Is Fajo an ugly Jewish Stereotype?
- Thread starter Gary Sebben
- Start date
Well, I think one place Trek falls into subtle shades of racism is with its one note aliens. If we were to say of different ethnicities "All Asians do math well" or "All Latinos are fiery and ill tempered" we would be (hopefully) looked at as ignorant jerks.
However, Starfleet people walk around spouting things like "All Medusans are good navigators", "All Klingons like killing", "All Bajorans are spiritual", "All Ferengi are greedy". If this was true these species would never get anywhere because not everyone in a society can have the same job. Star Trek VI turned this trope on its head by framing the one note alien lines as actually racist and portraying a variety of Klingons to offset them. Sometimes a Ferengi will show up that's not greedy, but he's often the "exception that proves the rule" or "the credit to his race".
Look at the episode in it's historical context. This 1990 episode was post the 1987 crash/Recession that lasted into the early 90s - at this time here, interest rates on mortgages n(let alone credit cards) were hitting 17 & 18% -people were loosing their homes, their jobs etc.
A
Amaris
Guest
Ah, but Star Trek tended to fight it's own stereotypes. Sometimes I think they were used as examples to be proven wrong. Such as "All Klingons like killing". Worf as a prime example, does not like to kill for killing's sake. He's an honorable man who only kills if absolutely necessary. "All Ferengi are greedy" isn't always the case, as we find with Nog, and many times with Rom. Even Quark has his moments.
J.
J.
This is where we need to be mindful of the many distinctions between reality and fiction. Take Kirk, Spock and Bones, for example. They are not as complex as actual people. Is this an insult to actual people? No, we need to recognize that they are archetypes, and that collectively they allow Star Trek to explore various permutations of the human soul.
Now take the Ferengi, the Romulans and the Klingons. They are not as complex as the human race. Is this an insult to the human race, or to various ethnicities within the human race? No, we need to recognize that these various fictional alien races are archetypes, and that collectively they allow Star Trek to explore various permutations of human society.
I hope that makes sense
But in Worf's case he's raised by humans so he has their values. He can only try to be "Klingon" but he never manages to fit in. I think later in DS9 he starts becoming more of a one note Klingon.
Nog and Rom are the "credits to their races". They are respectable because they take on human values and are looked down on by other Ferengi. It's more like they've evolved above their "race". But otherwise, if you see a Ferengi you know he's going to be sniveling and greedy.
Flemm said:
I understand the limitations of fiction and the one hour drama and you are right that not every alien of the week can be a fleshed out character, but at the same time the language of racism is there. Like I said, humans very leisurely say things like "all X do Y" or "Could you imagine an X doing Z? Unthinkable!"
Honestly, I'm starting to wonder myself. Not civil? Oh, I have. But you're right, it was fun while it lasted, but I think we've both have beaten this dead horse too much.
Yeah, the penny pinching jew is an old joke too. Jews have a tendency to be cheap, you know. And poison wells. It's hilarious. "The Most Toys" wasn't the first one to bring it up and it won't be the last. You have no idea how wrong and hypocritical you are. It's very interesting to witness.[/QUOTE]
What is it with you and bringing up the godawful stereotypes? You're the only harping on them and constantly referencing them. I seriously doubt a franchise as ethnically diverse as Trek would lower itself to such dephs as to rely on stereotypes. Roddenberry's vision of the future is something we can all agree with!
My post did not reference the limitations of fiction, but rather one of the devices being used: creating archetypes that allow for an exploration of complex ideas, but only when taken together. Being able to deal with archetypes and stylized creations is not a weakness of fiction, but one of its strengths
As to the "language of racism," we are really talking about two different uses of the word "race." Human beings are all one species (which is what is being refered to by the expression "alien race" in Star Trek, really alien species). Racism consists in attributing certain qualities or limitations (unsually negative ones) to certain members of the human species based on superficial or artificial differences.
However, taken as a whole, the human species certainly has some identifying characteristics and broad tendencies. Human beings tend to be jealous for example. That is not a racist remark.
Last edited:
A
Amaris
Guest
I thought you might say that. I can't really rebut, but to me Worf was ultra Klingon and was multifaceted. Rom and Nog were still Ferengi, just reasonable Ferengi, at least by Ferengi standards, and they were nuanced as well.
J.
Gary Sebben:
If you see it, then that's fine. I guess the main point is for some reason, the majority of the posters here don't agree with your interpretation. If it's there, it's deep down, buried underneath Fajo's main character, that of an acquisitive mad collector willing to dehumanize Data and the other living portions of his collection. And it's also a commentary on how far Data can be pushed before he decides to take a life.
As others have said, the Ferengi can more appropriately claim to represent ugly stereotypes about Jews -- cheaters, big noses and ears, etc. And as I recall, the initial comparison was to Yankee Traders in the ep that introduced them, The Last Outpost.
No offense, bud, but most of us just don't see it.
Red Ranger
If you see it, then that's fine. I guess the main point is for some reason, the majority of the posters here don't agree with your interpretation. If it's there, it's deep down, buried underneath Fajo's main character, that of an acquisitive mad collector willing to dehumanize Data and the other living portions of his collection. And it's also a commentary on how far Data can be pushed before he decides to take a life.
As others have said, the Ferengi can more appropriately claim to represent ugly stereotypes about Jews -- cheaters, big noses and ears, etc. And as I recall, the initial comparison was to Yankee Traders in the ep that introduced them, The Last Outpost.
No offense, bud, but most of us just don't see it.
Red Ranger
Watching the episode now and not really seeing it. Though the part where he tells Data that he'd rather see him walk around naked, that raised an eyebrow.
Now, a homoerotic connection between Fajo's interest in Data? That I can see.
A
Amaris
Guest
I just think Fajo was possessive to the point of obsession. That whole "if I can't have you no one will!" line of thought, which would include negating any rights Data would have as a sentient being.
J.
J.
Rather than call the show insensitive to race, which it is not, considering the very first series directly challenged racial norms of the times, and has many times established its values as quite the opposite, Star Trek was at times simplistic in its depictions of aliens - for the sake of storytelling.
No aliens, however, represent any one particular race in real life - but rather, cultures extrapolated from various human principles or lifestyles. It's only natural to have the occasional similar reference point - but the rest can be attributed to the needs of story; ie, conflict, alien antagonists, recognizable and affordable design. The show is not called Federation of the Happy People Who All Got Along. And the show most certainly is not some backhanded attempt to foster racism. One couldn't cherry pick instances of stereotype and say that describes the whole.
And a show that bends over backward to describe alien cultures in all their diversity, so as to show equanimity, sounds kind of boring. Like shows that depend on long story arcs, if you miss an episode you don't know what the heck is going on. Good business? That's another thread. But if a show wants to examine the cultural diversity of alien races, that's fine; but it misses the basic premise of the humans defining their own values and hence, themselves.
No aliens, however, represent any one particular race in real life - but rather, cultures extrapolated from various human principles or lifestyles. It's only natural to have the occasional similar reference point - but the rest can be attributed to the needs of story; ie, conflict, alien antagonists, recognizable and affordable design. The show is not called Federation of the Happy People Who All Got Along. And the show most certainly is not some backhanded attempt to foster racism. One couldn't cherry pick instances of stereotype and say that describes the whole.
And a show that bends over backward to describe alien cultures in all their diversity, so as to show equanimity, sounds kind of boring. Like shows that depend on long story arcs, if you miss an episode you don't know what the heck is going on. Good business? That's another thread. But if a show wants to examine the cultural diversity of alien races, that's fine; but it misses the basic premise of the humans defining their own values and hence, themselves.
I have heard that before, but I think they predate even Judaism. There could easily be some overlapping, but the idea that dwarves are based on Jewish stereotypes doesn't seem likely to me.
A
Amaris
Guest
^ That never made sense to me, either. Actually, gnomes and dwarves sound more like something the Irish would come up with. And that's me. 
J.
J.
A
Amaris
Guest
I think of Irish elves. Irish elves with fair skin, graceful pointed ears, beautiful green eyes and hair of red fire...
I've got to go...
J.
I've got to go...
J.
It's been a long time since I watched the ep, so I found it on YouTube. One of the users I subscribe to has been posting old TNG eps, and just a few days ago, posted this gem. I can see a little more clearly why the OP could get that impression -- that funny hat does look a bit like a yarmulke. So you could kind of make the OP's argument. But I still don't see it as much as the OP does. Still, it's understandable! -- RR