Old Fans, their fears.
- Thread starter Tuvok
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I'm not a snob or old (just 29) and my first exposure was just before TNG with 'The Devil in the Dark', I think, but... this movie didn't grab me the way the original series did nor did I think it was a well-made movie.
I thought the writing was lazy, the camera movement destructive to any sense of drama and so on and so on. It was fun, much like Transformers was fun. I've yet to rewatch Transformers since seeing it in the theaters. That's probably the fate of this film, too.
Agree definitely with the previous posters who cautioned against those who demand people like this film. I wouldn't say your opinions must match mine and I respect your decisions to decide what makes a film worth your while. JJ's version did nothing for me in the long term.
I thought the writing was lazy, the camera movement destructive to any sense of drama and so on and so on. It was fun, much like Transformers was fun. I've yet to rewatch Transformers since seeing it in the theaters. That's probably the fate of this film, too.
Agree definitely with the previous posters who cautioned against those who demand people like this film. I wouldn't say your opinions must match mine and I respect your decisions to decide what makes a film worth your while. JJ's version did nothing for me in the long term.
First Mr. Hard...I've missed you so and I've been counting the days until you've returned..and now my wish and dreams have been realized!!! Life is worth living again!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure what to feel about you.
You seem to be the only one around here that I kind of "fight" with
I don't really care on what you post on or don't post on. Feel free to do what your mind and heart tells you.
It's my choice what to talk about or respond to. And when a certain subject has been discussed 100 times and all those times the discussion leads nowhere and nobody is willing or able to listen to any argument from the other side...well then yes I consider any further discussions pointless and a waste of time.
Well, then it seems we read different topics because that's not what I've been reading.
Problems the movie does have. And hopefully they will be fixed for the sequel.
But a lack of heart, soul, themes and rushed emotion are not among those problems.
yawn.... and when all else fails lets say people are JJ asskissers and kool aid drinkers.
Lame even for you.
As I said the movie does have problems, this is undeniable and obvious.
And I pointed them out once upon a time when I wrote my review of the movie in the relevant thread. And a few times in other threads. Or at least pointed out what were the problems in my opinion.
I don't care if you like the movie or not. I gain nothing either way.
I just also don't care for misrepresentation of "facts" such as "most old fans dislike the new movie" or "most think it lacks heart and soul" when it's pretty clear by many conversations here that those things are not what most people think.
Look, it can be that the film simply didn't click for some fans and that's the end of it. That's fine. It was bound to happen. Case closed, there.
The fans who were predisposed to dislike the movie and reject it outright for "not being Star Trek" are the interesting ones. And, I think part of the problem there is they are holding this movie to a standard that over the years Trek seldom met, even when it was good. The quality of Trek has been all over the place. Sometimes there was true pathos. Other times, just corn-ball moralizing. Sometimes the story was a good comic romp ("The Trouble with Tribbles"). Other times, the story was just plain stupid (do we reach, Herbert?). There was true drama. There was also true camp. For every "City on the Edge of Forever" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" there was a "Spectre of the Gun" or "Masks". There was TWOK. Then, there was TFF. The same crew who gave us FC also gave us NEM.
So, what the hell is "the feel" of Trek? There isn't one other than an archtype created mostly out of a conceited Trek mythos about its qualities, not Trek reality. The realistic Trek spectrum is very wide. How can't there be room for ST09 within it? How can "Day of the Dove" fit in and "feel" like Trek, and ST09 doesn't?
I tend to think Trek is in good hands with Abrams and his buddies, but that doesn't mean I think Abrams is a genius, or Orci and Kurtzman are great scribes. Of course, Roddenberry wasn't a genius, either. And, let's not forget that Gene Coon wrote "Spock's Brain".
The fans who were predisposed to dislike the movie and reject it outright for "not being Star Trek" are the interesting ones. And, I think part of the problem there is they are holding this movie to a standard that over the years Trek seldom met, even when it was good. The quality of Trek has been all over the place. Sometimes there was true pathos. Other times, just corn-ball moralizing. Sometimes the story was a good comic romp ("The Trouble with Tribbles"). Other times, the story was just plain stupid (do we reach, Herbert?). There was true drama. There was also true camp. For every "City on the Edge of Forever" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" there was a "Spectre of the Gun" or "Masks". There was TWOK. Then, there was TFF. The same crew who gave us FC also gave us NEM.
So, what the hell is "the feel" of Trek? There isn't one other than an archtype created mostly out of a conceited Trek mythos about its qualities, not Trek reality. The realistic Trek spectrum is very wide. How can't there be room for ST09 within it? How can "Day of the Dove" fit in and "feel" like Trek, and ST09 doesn't?
I tend to think Trek is in good hands with Abrams and his buddies, but that doesn't mean I think Abrams is a genius, or Orci and Kurtzman are great scribes. Of course, Roddenberry wasn't a genius, either. And, let's not forget that Gene Coon wrote "Spock's Brain".
If I may offer this, I don't believe that is what Borgminister means necessarily. You can know of something but not be properly introduced to it. I may know about a certain musical artist but have never been introduced to them via their music, etc.
I've wondered about that. The vociferous ones may even harbor some resentment about the direction in which Abrams went, too. The TNG era is apparently over.
While I'm Still trying to sort out how I feel about the movie, and a whole lot of it isn't positive, I think I can explain some of the trepidations some fans (old or young) have about it. With a tastey metaphor!
I'm thirsty as hell! Haven't had a drink in YEARS, it seems. parched. AND, I am very, very fond of grape soda.
There's a store in the neighborhood that has always sold grape soda and I've spent much of my time hanging out there drinking down the fizzy goodness.
I wander into the store, find a new manager, and when I ask for a grape soda, he hands me lemon-lime. WTF? I spend a lot of time explaining that this is NOT grape and why and how much I really, really want my grape soder. The manager yawns. "We've got lemon-lime. Everybody likes lemon-lime. Do you want it or not?"
I hold out for as long as I can stand it, but let's be honest, I'm DYING of thirst here! So...I buy the lemon-lime soda and drink it down, grimacing most of the way.
The flavor is totally different than what I'm used to, but it is fresh bubbly soda and it does help with the thirst. After that first bottle, all I can say for sure is that it is not grape, and that it does quench the awful thirsties.
I can't even tell you that much about what the flavor is like or whether or not I genuinely like lemon-lime. I'll have to buy and drink a second bottle for that.
Now that I know it's not grape and have gotten that out of my system, I'm just about ready to give the lemonie-limishness a fair sample.
Mmm. Tastey metaphor. No?
Damn. Now I'm thirsty again. I'm not sure that I can wait till the weekend to go back for that second bottle. Man, the old gang are so going to razz me about this...
I'm thirsty as hell! Haven't had a drink in YEARS, it seems. parched. AND, I am very, very fond of grape soda.
There's a store in the neighborhood that has always sold grape soda and I've spent much of my time hanging out there drinking down the fizzy goodness.
I wander into the store, find a new manager, and when I ask for a grape soda, he hands me lemon-lime. WTF? I spend a lot of time explaining that this is NOT grape and why and how much I really, really want my grape soder. The manager yawns. "We've got lemon-lime. Everybody likes lemon-lime. Do you want it or not?"
I hold out for as long as I can stand it, but let's be honest, I'm DYING of thirst here! So...I buy the lemon-lime soda and drink it down, grimacing most of the way.
The flavor is totally different than what I'm used to, but it is fresh bubbly soda and it does help with the thirst. After that first bottle, all I can say for sure is that it is not grape, and that it does quench the awful thirsties.
I can't even tell you that much about what the flavor is like or whether or not I genuinely like lemon-lime. I'll have to buy and drink a second bottle for that.
Now that I know it's not grape and have gotten that out of my system, I'm just about ready to give the lemonie-limishness a fair sample.
Mmm. Tastey metaphor. No?
Damn. Now I'm thirsty again. I'm not sure that I can wait till the weekend to go back for that second bottle. Man, the old gang are so going to razz me about this...
Look, it can be that the film simply didn't click for some fans and that's the end of it. That's fine. It was bound to happen. Case closed, there.
The fans who were predisposed to dislike the movie and reject it outright for "not being Star Trek" are the interesting ones. And, I think part of the problem there is they are holding this movie to a standard that over the years Trek seldom met, even when it was good. The quality of Trek has been all over the place. Sometimes there was true pathos. Other times, just corn-ball moralizing. Sometimes the story was a good comic romp ("The Trouble with Tribbles"
So, what the hell is "the feel" of Trek? There isn't one other than an archtype created mostly out of a conceited Trek mythos about its qualities, not Trek reality. The realistic Trek spectrum is very wide. How can't there be room for ST09 within it? How can "Day of the Dove" fit in and "feel" like Trek, and ST09 doesn't?
Excellent points. I also prefer the idea of "mythos" over "canon." I think people need to sit down and watch some TOS before trying to damn something as "not Star Trek."
I think you're onto something there. And I can understand that to a degree. The new ST movie is an exciting new beginning, but it also, undeniably, marks an ending as well. The whole cycle of TNG/DS9/VOY tv series and movies has come to an end after a long, good run and people are entitled to mourn that. Fans who invested years of their lives in that timeline would have prefered to see it continue. And some of them, perhaps unfairly, resent the new movie for taking its place.
It's almost like we're dealing with the classic stages of grief here.
Denial: "This isn't really STAR TREK!"
Anger: "Damn you, J.J. Abrams! And those TRANSFORMERS guys, too!"
Bargaining: "Okay, I'll tolerate the new movie, but ONLY if they bring back Vulcan in the next film!"
Etc. (I don't have time to look up all the stages!)
Let's hope our grieving brethren finally make it to Acceptance.
I'm seriously considering skipping to the "I'm going get as drunk as my liver will allow at the Wake!" stage. I figure I'll either wake up with a helluva hangover and then drag myself back to some semblence of life, or they'll bury me with my Deceased.
Or, maybe I'll just go off to the next Con I can manage and see if I can scrounge up some consolation-sex...
Life. It's not always pretty, but it tends to be persistent.
Or, maybe I'll just go off to the next Con I can manage and see if I can scrounge up some consolation-sex...
Life. It's not always pretty, but it tends to be persistent.
Me too I await the next installment....that is like make it or break it for me.
No I was not moved at all with the Kirk birth/death scene. I wish I could say I was because I know I'm like the only one who feels this way but............. I thought it was kinda corny to tell you the truth. Especially the part with the shuttlecraft being "forcefully propelled" out the Kelvin and that is the exact moment that Kirk is "forcefully propelled" from his mamma's womb.....
Maybe the next time they'll include the Kirk conception scene and we'll get to see a train go thru a tunnel. Now I'm no filmmaker but even that shit is like filmmaking 101...so I was worried about the rest of the movie after seeing that.....I'm happy that my fears were not realized. I thought I'd be very upset with the Vulcan/Amanda thing and maybe I would of but I felt -- which again I realize I'm the minority in this ...I felt that it was very rushed...too rushed...so no I didn't really care.
I agree that it quite successfully introduced (or reintroduced) us/movie going public to the TOS crew and how truly awesome they can be and are.
And what exactly don't I "get".... I said some fans had a high standard....such a high standard as a matter of fact that this movie didn't reach it....not the case for everybody and every fan. This is all subjective anyway because you have high standards and you think DS9 wasn't all that but many others who also possess high standards have said it's quite good.
i have i standards for trek. watched first run tos as a kid and thought the new movie had a lot of soul and heart.
different strokes different folks and not some of us dont
have as high standards as others.
interestingly enough one thing the new movie has done at least with
some people i know has bought them back into the fold.
they have rediscovered their love of trek due to this.
because they see the true elements of star trek in the film.
Well I'm glad to see you don't have high standards....LOL LOL...that helps get you laid on a Saturday Night. Just kidding!!
I could see that people would get reinvigorated about Trek because of the movie...that is a good thing...
It's true. I'm a Star Trek fan and this growing older thing is starting to scare me.
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