Kathryn Janeway - No.20 in the 25 women who shook Sci-Fi!

[Lindley]

^Seriously. Very fun show.

As the first companion of the new series *and* one to actually stuck around longer than the first (ninth) Doctor, the show was briefly seeming to become "The Rose Show". It doesn't seem like that anymore, but the echos of her time continued to shape the Tennant era right up to the end.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sarah-Jane (Number 20 on this list)seemed to win the Who's-the-better-companion Debate she had with Rose during their team up during season two with four harmless words...

"THE LOCH NESS MONSTER!"

 

[VDCNI]

The character of Rose was absolutely crucial in the relaunch of Doctor Who - the first episode was called 'Rose' after all. In the grand tradition of Who companions she provided the POV for the mainly new audience who only had a vague knowledge of the Doctor. However the character also redefined the role of the companion in Doctor Who (and as a result women in general in the show since the companion is almost always a women) making them more of an equal to the Doctor and made it clear that the companions story was every bit as important as the Doctor's.

I'm no big fan of the character and much prefer Donna but Rose was hugely influential in the series - probably the most important female character in Doctor Who ever - and even after having been out of the season for a year or two her return was still a very big deal in Season 4.

 

[Fish1941]

The character of Rose was absolutely crucial in the relaunch of Doctor Who - the first episode was called 'Rose' after all. In the grand tradition of Who companions she provided the POV for the mainly new audience who only had a vague knowledge of the Doctor. However the character also redefined the role of the companion in Doctor Who (and as a result women in general in the show since the companion is almost always a women) making them more of an equal to the Doctor and made it clear that the companions story was every bit as important as the Doctor's.

I'm no big fan of the character and much prefer Donna but Rose was hugely influential in the series - probably the most important female character in Doctor Who ever - and even after having been out of the season for a year or two her return was still a very big deal in Season 4.

Perhaps that is the reason why I despise Rose Tyler so much. That most of the viewers would take to such a shallow and self-involved character. And quite frankly, I'm more of a fan of Martha and Donna.

 

[teya]

Where's Jamie Summers(The Bionic Woman)?

Where's Wilma Dearing(Erin Grey in Buck Rodgers)?

Where's Emma Peel of "The Avengers"?

There wouldn't be a Buffy or Janeway without the inspiration of these women who came first.

Exactly.

 

[Zameaze]

Oh, come on now--No. 1 was Ellen Ripley? Only on some suffragette’s wish list. Sigourney Weaver is a fine actress, but her character in Alien was as one dimensional as Saran Wrap. Ripley would out cuss, out spit, and out fight men twice her size--and there went suspending disbelief.

Now, let's be logical, like Spock: Women evolved to attract men (read: Seven of Nine) not to castrate them (read: Ellen Ripley). Therefore, Seven of Nine is No. 1. And, for showing us a realistic woman in charge, Janeway is somewhere between No. 7 and 9.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seven had no female emotional genderial aspects.

 

[Tachyon]

Sorry to bring the bad news, Zameaze, but the list is not a beauty contest, nor a list of who rocks your boat the most. Seven is not iconic enough to be on that list so she has no business on this list. Uhura and Janeway are the main Trek ladies without a doubt.

I'm not 100% feeling the list myself, but from Trek ladies, the right ones are listed (though I wouldn't have minded if both of them were higher on the list).

 

[exodus]

Sorry to bring the bad news, Zameaze, but the list is not a beauty contest, nor a list of who rocks your boat the most. Seven is not iconic enough to be on that list so she has no business on this list. Uhura and Janeway are the main Trek ladies without a doubt.

I'm not 100% feeling the list myself, but from Trek ladies, the right ones are listed (though I wouldn't have minded if both of them were higher on the list).

Plus, wasn't Weaver nominated for an Academy Award as Ripley for "Aliens"? People tend to only view Ripley as a fighter but overlook the moments she had with Newt.

 

[Zameaze]

Plus, wasn't Weaver nominated for an Academy Award as Ripley for "Aliens"?

As for Sigourney Weaver’s Academy Award nomination, Weaver still today has a voodoo doll of Helen Hunt which she sticks pins in. Some would call this bitchy, but I wouldn’t dare.

 

[JustKate]

What the list says it's trying to do is name the 25 "most important SF & fantasy heroines of all time." So at least in theory, it doesn't matter whether they are positive or negative, beloved or hated, one-dimensional or complicated, Academy Award-winning or not. If they are among the 25 most important, they are supposed to be on that list.

Now I would say some of these don't belong there (Barbarella? you have got to be kidding me), but I'd say Ripley does, even though I agree that her performance in at least the first Alien (I've seen the others but I don't remember them that well) was pretty standard fare for a scifi male hero. For a female hero, though? No, not standard at all. Like it or loathe it, it was in its own kill-the-evil-monster way definitely significant.

 

[Zameaze]

What the list says it's trying to do is name the 25 "most important SF & fantasy heroines of all time." So at least in theory, it doesn't matter whether they are positive or negative, beloved or hated, one-dimensional or complicated, Academy Award-winning or not. If they are among the 25 most important, they are supposed to be on that list.

Now I would say some of these don't belong there (Barbarella? you have got to be kidding me), but I'd say Ripley does, even though I agree that her performance in at least the first Alien (I've seen the others but I don't remember them that well) was pretty standard fare for a scifi male hero. For a female hero, though? No, not standard at all. Like it or loathe it, it was in its own kill-the-evil-monster way definitely significant.

Barbarella doesn’t belong on the list? Now you’ve got my Klingon blood boiling. Take it back this instant…or…or…I’ll call you bitchy.

 

[JustKate]

^ No, not bitchy. Just tasteful!

I'm lying, of course (about the "tasteful" part, I mean). I mean, I happen to love Space Balls, so realistically how tasteful can I be? If anybody can explain to me how Jane Fonda cavorting through the galaxy in very little clothing and discovering sex is "significant" in any way besides to the fantasy life of the guys who see it for the first time, I might change my mind. Maybe.

 

[exodus]

Plus, wasn't Weaver nominated for an Academy Award as Ripley for "Aliens"?

As for Sigourney Weaver’s Academy Award nomination, Weaver still today has a voodoo doll of Helen Hunt which she sticks pins in. Some would call this bitchy, but I wouldn’t dare.

Justkate, sex was Barbarella's weapon. Men were powerless against her, no device they created could stop her. It was a loose metaphor at how women actually have all the power over men.

Kinda like the saying goes: "Women sleep with whom they choose to, guys sleep with whom ever lets us." Guys can't do anything to a woman unless they allow it.

 

[JustKate]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

 

[exodus]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

Maybe.

Jane Fonda is famous as an activist for women rights, so don't see her doing that film without that being the hidden message.

Ok, I maybe reaching but something made that film a classic.

 

[JustKate]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

Maybe.

Jane Fonda is famous as an activist for women rights, so don't see her doing that film without that being the hidden message.

Ok, I maybe reaching but something made that film a classic.

I think we know what makes this film "classic," so to speak, and it ain't some feminist subtext.

Actually, I believe I've more than once read Fonda's attempts to disassociate herself from Barbarella. She doesn't quite do the "I was young and needed the money" line (clearly Henry Fonda's daughter wasn't hurting for cash), but she really is not fond of this particular part of her past. In fact, if I were you, I'd find a way to send your explanation to her. She might like it. It beats "young and needed the money."

 

[Zameaze]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

Maybe.

Jane Fonda is famous as an activist for women rights, so don't see her doing that film without that being the hidden message.

Ok, I maybe reaching but something made that film a classic.

Nah, I don’t think you’re reaching. She did burn out the evil male Durand’s Excessive Orgasm Machine. And blew out all his fuses too. Bad Barbarella. Have you no shame?

 

[exodus]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

Maybe.

Jane Fonda is famous as an activist for women rights, so don't see her doing that film without that being the hidden message.

Ok, I maybe reaching but something made that film a classic.

Nah, I don’t think you’re reaching. She did burn out the evil male Durand’s Excessive Orgasm Machine. And blew out all his fuses too. Bad Barbarella. Have you no shame?

...and that was exactly the scene I was thinkng of when I wrote my reply!

 

[exodus]

Uh huh. Nice try, Exodus. That's not my recollection. It seemed to me that it was all just an excuse to have some Campy Fun in Space with a pretty, scantily clad woman...

But then again, maybe I was just in a bitchy mood when I saw it.

Maybe.

Jane Fonda is famous as an activist for women rights, so don't see her doing that film without that being the hidden message.

Ok, I maybe reaching but something made that film a classic.

I think we know what makes this film "classic," so to speak, and it ain't some feminist subtext.

Actually, I believe I've more than once read Fonda's attempts to disassociate herself from Barbarella. She doesn't quite do the "I was young and needed the money" line (clearly Henry Fonda's daughter wasn't hurting for cash), but she really is not fond of this particular part of her past. In fact, if I were you, I'd find a way to send your explanation to her. She might like it. It beats "young and needed the money."

I could.
My step father's best friend is George Davis the author of "Coming Home", the book that was turned into a film starting Jane Fonda. I should take advantage of that connection.

Oops, double post.