance beaming into a BoP crewed by 50 or 100 men.

Since the transporter was involved, why didn't Kirk just beam the Klingon crew from the BoP down to the planet? The BoPs shields were down. Sensors actually worked well enough to transport Kirk and crew several hundred kilometers down to the planet and within a few meters of Saavik and Spock. Why not go the extra mile and beam the Klingon crew down (1 kilometer or less away from Enterprise) to the planet (though safely away from Saavik), beam over to the BoP, transport Saavik and Spock up, then get the F out of Dodge.

 

[MarianLH]

I think, given the few seconds it takes to materialize, that a boarding party would always be at a disadvantage. Kruge risked it because he had hostages to force Kirk's hand. Kirk & company, on the other hand, would've been sitting ducks in a shooting gallery if they tried beaming over; even one Klingon in the transporter room would've had time for two or three shots before the boarders could react.

Same thing in DS9's "Way Of The Warrior". The Klingons who beamed into Ops suffered a lot of casualties at first, many of them before they could get off a single shot. They only managed to gain a foothold by sheer weight of numbers.

Since the transporter was involved, why didn't Kirk just beam the Klingon crew from the BoP down to the planet?

Perhaps, again, the fact that beaming is not instantaneous might explain it. Perhaps the time it takes to initiate a transporter beam is long enough for the Klingon gunner to notice it and raise the shields?


Marian

 

[cooleddie74]

This is Admiral James T. Kirk. I'm alive and well on the planet surface. I know that this will come as a pleasant surprise to you, but our ship was a victim of an "unfortunate accident". Sorry about your crew, but as we say on Earth, c'est la vie.


And THIS perfectly sums up the shortcomings of Star Trek III. A great Kirk moment, jabbing at the enemy. And yet nonsensical, because of course you beam to the other ship, not to a disintegrating planet!

And the hero also shouldn't deliver the line dressed in a foofy red suit that makes him look like the manager of the Starbase 9 Pizza Hut.

It was a classic Shatner gravitas moment. Sticking it in the enemy's eye before he can twist it for maximum effect. It's not suppsed to make a lot of logical sense. Just sit back and enjoy it.

 

[Gorn Captain]

His civilian suit was the same maroon as the starfleet uniforms...

Maroon had simply taken the place of navy blue.


If a person wore a navy blue suit, would you think it was "goofy"?


Colors and fashion do change as years go by, you know.

Okay, again, I am not commenting on prospective fashion styles in the fictional 23rd century. I am just saying as someone who watched the movie, that the wardrobe department, the budget, the 80's, something failed Bill Shatner because it's a goofy goddamn outfit! Can I have that opinion? Is that okay?

 

[Kaziarl]

His civilian suit was the same maroon as the starfleet uniforms...

Maroon had simply taken the place of navy blue.


If a person wore a navy blue suit, would you think it was "goofy"?


Colors and fashion do change as years go by, you know.

Okay, again, I am not commenting on prospective fashion styles in the fictional 23rd century. I am just saying as someone who watched the movie, that the wardrobe department, the budget, the 80's, something failed Bill Shatner because it's a goofy goddamn outfit! Can I have that opinion? Is that okay?

We aren't saying you can't have an opinion, but you should be made aware that this is a forum. In forums, various opinions get discussed. If you didn't want the discussion, then its kind of silly to post it here.

 

[Anticitizen]

If Kirk had tried to take over the Bird of Prey, all it would take is a word from Kruge and the hostages would be killed. Saving Saavik and Spock were his priority.

 

[trevanian]

If Kirk had tried to take over the Bird of Prey, all it would take is a word from Kruge and the hostages would be killed. Saving Saavik and Spock were his priority.

You don't deal with a type like that by being on the defensive, and KIRK certainly wouldn't unless somebody is writing him badly.

Kirk beams to the BOP (maybe a corridor outside the bridge) and faces 2 guys, since the rest are on ENT. He can then beam his people up.

The planetside evac is as stupid to me as anything ever plotted in TREK, which is saying a lot, even just for SFS.

 

[Data Holmes]

If Kirk had tried to take over the Bird of Prey, all it would take is a word from Kruge and the hostages would be killed. Saving Saavik and Spock were his priority.

You don't deal with a type like that by being on the defensive, and KIRK certainly wouldn't unless somebody is writing him badly.

Kirk beams to the BOP (maybe a corridor outside the bridge) and faces 2 guys, since the rest are on ENT. He can then beam his people up.

The planetside evac is as stupid to me as anything ever plotted in TREK, which is saying a lot, even just for SFS.

Kirk wanted to hurt the commander for ordering the murder of his son. It stopped being tactical planning and a military operation at that point. It was a pissed off father wanting the blood of the man who killed his child.

 

[trevanian]

If Kirk had tried to take over the Bird of Prey, all it would take is a word from Kruge and the hostages would be killed. Saving Saavik and Spock were his priority.

You don't deal with a type like that by being on the defensive, and KIRK certainly wouldn't unless somebody is writing him badly.

Kirk beams to the BOP (maybe a corridor outside the bridge) and faces 2 guys, since the rest are on ENT. He can then beam his people up.

The planetside evac is as stupid to me as anything ever plotted in TREK, which is saying a lot, even just for SFS.

Kirk wanted to hurt the commander for ordering the murder of his son. It stopped being tactical planning and a military operation at that point. It was a pissed off father wanting the blood of the man who killed his child.

Doesn't wash. You don't have him like this and then have him offering Kruge a hand up off the cliff 15min later. If he wanted to hurt the other guy so much that he wasn't thinking, he would have had the ship blow up the way starships are SUPPOSED to blow up, wiping out everything nearby (he didn't know the planet was going to blow at this point, either, only that

SORRY something happened here will try to post later

 

[SonicRanger]

His civilian suit was the same maroon as the starfleet uniforms...

Maroon had simply taken the place of navy blue.


If a person wore a navy blue suit, would you think it was "goofy"?


Colors and fashion do change as years go by, you know.

Okay, again, I am not commenting on prospective fashion styles in the fictional 23rd century. I am just saying as someone who watched the movie, that the wardrobe department, the budget, the 80's, something failed Bill Shatner because it's a goofy goddamn outfit! Can I have that opinion? Is that okay?

A number of the outfits in TSFS were goofy, but far worse than Kirk's maroon suite was Chekov's Dutch boy outfit: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfs/ch5/tsfs0480.jpg

 

[Jeyl]

Still, it's 10x better than:

Kirk: You got it. Arm phasers. Fire everything we've got.

Mike: Jerk
Crow: Dickweed
Tim: Jagoff

 

[Gorn Captain]

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfs/ch5/tsfs0480.jpg[/URL]

Yes, that is indeed quite bad. It's never stood out to me as much, I guess because Chekov didn't have much to do relative to Kirk.