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Matt Jeffries Intentions / Federation Vessel Hull Numbers

CuttingEdge100 said:
Playing the game, going with Matt Jeffries original hull designation scheme, with some modifications...

1.) NCC being changed to Naval Construction Contract as F.J. Schnaubelt proposed as NC isn't used anymore since the early 1950's for aircraft designation and is invalid.

2.) The first vessel in the class gets a -00 registry.

3.) The 1701 being used as a tail-number with a more formal designation like Naval Construction Contract 17-00, which allows provision for more than 100 vessels in the class built for example 17-99 (1799) and 17-100 (on the hull as 17100). As I said this isn't much different than 62-0001 being the formal designation for the first XB-70, but the tail number being 20001.


What classes would fit into these numbers?

Naval Construction Contract 01-00 / NCC-100 = Daedalus-Class (NCC-176 was the USS Horizon)
Naval Construction Contract 02-00 / NCC-200 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 03-00 / NCC-300 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 04-00 / NCC-400 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 05-00 / NCC-500 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 06-00 / NCC-600 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 07-00 / NCC-700 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 08-00 / NCC-800 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 09-00 / NCC-900 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 10-00 / NCC-1000 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 11-00 / NCC-1100 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 12-00 / NCC-1200 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 13-00 / NCC-1300 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 14-00 / NCC-1400 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 15-00 / NCC-1500 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 16-00 / NCC-1600 = ???
Naval Construction Contract 17-00 / NCC-1700 = Constitution Class
Naval Construction Contract 18-00 / NCC-1800 = Miranda/Avenger-Class (USS Reliant)


- The Daedalus was designed in 2156
- The Federation was established in 2161
- The Constitution class was designed in 2243 or 2245

So basically this designation system would have to cover 87 or 89 years of ships, with 17 distinct classes developed over that time period. That comes out to on average one class of ship every 5 years. The Daedalus was around awhile, so it's possible that years went by then a bunch of different ships were developed, one or two created here and there, then time went by and a few more were developed.


CuttingEdge100
Click to expand...

I like this. A lot. I'm not sure if it's totally workable, and I still hate the idea of "Naval Construction Contract" a little, but I do like the scheme. I suppose a good question would also be whether to include FJ's ship classes?

Also, don't forget that U.S.S. Grissom was NCC-638. Perhaps this scheme would be replaced by a flatly sequential one by the 2290s/2300s?
 
Captain Robert April said:
I think we may have stumbled into something here.

What if the Constitution's registry number is actually in the 16xx range? Like NCC-1650? That would easily account for all those other alleged Constitution class ships with registry numbers in that range, with Enterprise just being built later in the production run than we'd been led to believe.
Click to expand...

Actually, you could even take it further back. We have both the Constellation (NCC-1017), and the Eagle (NCC-956). For all we know, the Constitution could have been NCC-900, which would take into account every Connie known, whether its registry was 956 or 1895.
 
I went and looked, the episode that showed the Registry of Kongo was "Court Martial", season 1.
Here's the kicker, "The Doomsday Machine" was a second season episode!
If the hull number scheme was Matt Jeffries idea, why would he all over the place with numbers?

James
 
The Kongo was not in "Court Martial," nor was any registry given for it or any other ship in that episode. There was only a wall chart of NCC numbers without any names.
 
Plus, what happens when you go beyond 99 (or 100 in the case of a -00 start) ships of a class with this system. There must have been more than 100 Excelsiors made at the very least, surely...
 
Praetor,

I like this. A lot. I'm not sure if it's totally workable, and I still hate the idea of "Naval Construction Contract" a little, but I do like the scheme. I suppose a good question would also be whether to include FJ's ship classes?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd want to include all of FJ's ship classes, as I don't like many of his designs (though I do like the Federation-class Dreadnought)
 
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SoM,

Plus, what happens when you go beyond 99 (or 100 in the case of a -00 start) ships of a class with this system. There must have been more than 100 Excelsiors made at the very least, surely...
Click to expand...

I guess you could use a hull number like NCC-17100 (assuming it was a Constitution Class)

Formal documentation would have Naval Construction Contract 17-100 or N.C.C. 17-100 listed
 
CuttingEdge100 said:
Praetor,

I like this. A lot. I'm not sure if it's totally workable, and I still hate the idea of "Naval Construction Contract" a little, but I do like the scheme. I suppose a good question would also be whether to include FJ's ship classes?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I'd want to include all of FJ's ship classes, as I don't like many of his designs (though I do like the Federation-class Dreadnought)
Click to expand...

Well, that's the benefit of them being non-canon, I suppose. Myself, I'd include at least a version of each of them. We could fudge the numbers, potentially.

So, in summary, we know the following:

  1. MJ made up the number "NCC-1701" because it looked good, and later rationalized that 17 meant first series, 01 first model.
  2. Constellation had "NCC-1017" as a decal rearrangement that would theoretically make it stand out.
  3. Besides establishing a list names for other Starships, the TOS production did not establish a list of registries.
  4. "Court Martial" offered us a list of ship registries that we don't know to correspond with everything.
  5. FJ came up with his own scheme that seemed somewhat based on MJ's.
  6. The next registry number we saw was NCC-1864 for Reliant in TWOK, followed by NCC-638 and NX-2000 in TSFS, and then the Saratoga in TVH.
  7. The TNG production purposefully ignored/refuted the FJ scheme, which, having been based on the MJ scheme, kind of kills that.
Any corrections/additions to this?
 
Dukhat said:
Captain Robert April said:
I think we may have stumbled into something here.

What if the Constitution's registry number is actually in the 16xx range? Like NCC-1650? That would easily account for all those other alleged Constitution class ships with registry numbers in that range, with Enterprise just being built later in the production run than we'd been led to believe.
Click to expand...

Actually, you could even take it further back. We have both the Constellation (NCC-1017), and the Eagle (NCC-956). For all we know, the Constitution could have been NCC-900, which would take into account every Connie known, whether its registry was 956 or 1895.
Click to expand...

Do we know for sure Constellation is a constitution class ship? I mean, they obviously have many similarities but there's no reason all ship classes would have to be noticeably different, especially if between the two of them one ship might have dramatically different weapons/sensors/engine configurations despite cosmetic appearances.
 
My, oh my, how I wish that MJ had simply labeled Enterprise as "CH-17" for Cruiser (Heavy), Hull Number 17. Or some such.

In fact, in my own personal canon (a mental reboot, if you will), Starships ARE designated in such ways.
 
Or just not numbered at all. There weren't supposed to be multiple Enterprises in use at the same time, after all.
 
"NCC" might indicate the vessel type, you know. Sort of like "SSN-688" describes a nuclear powered attach submarine. In that sense the constitution class may be officially known as the 1700 class of exploration cruisers.
 
Great thread. I was aware of Franz Joseph originating the Naval Construction Contract. A few other bits I'm either learning about new, or refresh my memory.

Interesting thing about the Constellation number being NCC-1017, if they had added some sizable battle damage just shy of the "7" on the end, it could've been an honorary name. The "-A" getting Jeffries' system out of trouble. Constellation could be a name reused from an earlier 10th class and maybe got to keep an historical registry but with the extra character on the end.

Shaw said:
doomsdaymachine_1960s.jpg
Click to expand...
Is my eyesight failing me or is that top ship not Matt Decker's ship at all? I read Constantinople. Was that change intentional?

Also if Daedalus-Class span the NCC-100s, I assume we can retcon NCC-00s Enterprise-Class. The NX should really a temporary name... Maybe once other ships joined the 01 and 02, the experiment had run its course. On the otherhand, I was browsing Doug Dexler's blog a while back and noticed just "NC" on a ship. The Admiralty Shuttlepod seen during Regeneration, as I recall. Maybe that's something different which applies to vehicles based at Starfleet facilities. Or a precursor to NCC that was on all ships. Proper classes of Earth Starfleet vessels didn't seem to be around long enough on screen to read their hulls. The half saucer Intrepid turning up to defend Enterprise from Klingons in "The Expanse" or taking a direct hit to a nacelle in "Twilight". Never close or still enough to see in detail.
 
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