Roads not traveled....

[Warped9]

One more companion thread.

NBC didn't go with The Cage version of Star Trek. Neither did Paramount go with Phase II.

Were either of these roads truly viable? If so then what elements would had to have been there or what changes needed for either of them to have worked?

Were there any other paths they could have gone down other than the ones we're already familiar with?

 

[Wingsley]

Jeffrey Hunter was a great actor. He would've made a great star for the show. People have theorized that the personality he projected in the pilot would've have had the enduring qualities that Shatner's Kirk did in TOS. I would say that if The Original Series had been "Cage"-based (COS?) it would've wound up looking as different from "The Cage" as TOS was different from "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Who knows, maybe the studio would've snagged Sally Kellerman or Gary Lockwood for recurring roles in a COS.

TNG and DS9, etc. gave us all the proof we need that STAR TREK can thrive without the TOS cast. And Nimoy and Barrett would've likely been on board for COS anyway...

 

[Botany Bay]

To me, the real magic elements of TOS were :

1)the trio of Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley and the way they just complemented each other perfectly,

and 2) the brilliance of Coon's and Fontana's scripts.

Could point 2 have lifted a Hunter/Barrett/Nimoy type show? Maybe, but I have my doubts.

I think the NBC-demanded changes were pretty spot on, but there's no way I would have complained if Yeoman Colt had suvived into the ongoing series

TNG and DS9, etc. gave us all the proof we need that STAR TREK can thrive without the TOS cast.

Repectfully disagree with this - TNG and DS9 gave us all the proof we need that Star Trek cannot thrive without the TOS cast. That's why we're back to square one now.

 

[Tuxedo Dragon]

To me, the real magic elements of TOS were :

1)the trio of Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley and the way they just complemented each other perfectly,

and 2) the brilliance of Coon's and Fontana's scripts.

Could point 2 have lifted a Hunter/Barrett/Nimoy type show? Maybe, but I have my doubts.

I think the NBC-demanded changes were pretty spot on, but there's no way I would have complained if Yeoman Colt had suvived into the ongoing series

TNG and DS9, etc. gave us all the proof we need that STAR TREK can thrive without the TOS cast.

Repectfully disagree with this - TNG and DS9 gave us all the proof we need that Star Trek cannot thrive without the TOS cast. That's why we're back to square one now.

Actually, TNG was a huge success. The franchise just became watered down by the later spin offs. And the TNG Movies tapered off. The series though was hugely successul. First Contact did well at the box office.

I don't know if I would go as far to say that a Caged version of Star Trek would be as successful as TOS. On the contrary, Star Trek might not be what it is today without the reworking.

 

[Maurice]

This topic has come up before, and, as I've cited before, while a lot of people here think Hunter's Pike would've been a great Captain, in the aftermath of "The Cage" not everyone as Desilu was so certain, as this quote from Bob Justman indicates:

BOB: So when I heard that Bill would be the new captain of the Enterprise, I was pleased. I knew he would bring a much-needed energy to the role, an energy we hadn't gotten from Jeff Hunter.

Inside Star Trek, Pages 71-72.
​

I tend to agree. I found Hunter's Pike uncharismatic. Shatner's turn as Kirk in the second pilot is instantly engaging, which is what you need from a leading man.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

Sadly, I suspect you are right. The Cage is a great work (one of my top favourite Trek episodes) but I'm not sure how the series would have fared - I would love to see it though.

 

[Kelso]

I would have liked to see Yeoman Rand continue on as a major character on the show and a continuation of the Spock/Uhura flirtation that we got in The Man Trap and Charlie X.

 

[Warped9]

I'd like to offer the observation that NBC rejected "The Cage's" execution yet not Roddenberry's concept. They evidently saw potential worth exploring. NBC gave Roddenberry and Desilu a second chance to refine their ideas. One could see "The Cage" as a "first draft" that was good, but recogniozed that it could be better.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

This topic has come up before, and, as I've cited before, while a lot of people here think Hunter's Pike would've been a great Captain, in the aftermath of "The Cage" not everyone as Desilu was so certain, as this quote from Bob Justman indicates:

BOB: So when I heard that Bill would be the new captain of the Enterprise, I was pleased. I knew he would bring a much-needed energy to the role, an energy we hadn't gotten from Jeff Hunter.

Inside Star Trek, Pages 71-72.
​

I tend to agree. I found Hunter's Pike uncharismatic. Shatner's turn as Kirk in the second pilot is instantly engaging, which is what you need from a leading man.

Fo'sho. Hunter's Pike was an emotionally unavailable character much like his first officer. If Hunter had continued along with Barrett's Number One, then Spock may have been more emotional to balance out the other two.

I think Shatner made some good choices in his portrayal of Kirk. He thought Kirk was too serious and brought some much needed humor to the good captain.

Moreover, I never felt Barrett was up to task for what would've been the female lead of the series. The role didn't suit her or her acting abilities. NBC and Desilu agreed. They also didn't like the fact that Roddenberry was sleeping with her. As has been cited before, Number One wasn't rejected because no one could see a woman in command but because of the actress playing her.

It's too bad that for all his lip service about a progressive and inclusive future, Roddenberry dropped a character that had potential because it couldn't be played by his then-mistress. He also had a chance to correct NBC's "shortsightedness" with TNG but choose to create Commander Re-Kirk, um Riker, instead of a strong female first officer.

But I must say as Lwaxana Troi, Barrett was fantastic. A better fit role for her.

 

[Warped9]

When I look at "The Cage" I can see where it really just needs to be tweaked rather than changed wholesale.

The only performer I think was lacking was Majel Barrett. I just don't think she suited the role. I also thought Jose Tyler was bland, but it was early in the game.

The episode also didn't really make an effort to depict racial diversity like TOS did, but that still could have come later.

I felt John Hoyt was perhaps a bit too old, but Boyce could have stayed for a season and then retired I suppose.

 

[Cakes488]

I would have liked to see Yeoman Rand continue on as a major character on the show and a continuation of the Spock/Uhura flirtation that we got in The Man Trap and Charlie X.

You know I just saw man trap a few days ago...and it's a real stretch calling that banter between them flirting. Even if Uhura is flirting with Spock..which she's not, she's just making conversation because she's sick of sitting at the comm. console...but even if she is Spock is not interested in any way shape or form...he can't even carry on a social convo let alone flirt!

 

[MANT!]

well talk about a road not taken..

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/bst/article/50875.html

As a recently-discovered memo from Philip Mayer, director of Special programming for Paramount, shows, the original plans for a proposed animated series were by Don Christensen. His "Concept Paper" and Filmation art roughs and sketches showed the ideas for a training ship called "Excalibur," on which versions of the familiar Enterprise crew would train their teenage counterparts. Meant to be educational as well as entertaining, the proposed series would have featured six of the seven lead cast members returning..plus five multi-racial children (Steve, Bob, Chris, Tun-Tun, Stormy, and Ploof).

Kiddie Trek....I've even seen some artwork for the above concept somewhere on the net..but can't locate it now...

 

[Anticitizen]

This topic has come up before, and, as I've cited before, while a lot of people here think Hunter's Pike would've been a great Captain, in the aftermath of "The Cage" not everyone as Desilu was so certain, as this quote from Bob Justman indicates:

BOB: So when I heard that Bill would be the new captain of the Enterprise, I was pleased. I knew he would bring a much-needed energy to the role, an energy we hadn't gotten from Jeff Hunter.

Inside Star Trek, Pages 71-72.
​

I tend to agree. I found Hunter's Pike uncharismatic. Shatner's turn as Kirk in the second pilot is instantly engaging, which is what you need from a leading man.

You know, I don't recall Captain Pike ever even cracking a smile in The Cage.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

well talk about a road not taken..

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/bst/article/50875.html

As a recently-discovered memo from Philip Mayer, director of Special programming for Paramount, shows, the original plans for a proposed animated series were by Don Christensen. His "Concept Paper" and Filmation art roughs and sketches showed the ideas for a training ship called "Excalibur," on which versions of the familiar Enterprise crew would train their teenage counterparts. Meant to be educational as well as entertaining, the proposed series would have featured six of the seven lead cast members returning..plus five multi-racial children (Steve, Bob, Chris, Tun-Tun, Stormy, and Ploof).

Kiddie Trek....I've even seen some artwork for the above concept somewhere on the net..but can't locate it now...

The concept artwork appears in The Art of Star Trek book. It shows the crew and their teen-aged counterparts.

 

[MANT!]

Knew if I searched hard enough...

Yes, TAS could have been the above...
a "relevant" Kids show with lessons in each and every episode..

Like Sealab 2020...IN SPACE!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealab_2020


Damn glad TAS became a 4th season of the show we know and love instead..

 

[Botany Bay]

Oh god, that looks terrible.

Thanks for putting it up though!

No Scotty jnr. guess he really did spend all his time reading those technical journals!

 

[Red Ranger]

Well, if they had retained Hunter as Pike, the show would've still been reworked the way it became. The writers simply would have made Pike and Bones friends, and the trio would be Pike/Spock/McCoy. All the other casting likely would've been made. And Pike would've been mellowed the way they did Picard in TNG, and he would've taken on more quallities we know as Kirk-like, only we'd think of them as Pike-like if we grew up with a Captain Pike TOS! -- RR

 

[Warped9]

well talk about a road not taken..

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/bst/article/50875.html

As a recently-discovered memo from Philip Mayer, director of Special programming for Paramount, shows, the original plans for a proposed animated series were by Don Christensen. His "Concept Paper" and Filmation art roughs and sketches showed the ideas for a training ship called "Excalibur," on which versions of the familiar Enterprise crew would train their teenage counterparts. Meant to be educational as well as entertaining, the proposed series would have featured six of the seven lead cast members returning..plus five multi-racial children (Steve, Bob, Chris, Tun-Tun, Stormy, and Ploof).

Kiddie Trek....I've even seen some artwork for the above concept somewhere on the net..but can't locate it now...

Yeesh! Actually I think I recall hearing something about this a very long time ago.

Well, some things never die. This was like Bennett always wanting to do Starfleet Academy. And then we finally get Trek XI.



What if NBC had accepted Star Trek strictly on the basis of the initial pilot episode? What if “The Cage” had been the template for the new series?

Assuming TOS’ third season had evolved differently. What if Gene Roddenberry, Gene Coon and others could have stayed with the series? What could have been in store for a different third season and even a fourth season?

What if Filmation had taken the animated series more seriously in terms of writing and animation? And what if NBC had been bolder and scheduled the show for primetime?

With or without a new independent network what if Paramount had committed to its original plan and launched the Phase II series.

 

[RAMA]

Three words: Giant mutant star-goat!

RAMA

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

What if Filmation had taken the animated series more seriously in terms of writing and animation? And what if NBC had been bolder and scheduled the show for primetime?

Although it's very unlikely that TAS would become the longest running animation show, more episodes would be nice, perhaps a trip to Cait or Edos.