Have people actually looked read the article and looked as the diagrams and pictures?
Shuttle Atlantis - small knob/big damage
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
Have people actually looked read the article and looked as the diagrams and pictures?
G
Garrovick
Guest
Too many here thinking "knob" and not "window/airframe" integrity. The window is the real issue.
Precisely. And this isn't a knob like what's on the radio in your Ford Pinto. It's much more than that and it has already made "impressions" on the window pane. This isn't something you just pop out with a screwdriver and call it good-to-go.
That is a space-vechile that will be in a vaccum and re-entering the earth's atmosphere at mach speeds. Due caution and precision is called for here.
it's a versatile balloon...that's all i'm sayin
[QUOTE
Atlantis was due to fly 10 missions next year but the question comes down to cost and time to repair. Speculation is that it could lead to Atlantis being grounded earlier than planned.
[/QUOTE]
Whoa. Um, NASA never flew 10 missions in a single year when they had FOUR shuttles and much laxer flight regulations. You sure about this?
Atlantis was due to fly 10 missions next year but the question comes down to cost and time to repair. Speculation is that it could lead to Atlantis being grounded earlier than planned.
[/QUOTE]
Whoa. Um, NASA never flew 10 missions in a single year when they had FOUR shuttles and much laxer flight regulations. You sure about this?
Whoa. Um, NASA never flew 10 missions in a single year when they had FOUR shuttles and much laxer flight regulations. You sure about this?[/QUOTE]
I could of made mistake with the number but the article did talk about the workload for the shuttles so it would be easy to check.
From the article...
Why can't they just pressurize the inside of the shuttle and recreate the expansion that occurs in space?
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Because 14.7 psi is 1 standard atmosphere, a unit so named because it is the pressure exerted by Earth's atmosphere at sea level. In other words, the shuttle is pressurized to that level already. The reason everything contracted is because the gas outside the shuttle is similarly pressurized.
Causing the shuttle to expand requires pressurizing it to double what it is rated for, which could very well cause even worse damage, or stripping the Earth of its atmosphere, which is inadvisable.
They're going to have to replace the window, anyway. It's already damaged, they can't risk it failing in space. So, just take the whole window out, remove the knob, and then put in a new one. Simple.
Then I guess it would come down to how long it would take to remove the window, have a new one manufactured, tested etc etc.
Would the expansion of the shuttle be due to heat (like the way the Concorde grew about 3cm longer while in supersonic flight).
It would seem to me then, that the shuttle is 'rated for' a pressure differential of 14.7 psi between the inside and outside of the cabin. On Earth, that difference would normally be zero. Why would increasing the inside pressure by 14.7 psi place any more stress on the shuttle than keeping the inside pressure as is and subjecting the outside to a vacuum?
In any case, if the window is damaged beyond safe limits it's a moot point.
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You might be able to increase the pressure in the shuttle so it expands enough to get the knob out, but a human might not be able to withstand the pressure in the cabin in order to get at the thing.
Since I can't contact MacGyver (he always leaves his phone behind when he goes on an adventure) I think the best solution is hyzmarca's; remove the window because they'll probably have to replace it anyway.
Since I can't contact MacGyver (he always leaves his phone behind when he goes on an adventure) I think the best solution is hyzmarca's; remove the window because they'll probably have to replace it anyway.
2 atmospheres won't harm a human. Divers experience worse. Though depressurizing too fast might cause the bends. But I don't believe that the shuttle is capable of pressurizing itself to that point, and there may be equipment inside the shuttle that can't stand that pressure.
It would be wise for them to replace the window anyway. Tolerances be damned, I wouldn't risk sending anyone up there without replacing it.
This is, however, this does demonstrate two very obvious design flaws for other shuttle designers to consider. The most important flaw highlighted is the lack of modularity and standardization. A repair that would be trivial on a modular system is going to take six months on the shuttle, because it wasn't designed for ease of repair in mind. The ability to safely swap out components in a couple of hours instead of six months is something that the engineers Branson's Spaceship 2 should really consider including in the design. It would save a fortune in the long rum.
It would be wise for them to replace the window anyway. Tolerances be damned, I wouldn't risk sending anyone up there without replacing it.
This is, however, this does demonstrate two very obvious design flaws for other shuttle designers to consider. The most important flaw highlighted is the lack of modularity and standardization. A repair that would be trivial on a modular system is going to take six months on the shuttle, because it wasn't designed for ease of repair in mind. The ability to safely swap out components in a couple of hours instead of six months is something that the engineers Branson's Spaceship 2 should really consider including in the design. It would save a fortune in the long rum.
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I still say the "biggest flaw" is that the guy who dropped the knob in there in the first place didn't retrieve it.
They're probably lucky the knob isn't a little bigger, the window a little closer to the dash, or any one of hundreds of other things weren't just a bit different or else the window may have failed during re-entry.
They're probably lucky the knob isn't a little bigger, the window a little closer to the dash, or any one of hundreds of other things weren't just a bit different or else the window may have failed during re-entry.
TheWifeOfBrian
Lieutenant Commander
I still say the "biggest flaw" is that the guy who dropped the knob in there in the first place didn't retrieve it.
They're probably lucky the knob isn't a little bigger, the window a little closer to the dash, or any one of hundreds of other things weren't just a bit different or else the window may have failed during re-entry.
"Nice going, Bob. You've ruined the space-shuttle"
"Sod off, I'm just a janitor."
I think it may be time for some Mighty Putty. It has to strength to withstand storm force winds. And the power to pull this 100 ton orbiter.
The total number of shuttle missions left on the roster is 10. Atlantis will fly two of them, one in November, the other one in May 2010.
There has indeed been talk about not bothering with the risky repair job and just retiring Atlantis a bit earlier than intended. In fact, originally Atlantis was to have been retired after her latest mission and used as a spare parts supply for Discovery and Endeavour.
On Space.com, a NASA spokesperson has said that the main goal for the repairs is to not damage the window, rather than remove the knob at all cost. The dry ice method, to try and contract the knob, has not worked, so logically they'd be looking at removing the window and replacing it. Sadly, there's no experience for that: the window consists of three panes and while the outer one is routinely replaced, the other two are not. The company who designed and built the windows in the first place no longer exists, so it remains to be seen how and if it can be done at KSC.
But I'm very curious to see how things develop. It would be sad to see Atlantis retire already.
How topical! I just read this Tweet from NASA:
