I'm kinda glad Singer didn't come back to X-Men

[Captaindemotion]

^ Again, I'm not sure why you think that either. Were General Zod and co, the villains in arguably the most successful and beloved Superman movie Down to Earth? Were Doctor Octopus or the Green Goblin from the first two Spider-Man movies Down To Earth?

WB are forging ahead with a Green Lantern movie, which is hardly going to be in the vein of The Dark Knight. I think they have realised that there is room for the gritty superhero movie (TDK being the obvious and best example) but also for the light-hearted one, set in the none-too-real world.

Look at the success of the latest Star Trek movie or of Iron Man. All were big, fun feelgood spectacles. Not a bit of grit, gloom or gangsterism in sight. An epic, ambitious and fantastic (as in dealing with fantasy) Superman movie could be just as successful if it gets the right tone, director, script - and villain. Be that Doomsday, Darkseid or Braniac. But I'd be surprised if any Superman fans wanted to see the Man of Steel versus Tony Soprano.

 

[exodus]

^ Again, I'm not sure why you think that either. Were General Zod and co, the villains in arguably the most successful and beloved Superman movie Down to Earth? Were Doctor Octopus or the Green Goblin from the first two Spider-Man movies Down To Earth?

WB are forging ahead with a Green Lantern movie, which is hardly going to be in the vein of The Dark Knight. I think they have realised that there is room for the gritty superhero movie (TDK being the obvious and best example) but also for the light-hearted one, set in the none-too-real world.

Look at the success of the latest Star Trek movie or of Iron Man. All were big, fun feelgood spectacles. Not a bit of grit, gloom or gangsterism in sight. An epic, ambitious and fantastic (as in dealing with fantasy) Superman movie could be just as successful if it gets the right tone, director, script - and villain. Be that Doomsday, Darkseid or Braniac. But I'd be surprised if any Superman fans wanted to see the Man of Steel versus Tony Soprano.

Well said.

 

[Anwar]

^ Again, I'm not sure why you think that either. Were General Zod and co, the villains in arguably the most successful and beloved Superman movie Down to Earth? Were Doctor Octopus or the Green Goblin from the first two Spider-Man movies Down To Earth?

Zod and co were down-to-Earth since aside from their first scene on Krypton and Zod's grudge against the House of El nothing was really explored of them being aliens. You could make all three of them augmented humans and it wouldn't affect the plot, notice how the NORMAL HUMAN Lex Luthor was more of a villain than any of them?

Green Goblin and Octopus were both very much down to Earth, as they were just humans using technology. Sandman and Venom were the fantastic, and both of them were derided for that very reason.

WB are forging ahead with a Green Lantern movie, which is hardly going to be in the vein of The Dark Knight. I think they have realised that there is room for the gritty superhero movie (TDK being the obvious and best example) but also for the light-hearted one, set in the none-too-real world.

They'll find a way of confining GL to Earth and making it some minimalist "drama", just you wait and see.

Look at the success of the latest Star Trek movie or of Iron Man. All were big, fun feelgood spectacles. Not a bit of grit, gloom or gangsterism in sight.

Trek always had the "space epic" thing to begin with so no one was going to change that. Iron Man was also very down to Earth and likely we'll never see anything as cool as the Armor Wars as a movie.

An epic, ambitious and fantastic (as in dealing with fantasy) Superman movie could be just as successful if it gets the right tone, director, script - and villain. Be that Doomsday, Darkseid or Braniac. But I'd be surprised if any Superman fans wanted to see the Man of Steel versus Tony Soprano.

They'll complain there's no drama in having him fight a monster (Doomsday), it'll be too over-the-top if he fought off a space invasion (Darkseid), or a Killer Robot (too silly). That's why Lex Luthor (normal human crime genius) was a bigger villain in SM2 than Zod was.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Well, as I lack your apparent ability to see the future, I'm happy to actually wait for the movie - as yet unmade, unwritten, not in production, not in pre-production, lacking a director, cast, writer or story - before deciding what it's going to be like and how fans are going to respond to it.

 

[Broccoli]

Honestly, a movie about him defending the world from Darkseid or Brainiac would work but no one wants to do that because the audience despises stories that aren't "down to Earth".

Or it could be shit. It is all about how it is done. And where are you getting these broad generalizations on what "people" want and don't want?

Well, it was from Tvtropes wherein they listed how WB is planning on making the Superman reboot be "darker and grittier" like Nolan's Batman series is despite the fact that Nolan's movies aren't superhero movies and a superhero wouldn't work in that kind of environment.

That was like one report from over 6 or 7 months ago (though repeated by many news sites at the time). I wouldn't take much stock in it.

Deadbeat Dad Superman in "Returns".

Not this shit again.

^ Again, I'm not sure why you think that either. Were General Zod and co, the villains in arguably the most successful and beloved Superman movie Down to Earth? Were Doctor Octopus or the Green Goblin from the first two Spider-Man movies Down To Earth?

WB are forging ahead with a Green Lantern movie, which is hardly going to be in the vein of The Dark Knight. I think they have realised that there is room for the gritty superhero movie (TDK being the obvious and best example) but also for the light-hearted one, set in the none-too-real world.

Look at the success of the latest Star Trek movie or of Iron Man. All were big, fun feelgood spectacles. Not a bit of grit, gloom or gangsterism in sight. An epic, ambitious and fantastic (as in dealing with fantasy) Superman movie could be just as successful if it gets the right tone, director, script - and villain. Be that Doomsday, Darkseid or Braniac. But I'd be surprised if any Superman fans wanted to see the Man of Steel versus Tony Soprano.

Well said.

Agreed.

Trek always had the "space epic" thing to begin with so no one was going to change that.

No. No. No. No. I'm calling bull on this.

So what is Trek had the "space epic" thing to begin with? You claim that "people" don't embrace flashy space, over the top stuff. If this was the case, then Trek would have bombed horribly, regardless if Trek had the "space epic" thing to begin with.

Sorry, but Star Trek's performance, box office and critical, defeats your entire argument.

 

[Anwar]

They don't embrace NEW flashy space, over-the-top stuff. Trek had that from it's inception back in the 60s so they knew what they were going in for to begin with, plus the bogged the movie down with down-to-Earth stuff anyways so that drew in other people. The movie had a pre-expected fanbase and audience, whereas Superhero movies don't. Plus Trek is set in the future so that also explains the better reaction to over-the-top stuff. Modern day Superhero films don't have that, meaning you do anything over-the-top in the modern day it's a failure.

As for "how it's done", the only way superhero movies can be done today is by making them anti-superhero meaning "nothing epic". THAT'S "how it's done".

I liked how the Timm 1995 series put the "Superman shouldn't fight Aliens!" people in their place by giving them their stupid "Superman vs the Mob" story...and then turning it into a Alien Invasion story. Suck on THAT anti-epic folks...

 

[Broccoli]

::face palm::

 

[Anwar]

Just wait til we see how they turn GL into a minimalist earthbound "drama". Heck, if it wasn't for Kenneth Branaugh being the Director I'd expect them to turn Thor into a crime story too.

 

[Dream]

Just wait til we see how they turn GL into a minimalist earthbound "drama". Heck, if it wasn't for Kenneth Branaugh being the Director I'd expect them to turn Thor into a crime story too.

Looks like people here already want to start the "NEXT SUPERMAN MOVIE WILL FLOP!!!!" topic already.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I still think a Singer-directed X3 would have been better than what we got, regardless of those people thinking he was too "down-to-earth" of a director for X-Men.

 

[Anwar]

Eh, he'd just have made the Hellfire Club into Magneto's lackeys instead of characters in their own right. Having there be more than two factions of mutants would have ruined his "Revolutionaries vs Peaceful Advocates" thing.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Eh, he'd just have made the Hellfire Club into Magneto's lackeys instead of characters in their own right. Having there be more than two factions of mutants would have ruined his "Revolutionaries vs Peaceful Advocates" thing.

No offense, but does it get old, repeating the same old thing? I mean, you've said a variation of this many times throughout this thread.

 

[Anwar]

It's the truth, no matter how many times it's said or how differently it's said.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ How can something be 'the truth' when we're discussing hypothetical movies that never were or never will be made? I just don't get your complete confidence in asserting as 'facts' something which is clearly just your opinion (legitimate as it may be).

 

[Anwar]

Look at how the movies and story were structured. Singer had a very clear two-sided conflict going on with the Mutants: Magneto's Militants and Xavier's more Peaceful advocations of co-existence. The Hellfire Club are a third faction in this, and their introduction would have messed with what Singer had been going for. Thus if he HAD included them he'd either have sucked everything interesting out of them and maybe make them just random HUMAN businessmen, or he'd just make them Magneto's lackeys. Anything else wouldn't work with his "Only Xavier and Magneto factions" thing.

Common sense, from what he'd done previously.

Given those possibilities, the Hellfire Club would be better off NOT being in his 3rd movie which would make Dark Phoenix sucky as well.

Heck, he'd have made Apocalypse into Magneto's lackey if they'd brought HIM into the movies...

 

[Rowan Sjet]

Anwar, you're (irrationally) basing that off only two movies. There's only so much progression you can make if you want to tell a singular story and make it coherent within approximately 2 hours running time. Besides, there was escalation of factions just between X-Men 1 and X2. In the first movie, Homo-Sapiens were a mere bit player in the fight between Magneto and Xavier's groups. In the second, Stryker's group emerged, human's aided by mind controlled mutants, and they very nearly succeeded in destroying both sides. Another, different faction emerging, with a different spin on things from the ones before it (ie. The Hellfire Club) is what would likely seem to follow.

At this point, I'd just advise you to stop taking the bitter pills and stop moaning about what might (emphasis on the 'might') have been. Because, yes, it would have been better than the X-Men 3 we got.

 

[Anwar]

The Humans we saw in X2 were just the expansion of the two-sided Mutant conflict thing Singer had set up in the first movie. The 1st one established that humans hated the mutants and we focused on the two factions of mutants, the 2nd just showed the human side of the conflict better by making them more overt villains. There would be nothing logical about bringing in a third faction of mutants in the movies and if they were used it just have been criticized that they messed up the two-sided conflict within the Mutant community. Thus the Hellfire Club would just have been Magneto's lackeys or they were the ones in control from behind and Magneto was THEIR lackey, if you don't want to mess Singer's conflict up.

 

[DonIago]

^Just curious, did you predict how Star Trek '09 would pan out with such precision?

 

[Anwar]

Nah, I predicted it would work out great and be well-received as well as make a lot of money. Trek's a different story than Singer/X-Men/Superhero movies.

 

[exodus]

^^Sleep...Yes, sleep. Poppies....lots of poppies...sleep!