This is a theme that completely contradicts the thematic heart of Trek. Trek is always about fighting destiny and choosing free will, not that we are fated to be something.
What's the Big Lesson in STXI?
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This is a theme that completely contradicts the thematic heart of Trek. Trek is always about fighting destiny and choosing free will, not that we are fated to be something.
Good Star Trek has always just been good storytelling. Most of Trek's maundering about "the human condition" is just pabulum, the spoon-feeding of simplistic and half-baked "ideas" to the easily-impressed.
I guess a shitty movie will also be loved by pretty much every critic because "it's pretty".
I'm not mad. It's all of YOU who are crazy! Press the red button.
It's a good thing we have these superior intellects to explain to us how benighted we are.
I agree with you, theenglish, even though I'm very new to Star Trek; just in my limited experience, it does seem that free will is something the story has often promoted.
I should clarify that I don't think it's stripped away entirely in the new movie, but just that fate is given more of a role than I'm accustomed to seeing. Do you think it would likewise be contradictory to strike a balance between the two rather than one seeming to have more precedence than the other?
I should clarify that I don't think it's stripped away entirely in the new movie, but just that fate is given more of a role than I'm accustomed to seeing. Do you think it would likewise be contradictory to strike a balance between the two rather than one seeming to have more precedence than the other?
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Well, fate and one Mr. Spock.
J.
J.
Depends on how you look at it, I suppose. For me, this new Kirk exercised free will in breaking from the rut he'd got into and leaving everything behind to join Starfleet. That was his choice.
The latest Trek is about friendship and destiny, how both are intertwined.
I'm amazed by the lack of imagination of some Trek fans. It's like everything has to be spelled out in black and white, like they've got the deductive reasoning of toddlers.
Did Star Trek, any Star Trek, inspire your imagination, or did you just sit back and wait for someone to tell you how the guns went peyow?
Joe, coot
I'm amazed by the lack of imagination of some Trek fans. It's like everything has to be spelled out in black and white, like they've got the deductive reasoning of toddlers.
Did Star Trek, any Star Trek, inspire your imagination, or did you just sit back and wait for someone to tell you how the guns went peyow?
Joe, coot
The importance of friendship is definitely there, but is that enough to make it comparable to other good Trek stories?
Amok Time, for example, also dealt with the need to accept friendship or be a friend even when you are not wanted AND about the struggle between destiny and free will, (It also dealt with Kirk's handling of a no-win situation.) but to me it seemed weightier somehow.
I don't find the "destiny" idea very compelling, but what about the theme of coping with and overcoming tragedy and loss? It's actually fairly well-developed, though not with the intensity of, say, the theme of confronting mortality in TWOK, that I will grant you.
I think that in this area the lack of screen time given to Nero really hurts, since his tragedy-inspired madness is an important counterpoint, but Spock Prime, Spock, Nero and Kirk all have to confront loss, and their varying reactions make up something I think I would definitely have to call a theme, and it is an enduring part of the human condition.
Good point. It's easy to overlook Nero's motive because of the magnitude of the atrocities he commits, but he is driven by grief similar to what he forces upon Spock. It makes me think of Spock toward the end of the movie, questioning Kirk's decision to extend an offering of humanity to Nero. In that moment, Spock didn't take the high road either.
Right, to break down the main reactions to tragedy the film presents...
Nero: lust for revenge, visiting on others the grief he feels.
Spock Prime: Working to repair and redress the tragedy he has inadvertently helped bring about, at least in some small measure.
Spock: At first he represses his grief, but grows to embrace it and with it his love for Uhura.
Kirk: At first he runs from the tragic loss of his father, but then he follows in his father's footsteps, and faces his fear.
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There is plenty to find in the new movie. You just need to look. Unlike some episodes in the various series', you don't need to be bashed over the head to get the messages.
J.
J.
But he made that decision early on and, it seemed, easily; the challenges he faced subsequently were easy as he had to have the right answers because he was a protagonist.
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And here I thought he did it because Spock Prime told him to...
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He didn't have to like or respect Spock. He didn't have to like or respect this old Vulcan who was Spock Prime. He could have succumbed to his ignorance, to his own viewpoint and didn't. He overcame it.
J.
But Kirk does have to learn to trust Spock (the guy who is trying to get him kicked out of Starfleet); they do begin to bond during the away mission.