STIII - What's wrong with it?

[Anticitizen]

I recently watched all the TOS movies with my girlfriend (her first time), and her only complaint was that it was the most depressing of the movies. I'm inclined to agree, I feel a bit more 'down' after watching it than I do the others. Kirk's son dying, the Enterprise being destroyed, Kirk and crew being reduced to criminals, etc. It's not the 'feel-good' Trek.

 

[DonIago]

No good feelings about Spock being back?

 

[Grant]

^^No, but Spock's resurection did give me a great sense of invalidation & trivialisation of TWOK.

"Oh wow, screw Saavik's portrayel in TWOK and David & Carol and the ship---we gotta get Spock back! Nothing else matters. Make buffonns out of all of starfleet, get a comedic actor to play a Klingon heavy--just give us our Spock back!!"

 

[Anticitizen]

No good feelings about Spock being back?

Yes, Spock's her favorite character, but let's face it - given the title of the movie, his return wasn't exactly a surprise!

 

[Grant]

His return was a foregone conclusion as soon as I saw him mind meld with McCoy.

They wouldn't have included that for any other reason than making Spock the focus of the next movie.
They weren't going to make a movie that involved the mystery of that mind-meld and end it with---"Oh yeah, but he's still dead."

 

[DonIago]

Well, given that the movie was called The Search for Spock, it's safe to say it was about the journey, not about the destination.

 

[Mysterion]

Other than the fact that it totally negates all the dramatic import of TWoK? Probably nothing.

 

[Gary Sebben]

Other than the fact that it totally negates all the dramatic import of TWoK? Probably nothing.

I think considering it shouldn't have been Spock, but some engineering grunt that Scotty or Kirk should have had the balls to send into the reactor room in full rad garb in order to save 40 people, Spock's death is more of a statement on Kirk's incompetence than a serious, dramatic sacrifice.

Anyone understand why the the radiation that made Scotty take the main engines offline disappeared when the engines were put back online? Spock's death was contrived.

 

[Trevacious]

Anyone understand why the the radiation that made Scotty take the main engines offline disappeared when the engines were put back online? Spock's death was contrived.

The radiation remained, which is why Kirk couldn't run in there and haul him out.

I think considering it shouldn't have been Spock, but some engineering grunt that Scotty or Kirk should have had the balls to send into the reactor room in full rad garb in order to save 40 people

I don't see any one of them sending some trainee kid in there to die. They'd already lost one that day. Also, who can we expect to be the best-qualified to make repairs quickly enough to make the difference, other than Scott or Spock? And Scott was incapacitated when Spock arrived. That made the decision pretty simple for Spock.

I also suspect that Spock's half-Vulcan physiology is what allowed him to survive long enough to do the job. Which in itself is classic Trek.

(Spock's copper-based blood, Spock's extra eyelids, Spock's mental discipline...)

Scott: Spock! Get out of there! Spooock! Look, I've got a disposable grunt right here! Collins! Get in there and save the ship! Don't you look at me like that...!

 

[Myasishchev]

^Agree. Isn't there some TOS episode where Spock's shown as far less vulnerable to ionizing radiation? A human grunt might have just keeled over.

 

[Brady]

The problem is it's too much an episode, not as much of a movie. Without being a trekkie, you can't appreciate the story, you won't care for the "hero" (Spock).

WOK presents Khan as the bad guy, being stranded by Kirk resolting in his wife's death. Anybody that doesn't know anything about Trek can still relate to Khan being the bad guy and enjoy the storie.

But SFP requires you to know who Spock his. Just seing the short video from the end of WOK isn't sufficient for you to understand the logic of his sacrifice and why he's such a dear departed friend.

Plus, the whole story is ultimately just a means of reviving the character and not as much a story in itself.

I think this is sort of petty. It is a direct sequel. Anyone who sees any sequel before seeing the first film is going to miss out on some things.

Petty? Hardly the word that characterizes a fair criticism of a film that doesn't function well as a stand-alone. TSFS is basically an "UNDO" Control-Z to Spock's Death.

None of the movies explain who any of the major characters are. No backstory for Kirk, Sulu, Chekov, NONE of them in Search for Spock. So why focus on the lack thereof for Spock? Why does that make it a bad movie? That's ridiculous. If it is bad because of that then all of them are bad because none of them give bigtime introductions of the main characters who everyone already knows.

 

[ManaByte]

Theres nothing wrong with Search for Spock. It focuses on the friendships between the characters, and we even get a classic TOS Kirk 60's TV style fight to end it.

And if "Jim... Your name is Jim." doesn't put a Galaxy class-sized smile on your face, turn in your jacket because you aren't a Star Trek fan.

 

[adamisme]

i thought Search for Spock was the weakest of the Trilogy of films, but it had great moments and that made it a great film for me. From the return to Spacedock at the beginning with everyone standing as the Enterprise entering, from the stealing of the Enterprise, the whole bit from Springing McCoy to exiting Spacedock were brilliant and then the destruction of the Enterprise as someone quoted above the lines used were great, I mean for Kirk the Enterprise was his partner and he'd destroyed her to save his and other lives. But yeah kick ass moments but weaker of the trilogy of films

 

[Gary Sebben]

The radiation remained, which is why Kirk couldn't run in there and haul him out.

Actually, it wasn't there. Before Spock puts the engines back on line Scotty is passing out from radiation. The whole of engineering is covered in it. After Spock put the mains online the radiation is only confined to the chamber room. So where did it go and why did scotty have to disconnect the perfectly fine engines if the radiation was only a problem in that one, sealed off area?

I don't see any one of them sending some trainee kid in there to die. They'd already lost one that day. Also, who can we expect to be the best-qualified to make repairs quickly enough to make the difference, other than Scott or Spock? And Scott was incapacitated when Spock arrived. That made the decision pretty simple for Spock.

Yeah, Scotty is out cold, and just happens the wake up as someone else starts doing his job, wink wink.

The point here is, someone in engineering should have done the job. 1 grunt or 20. That's still less than 400 other people. Kirk just sitting there and waiting for death, hoping his crew would step up was irresponsible. Seems to me loosing a few more cadets is worth loosing a whole ship full of them.

 

[M.Robison]

The radiation remained, which is why Kirk couldn't run in there and haul him out.

Actually, it wasn't there. Before Spock puts the engines back on line Scotty is passing out from radiation. The whole of engineering is covered in it. After Spock put the mains online the radiation is only confined to the chamber room. So where did it go and why did scotty have to disconnect the perfectly fine engines if the radiation was only a problem in that one, sealed off area?

I don't see any one of them sending some trainee kid in there to die. They'd already lost one that day. Also, who can we expect to be the best-qualified to make repairs quickly enough to make the difference, other than Scott or Spock? And Scott was incapacitated when Spock arrived. That made the decision pretty simple for Spock.

Yeah, Scotty is out cold, and just happens the wake up as someone else starts doing his job, wink wink.

The point here is, someone in engineering should have done the job. 1 grunt or 20. That's still less than 400 other people. Kirk just sitting there and waiting for death, hoping his crew would step up was irresponsible. Seems to me loosing a few more cadets is worth loosing a whole ship full of them.

^ Totally agreed there, I still, after seeing TSFS a gazillion times,
still cannot put a point on the whole "I am the only one who can fix this" issue. This is my only problem with the film, aside from the pacing, as before stated.

 

[Gary Sebben]

You know, if they weren't so dead set on killing Spock I could almost see this scene turning into a Kirk/McCoy match.

McCoy: Jim, you have to send someone in to get the engines running!
Kirk: Damn it, Bones, I won't send another one of my crew in there to die. We've lost enough children today.
McCoy: If you don't send someone in they'll all die and it'll be on your head, Admiral!
Kirk realizes he's an idiot. Ensign Reed bites it and its his corpse they shoot out the torpedo bay.

 

[M.Robison]

Written exactly like that I hope?

 

[ITL]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so apologies if I repeat something.

I always liked this one, and watch it as much as any other Trek film. I especially like the moment where Kirk decides to go to Genesis during his meeting with his superior - he says nothing, but you can see that switch going on inside his head, A fine, fine bit of acting from Shatner.

And as for the famous line "My God, Bones - what have I done?" - I'd have loved it if there were no more dialog for the rest of the scene (I hate the line that Bones has). Just silence as the Enterprise burns up.

 

[Praetor]

I didn't mind Bones' line, but I definitely think the scene might have had more impact without it.

 

[DonIago]

I hope if anyone ever says anything to me like what Kirk said to McCoy that I come up with something half as good in response.

I found Bones' reply almost poetic. And to leave Kirk hanging at a time like that, when he's just lost his son and is watching his ship burn up in orbit...