The Cheap Sets of "Nemesis"

[SonicRanger]

Let me start by saying that I am not a Nemesis hater. In fact, I think that, despite its flaws, it was an improvement over Insurrection.

One thing that Insurrection had, though, was a good amount of money spent on locating shooting, building an entire village, and sets like the Sona rejuvenation hall. I had issues with the Sona bridge until the concept behind it, their love of extravagance, was explained in the Insurrection design book.

Nemesis, though, had a number of cheap-looking sets and didn't even go on location for the wedding scene.

Look at that painting! There are wrinkles and shadows in it!
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis036.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis042.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch2/nemesis045.jpg

I mostly hate the stairs-and-jumbo-window set:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch8/nemesis215.jpg

The new Sickbay looked cheap too:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch9/nemesis231.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch9/nemesis232.jpg

In an era of CGI set extensions, this matte painting was pretty bad:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch19/nemesis550.jpg

And I'm still trying to figure out a bridge in the middle of, what, a turbolift shaft?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch20/nemesis600.jpg

Does this really look that ominous? Or like any sort of lab or reactor or whatever?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch21/nemesis640.jpg

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great, and the two-tier design of the Scimitar bridge is an interesting change. But these details really show how much the budget for Nemesis was slashed.

 

[trevanian]

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great, and the two-tier design of the Scimitar bridge is an interesting change. But these details really show how much the budget for Nemesis was slashed.

NEM had more to spend than any other trek flick up til then, I think they just spent it with DIGITAL DOMAIN, the vfx vendor, which has a tendency to charge a helluva lot, even when the results aren't great.

The late charges on INS make it close to the same amount overall, but a lot of that is insane overtime for all the companies doing the revised ending in a short amount of hours.

I think INS wasted a lot of its money on the planet set, they could have found and retrofitted an existing location for less (that is a prob with TFF as well, where they should have used the TOS ARENA example and just modified an old fort set.)

With all the insanely wonderful architecture that has gone up all over the place in the last quarter-century, they could have found a Son'a village or something close to it for less.

If the NEM filmmaking was any good, I'd overlook the bad SCIMITAR bridge and other failings, but there's little to like.

 

[Christopher]

Look at that painting! There are wrinkles and shadows in it!

I think those may actually be reflections of the room's framework in the glass walls.

The new Sickbay looked cheap too:

Looked okay to me, certainly better than the redressed Voyager sickbay in the previous two films. At least it looked big enough to be a credible sickbay for a ship as big as the Sovereign Class. It looks a bit cold and sterile, but this is more of a military ship than its predecessors.

In an era of CGI set extensions, this matte painting was pretty bad:

That's not a matte painting, because there are no mattes involved. A matte is an optical mask used for blocking out part of a film or video image so that a different film or video image can be superimposed in that space. A matte painting is traditionally a painting on glass with a clear opening so that a live film image could be projected behind it (or, in early films like Gone With the Wind, a glass painting actually placed in front of the camera with the live set behind it, achieving the matte (mask) effect in camera). In modern terms, it refers to a painting created in post-production and digitally composited with a live film image shot earlier. A live, on-set painting like this, made to create the illusion of a corridor extension, is called a forced-perspective backdrop. Or a translight, if it's lit from behind (though that's generally used for views outside windows).

 

[SonicRanger]

That's not a matte painting, because there are no mattes involved... A live, on-set painting like this, made to create the illusion of a corridor extension, is called a forced-perspective backdrop.

Yes, of course, that's what I meant. Thanks for correcting my terminology.

Or perhaps we should just call it an analog set extension.

The new Sickbay looked cheap too:

Looked okay to me, certainly better than the redressed Voyager sickbay in the previous two films. At least it looked big enough to be a credible sickbay for a ship as big as the Sovereign Class. It looks a bit cold and sterile, but this is more of a military ship than its predecessors.

It looks like they basically built one or two walls, all perfectly straight and flat, with a bunch of pointless ridges in an attempt to add some sort of visual interest. I actually preferred the redressed Voyager sickbay because it didn't look like just a gray square room.

 

[22 Stars]

Sonic, I agree 100%. They were certainly NOT better than the redressed Voyager sets, in my opinion.

 

[Christopher]

Or perhaps we should just call it an analog set extension.

I like it!

 

[SonicRanger]

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great, and the two-tier design of the Scimitar bridge is an interesting change. But these details really show how much the budget for Nemesis was slashed.

NEM had more to spend than any other trek flick up til then, I think they just spent it with DIGITAL DOMAIN, the vfx vendor, which has a tendency to charge a helluva lot, even when the results aren't great...

NEM reportedly had a $60M budget, and INS reportedly had $58M. That $2M increase from INS to NEM surely wasn't enough to keep up with inflation from 1998 to 2002. After four years, just to keep up with 3% inflation, the budget should've been $65M.

 

[Warp Coil]

I'd say the only thing I really liked about NEM were the Enterprise-E sets. I think they looked quite nice. The bridge and the observation lounge, in particular, never looked better. I agree that the sickbay set looked a little "cheap" in the sense that it seemed unfinished... like they had to construct it quickly and didn't have time to make it interesting. I would have preferred they continue using the VOY sickbay set but by the time they filmed this movie, VOY had ended and their sickbay set was torn down.

I really don't think the issue with NEM were "cheap" sets. Poorly designed, maybe? The dark stairwell and large glass window on the Scimitar was clearly designed for drama, but makes no sense otherwise. And those huge jeffries tubes with the abyss to nowhere... again, makes no logical sense.

 

[Christopher]

The dark stairwell and large glass window on the Scimitar was clearly designed for drama, but makes no sense otherwise.

Why did it have to make sense otherwise? This was part of the flagship of a megalomaniac who had made himself ruler of an entire empire, and it was the place he chose to present himself to visitors. Even in story, it could've been designed for the express and exclusive purpose of allowing him a dramatic and intimidating entrance. One thing most autocrats have in common is a tendency to order extravagant and unnecessary construction projects in order to serve their vanity.

 

[trevanian]

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great, and the two-tier design of the Scimitar bridge is an interesting change. But these details really show how much the budget for Nemesis was slashed.

NEM had more to spend than any other trek flick up til then, I think they just spent it with DIGITAL DOMAIN, the vfx vendor, which has a tendency to charge a helluva lot, even when the results aren't great...

NEM reportedly had a $60M budget, and INS reportedly had $58M. That $2M increase from INS to NEM surely wasn't enough to keep up with inflation from 1998 to 2002. After four years, just to keep up with 3% inflation, the budget should've been $65M.

INS had a much larger scope, what with building the town. Also, while INS originally came in at 58, the added stuff pushed it to about 65. I've always seen NEM listed in the 65-68 range, but since so much of it is shipboard, it didn't look like it put all that up on screen. They should have been able to do it for considerably less, not more.

 

[arch101]

[QUOTE One thing most autocrats have in common is a tendency to order extravagant and unnecessary construction projects in order to serve their vanity.[/QUOTE]

I dunno... As an Architect, I kind of liked a few of Speer's proposed government buildings. But I get what you mean (see: Emperors, Roman Empire)

 

[destructive]

not to mention that HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, stellar cartography set
fucking gray cardboard POS

 

[SonicRanger]

not to mention that HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, stellar cartography set
fucking gray cardboard POS

Ah, yes, how could I have forgotten that!?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch16/nemesis408.jpg

I guess Starfleet cut back on the Stellar Cartography budget for the E-E compared to the E-D:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch9/gen0528.jpg

Of course, Stellar Cartography wasn't always so great on the E-D:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s6/6x19/lessons008.jpg

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Sets of "Nemesis"

Nemesis, though, had a number of cheap-looking sets

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great,

I disagree SonicRanger. You gave even valid examples with photos which was appreciated. It is a matter of taste.
In my post in the Is there a way to try and "learn to love" Nemesis? thread I brought up the Romulus flyover shot and while it was not a physical set it was a set built as a CG model with characters animated and added to it.

And I am amazed at the work in the Romulan Senate chambers done by set designer Alan S. Kaye & Production Designer Herman F. Zimmerman.
The 3-story ENT-E engineering set was pretty cool.

As a fan of production design I can totally appreciate that even if the film is awful. That is why I have a number of DVDs of 'bad' films in my library such.
I can watch the scenes set on the recreated Discovery over and over in "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984).

 

[trevanian]

Re: Sets of "Nemesis"

As a fan of production design I can totally appreciate that even if the film is awful. That is why I have a number of DVDs of 'bad' films in my library such.
I can watch the scenes set on the recreated Discovery over and over in "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984).

That's why I own a couple of horrible Bond films, SPY WHO LOVED ME and MOONRAKER, just for Ken Adam's production design and Derek Meddings' miniatures. Also why I own EVENT HORIZON, another flick I can't stand.

But I'm not sure NEM would qualify. I mean, engineering is left over from FC and INS, and SCIMITAR ship interiors are pretty generic in a looks-like-they-shot-in-a-big-warehouse kinda way.

I do kinda wonder about the Deck 29 fall to infinity thing though. Is that an inverted area, where the viceroy 'falls' all the way UP to deck 1?

 

[jefferiestubes8]

general sets from good production design

As a fan of production design I can totally appreciate that even if the film is awful. That is why I have a number of DVDs of 'bad' films in my library such.

why I own EVENT HORIZON, another flick I can't stand.

trevanian I totally agree. I have the film's special edition and can watch the first half hour and then it goes south for me.

I wish amazing sets could be added to some production design museum in downtown Hollywood or something. I'd pay to walk on the sets of the Discovery from 2001: A Space Odyssey/2010 as well as some Trek sets like Engineering from ST:Enterprise and ST:Voyager & ENT-E from Nemesis.
Also the warship Sulaco from Aliens (1986).

 

[RobertScorpio]

That said, the Romulan senate chambers are great, and the two-tier design of the Scimitar bridge is an interesting change. But these details really show how much the budget for Nemesis was slashed.

NEM had more to spend than any other trek flick up til then, I think they just spent it with DIGITAL DOMAIN, the vfx vendor, which has a tendency to charge a helluva lot, even when the results aren't great.

The late charges on INS make it close to the same amount overall, but a lot of that is insane overtime for all the companies doing the revised ending in a short amount of hours.

I think INS wasted a lot of its money on the planet set, they could have found and retrofitted an existing location for less (that is a prob with TFF as well, where they should have used the TOS ARENA example and just modified an old fort set.)

With all the insanely wonderful architecture that has gone up all over the place in the last quarter-century, they could have found a Son'a village or something close to it for less.

If the NEM filmmaking was any good, I'd overlook the bad SCIMITAR bridge and other failings, but there's little to like.

Your post is the very reason I hope they DO NOT make a new series. Why? Because the movies/TV show would just redress their sets and give both a cheap look to it. And that would send the signal to JOE Q public not to see a movie that is just, in fact, a two-hour tv movie filmed on TV sets...

JJ should be made to read your post...

Rob

 

[RobertScorpio]

That's not a matte painting, because there are no mattes involved... A live, on-set painting like this, made to create the illusion of a corridor extension, is called a forced-perspective backdrop.

Yes, of course, that's what I meant. Thanks for correcting my terminology.

Or perhaps we should just call it an analog set extension.

The new Sickbay looked cheap too:

Looked okay to me, certainly better than the redressed Voyager sickbay in the previous two films. At least it looked big enough to be a credible sickbay for a ship as big as the Sovereign Class. It looks a bit cold and sterile, but this is more of a military ship than its predecessors.

It looks like they basically built one or two walls, all perfectly straight and flat, with a bunch of pointless ridges in an attempt to add some sort of visual interest. I actually preferred the redressed Voyager sickbay because it didn't look like just a gray square room.

Your OP was great...anyone nitpicking your OP knows what you're trying to say...THE MOVIE SETS looked cheap in Nemesis. You go right on with posts like this. I actually found it quite interesting.

Rob

 

[SonicRanger]

Re: Sets of "Nemesis"

And I am amazed at the work in the Romulan Senate chambers done by set designer Alan S. Kaye & Production Designer Herman F. Zimmerman.

Yes, I thought the Romulan Senate chambers were well done. I love the benches -- ancient history buffs may recognize them.

The 3-story ENT-E engineering set was pretty cool.

That was left over from two movies earlier.

I can watch the scenes set on the recreated Discovery over and over in "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984).

Yes, I appreciated that when I just saw 2001 and 2010 a week or two ago. They did recreate the pod bay and one corridor, but I think the "cockpit" was new to 2010 because they didn't want to recreate the big ring. The corridor, though, seemed to attach to the wrong place -- directly to the side door to the pod bay. And how gravity works in the pod bay makes no sense in either film. But, true, those sets are great recreations.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Re: Sets of "Nemesis"

And I am amazed at the work in the Romulan Senate chambers done by set designer Alan S. Kaye & Production Designer Herman F. Zimmerman.

Yes, I thought the Romulan Senate chambers were well done. I love the benches -- ancient history buffs may recognize them.

The 3-story ENT-E engineering set was pretty cool.

That was left over from two movies earlier.

I can watch the scenes set on the recreated Discovery over and over in "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984).

Yes, I appreciated that when I just saw 2001 and 2010 a week or two ago. They did recreate the pod bay and one corridor, but I think the "cockpit" was new to 2010 because they didn't want to recreate the big ring. The corridor, though, seemed to attach to the wrong place -- directly to the side door to the pod bay. And how gravity works in the pod bay makes no sense in either film. But, true, those sets are great recreations.

On CINEMAX late night I was watching one of their soft-porn movies. Not sure what it was called. But I swear they were using the KLINGON set from STAR TREK movies. Did anyone else see this?

And what about my CONGO thread from last year? I still maintain that the control room they walk through at the start of that movie is the BRIDGE set from the movies...its so blatant AND a paramount movie as well..

Rob