Parody of Giacchiono's Star Trek theme music.
- Thread starter Gepard
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Music debates are usually fruitless because music is the most abstract of the arts and thus the most subjective, BUT:
While a film score having specific themes and leitmotifs is a classic, time-honored approach (Shore's massively-motifed LOTR score is probably now the gold standard for this approach), one could also argue that a movie like Star Trek with so much action, so much narrative--and so many audiences to please--a simple single theme unifies and clarifies the movie. (I think Jarre's score for Lawrence of Arabia does this.)
Imagine if Star Trek had had motifs for every major character, planet, ship, or emotion ("The Dead Parent Theme"), the score might have been a jumbled mess.
To each his own, and of course I'm sure professionals listen to a score (or look at a composition or set) and say "Dang, *I* coulda done that better!," and, what's more, I bet it's often true. Verta rightly says that film is collaborative and the composer does NOT usually have the final say, so I'm guessing that even the actual composer/DP/editor looks at their own films and says "I coulda done THAT better!"
Nevertheless, I think ST's score is quite effective in its simplicity (and subtlety), and I think it (literally!) underscores the film's open emotional directness, which, along with its unabashed momentum, is the film's abiding strength.
While a film score having specific themes and leitmotifs is a classic, time-honored approach (Shore's massively-motifed LOTR score is probably now the gold standard for this approach), one could also argue that a movie like Star Trek with so much action, so much narrative--and so many audiences to please--a simple single theme unifies and clarifies the movie. (I think Jarre's score for Lawrence of Arabia does this.)
Imagine if Star Trek had had motifs for every major character, planet, ship, or emotion ("The Dead Parent Theme"), the score might have been a jumbled mess.
To each his own, and of course I'm sure professionals listen to a score (or look at a composition or set) and say "Dang, *I* coulda done that better!," and, what's more, I bet it's often true. Verta rightly says that film is collaborative and the composer does NOT usually have the final say, so I'm guessing that even the actual composer/DP/editor looks at their own films and says "I coulda done THAT better!"
Nevertheless, I think ST's score is quite effective in its simplicity (and subtlety), and I think it (literally!) underscores the film's open emotional directness, which, along with its unabashed momentum, is the film's abiding strength.
On the TMP dvd, there's a great special feature that shows the original composition for the Enterprise flyby sequence. It's pretty enough, but Robert Wise looked at the reel, and remarked... 'there's no theme.' Goldsmith said something to the effect of, 'huh, you're right' and the TMP/TNG theme was born.
I kinda felt the same about this movie's score - there was no real theme to it.
I kinda felt the same about this movie's score - there was no real theme to it.
Of course there was. Heck, it replayed all the time throughout the film. It was most obvious during the sequence just after the bar fight where Kirk is contemplating the Kelvin and drives up to see the Enterprise under construction.
It's a little short and insubstantial to constitute a theme, I think. More of a hook, really. Wiki's definition:
A hook has been defined as a "part of a song, sometimes the title or key lyric line, that keeps recurring."[3]. Alternatively, the term has been defined as "the foundation of commercial songwriting, particularly hit-single writing", which varies in length from the repetition of "one note or a series of notes...[to] a lyric phrase, full lines, or an entire verse. The hook is 'what you're selling'. Though a hook can be something as insubstantial as a 'sound' (such as da doo ron ron), "ideally [it] should contain one or more of the following: (a) a driving, danceable rhythm; (b) a melody that stays in people's minds; (c) a lyric that furthers the dramatic action, or defines a person or place."
A hook is definitely part of a theme, of course, but the whole damn thing can't be a hook!
I thought that the score worked very well in the context of the movie, but was surprised to find that when I listened to it on Youtube, it didn't really stand alone as great music. I don't think I'll buy the score on CD ... I'll just get the film on DVD and enjoy the music the way it was meant to be listened to -- as lovely musical support for a very entertaining movie.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
He certainly lacks... new ideas.
So then you would consider the theme from the first movement of Beethoven's 5th Symphony just a "hook"?
Michael Giacchino's Star Trek score isn't my favorite of his, but I still think it's pretty damn good, with moments of greatness, and not as one dimensional as some might think. There are quite a few different layers going on in the music, and if you shuffle between this score with those of I, II, III, and VI you'll see just how much of the Trek musical DNA is there. It's able to subtly evoke the past with certain harmonies and intervals without blatantly reusing melodies, except where a direct connection is required.
I've been thinking about the differences between the style of music for this fillm and the older ones and it comes down to what each one needed to do. This film's score not only had a deep Sound Design to compete with but also the action of the most visually intense Star Trek movie ever shot. As a result, I think, the music is more complementary then focal. Where as the score in TMP had to pick up a lot of the slack due to empty sound fx tracks and static camera work.
Actually, yeah, kinda. Note, I'm not saying 'hooks are bad'. But Beethoven's 5th wouldn't make for a good movie theme, would it?
mverta, a member from the RPF who joined here a while back (but hasn't posted much) put up a parody/commentary version of Giacchanio's theme from the movie on his website. Even though I liked most of the film, I have to agree the music isn't much, and...well, the bit about it being loud is spot on.
I feel more sorry for him than I do for the rest of us who he "can't believe love this movie".
The first time I heard mverta's version of the TOS theme, well before the movie premiered, I liked the novelty of it. Contrasted with Giacchino's treatment, though, it's not much.
There's nothing about Courage's piece that lends itself to the orchestral, pseudo-Williams bombast that mverta slathers over it ("oh, here, let's put a little 'Raiders' right here!"). Giacchino, at least, seems to appreciate the music enough to leave the period idiom pretty much alone.
Presumably mverta was being "intentionally derivative."
There's nothing about Courage's piece that lends itself to the orchestral, pseudo-Williams bombast that mverta slathers over it ("oh, here, let's put a little 'Raiders' right here!"). Giacchino, at least, seems to appreciate the music enough to leave the period idiom pretty much alone.
Presumably mverta was being "intentionally derivative."
Not only do I like the music in the movie, I even quite enjoyed the music in this "parody." I don't suppose there's a copy available without the voiceover?
Just get a keyboard and learn to play those six notes over and over.
All cheekiness aside, it's probably time to re-clarify exactly what my original TOS theme (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=59138) was about, since there has been at least 1000x times the energy put into talking about it than was ever put into it.
It was a speed writing exercise. Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't particularly intended to be anything, just an exercise to see how quickly I could execute a "first idea," idea, start to finish. I do them all the time to stay sharp. I absolutely thought to use a little bit of Goldsmith-ish stuff, a little bit of Horner-ish stuff; it wasn't any big statement I was making, simply a sketch. Usually I don't share sketches; in this case I did, and I'm glad for a lot of reasons. And there's simply going to be "Williams-esque" stuff in my music; that's how I write. And that stuff, incidentially, isn't Williams-esque, it's Schuman/Barber/Vaughan Williams/Holst-esque, which is who Williams stole it from. But I digress.
The point is, it is certainly not representative of what I'd "really" do if handed the gig, and sure as hell not what I'd have done if I'd been handed this particular movie. A movie, which I understand a lot of people enjoy. A lot of people eat insects, too, though, so clearly it takes all kinds to make a world.
Nonetheless, my "parody," wasn't actually about Giacchino's "score," as much as it was a comment on the film. This is why I mentioned the proliferation of lasers, lens flares, and overall noise; why my conclusion wasn't "I can't believe people like this music," but "I can't believe people like this movie." The score was just one glaring element which typified the movie in my opinion: It had nothing to say.
But as I said earlier, don'tcha sweat it. Mikey's got plenty more work ahead of him, I'm just sure of it. And if I'm really any good, I'm sure I'll have plenty of chances to prove it. Certainly actions speak louder than words. Even words shouted into a Logistics webcam.
_Mike
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Gee, tell the rest of us bug-eaters what you really think.
Nobody has to apologize or justify what they like or don't like; I'm not saying that. I thought the movie was substance-less ass with absolutely no character development, which sold both Kirk, the Enterprise, and the entire courageous mission of the show short. But I don't wish people to have had a bad experience; if you loved it, that's great!: You had fun, and didn't feel like you'd paid $10 to be bent over without a towel to bite on. You're not "less than" in my eyes because you had fun and I didn't.
_Mike
_Mike
You're both so very mean and so very polite at the same time. I don't know what to make of that.
Then again, you're married to Danica McKellar, so you must be doing something right.
