Fans, what don't you like about TNG?

[Creedence]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG.

I asure you I am a fan of TNG. I just have a few things I really dislike about it. Geordi just happens to be near (or at) the top of the list. Reasoning: the aforementioned Leah Brahms debacle, interupting Data's gift of laughter from Q, his jealously of Barclay's increased mental powers, his utter failure with all women like Acquiel Unari. He is a whiny putz.

 

[Tachyon]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

I had similar thoughts about the corresponding thread on Voyager board.

 

[Amaris]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

I'm certain one or two aren't fans, but I've no doubt the rest are. We pick on what we love. I love TNG foibles and all, but I don't mind a little leisurely front porch pickin'.


J.

 

[Praetor]

Agreed with that, J. Allen.

 

[tomalak301]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

I'm certain one or two aren't fans, but I've no doubt the rest are. We pick on what we love. I love TNG foibles and all, but I don't mind a little leisurely front porch pickin'.


J.

Oh, I understand that. It's fun to pick a series apart. I mean we are Trek fans afterall.

I just think there have been some posts in this thread from people who I question if they actually liked the show or just came in here as a stomping ground to bash the show some more. For example, someone upthread said the cast was boring. Well, if the cast was boring, what about the show did you like because the Cast was the show. I then start questioning if you really did like TNG or not.

It's also the issue of anonymity of the internet why threads like these don't work. I mean I can write a post here and if anyone is new or not, they wouldn't know if I liked the show or not. I think if you did want a good idea of what people thought, than the two threads would be merged, but then people would have to write a lot more and they wouldn't do that.

 

[neozeks]

What I don't like about these kind of threads is how simply 'I didn't like that' quickly turns to 'I hated that'.

 

[Warped9]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

The harshest critics often tend to be the ones who love something the most.

 

[RandyS]

For me, the abortion of the early-seasons promise of going further out there than TOS had, and a tendency to have everyone in the crew get along and be perfect.

That is a myth. If you look at the early episodes, Picard, and occasionally Riker, would talk down to the others, and whenever one of them would stand up to Picard he would slap them down. Riker included.

That said, I hated that Wesley was "perfect", which to me, translated into "wuss".

 

[Gary Sebben]

The Music. TOS produced some great music. TNG never did. Rick Berman considered music to be a necessary evil and never let the composers do anything interesting or original. TNG music is usually just single notes to emphasize a situation, but not anything you could hum to.

 

[Jayson]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

Don't forget though that people's views on the show will change with the passing of time. TNG was the trek that I first got into and made me a fan. Eventually though I felt it was surpased by the other shows(even Voyager and Enterprise at least when it comes to characters) and even other sci-fi shows. TNG is a show that doesn't hold up that well to repat viewings. The writing isn't bad and the plots were okay but the characters are just not intresting enough to me in reruns and I think most people watch reruns just for characters since they already know how the plots will go. When I watch "TOS" it basically to see Kirk,Spock and McCoy interacting. I watch Ds9 to see those type of character interactions. TNG doesn't have characters you just love to watch, even when the plot that week might not be so great.


Jason

 

[Gary Sebben]

Don't forget though that people's views on the show will change with the passing of time. TNG was the trek that I first got into and made me a fan. Eventually though I felt it was surpased by the other shows(even Voyager and Enterprise at least when it comes to characters) and even other sci-fi shows.

Surpassed by <hurrrrrr...hurrrr...> Voyager and <hurrrrr..HUUuuurrrr...ukl..> Enterprise? I'm sorry, but I just barfed a little in my mouth. I admit I've started to view TNG as a sort of sanctimonious circle jerk where human beings are so degraded they can't even drink real alcohol for fear of losing their socially enforced sensitivity for a moment, but Data alone is probably a deeper character than all the other characters on DS9, VOY, and ENT combined.

 

[tomalak301]

You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.

Don't forget though that people's views on the show will change with the passing of time. TNG was the trek that I first got into and made me a fan. Eventually though I felt it was surpased by the other shows(even Voyager and Enterprise at least when it comes to characters) and even other sci-fi shows. TNG is a show that doesn't hold up that well to repat viewings. The writing isn't bad and the plots were okay but the characters are just not intresting enough to me in reruns and I think most people watch reruns just for characters since they already know how the plots will go. When I watch "TOS" it basically to see Kirk,Spock and McCoy interacting. I watch Ds9 to see those type of character interactions. TNG doesn't have characters you just love to watch, even when the plot that week might not be so great.


Jason

Well, then that doesn't it make you a fan. Oh, and I love to watch the TNG characters, but to each their own.

 

[flemm]

Oh, and I love to watch the TNG characters, but to each their own.

As do I. I think one thing to remember is that there is a lot of ridiculous crap posted on the internet

Another thing to remember is that in the internet echo-chamber you will end up reading passionate opinions (especially scathingly negative ones) about episodes people have never watched, books they have never read, and so on

 

[Amaris]

Agreed with that, J. Allen.

Of course!

Oh, I understand that. It's fun to pick a series apart. I mean we are Trek fans afterall.

I just think there have been some posts in this thread from people who I question if they actually liked the show or just came in here as a stomping ground to bash the show some more. For example, someone upthread said the cast was boring. Well, if the cast was boring, what about the show did you like because the Cast was the show. I then start questioning if you really did like TNG or not.

It's also the issue of anonymity of the internet why threads like these don't work. I mean I can write a post here and if anyone is new or not, they wouldn't know if I liked the show or not. I think if you did want a good idea of what people thought, than the two threads would be merged, but then people would have to write a lot more and they wouldn't do that.

I understand that. Also, I wanted to use the phrase "front porch pickin'".

J.

 

[Praetor]

For me, the abortion of the early-seasons promise of going further out there than TOS had, and a tendency to have everyone in the crew get along and be perfect.

That is a myth. If you look at the early episodes, Picard, and occasionally Riker, would talk down to the others, and whenever one of them would stand up to Picard he would slap them down. Riker included.

It's often exaggerated, yes. "Yesterday's Enterprise" comes to mind as a good example where everyone is somewhat at each other's throats, but then again that's another universe. But it's still there. Disagreements were rarer than they were normal, and when they were there they were usually band-aided by the end of the episode. People rarely made mistakes, either.

That said, I hated that Wesley was "perfect", which to me, translated into "wuss".

There's something to that, methinks. One who has no challenges to overcome might never develop a "courage in the face of adversity."

Wes was just all-around mishandled as a character. I wanted to like him, but he felt too Mary Sue-ish.

 

[Warped9]

Troi was/is a character I loathe. I disliked the actress and how the character was written and handled overall.

I began watching Law & Order in '89 right around when I started watching TNG more consistently. I recall really liking how the psychiatrist Dr. Elizabeth Olivette was handled and thinking, "Now that is how they should be writing Troi. That's a believable and not annoying character." And the actress playing Olivette was also a better performer than Sirtis. She also happened to have played Minuette in "10010011."

 

[flemm]

Troi was/is a character I loathe. I disliked the actress and how the character was written and handled overall.

To me one of the problems with Troi's character is that she is empathic. The idea of adding a ship's counselor is a good one, but was neutered in my opinion by the character's superhuman ability.

It created all manner of ridiculous dialogue and constantly had to be written around, or outright ignored. And it made her actual work as a counselor less interesting as well.

On another level, though, the characters on TNG mostly don't need a counselor all that badly, which makes Troi seem like dead weight a lot of the time. A counselor on DS9 would have made more sense, and I do think Ezri found her niche pretty quickly in that role for one season. Basically, having a counselor around makes more sense if she is constantly dealing with characters that are screwed up or having serious issues, which was never really the case on TNG.

This one may have been a lost cause from the beginning for that reason.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

On another level, though, the characters on TNG mostly don't need a counselor all that badly, which makes Troi seem like dead weight a lot of the time. A counselor on DS9 would have made more sense, and I do think Ezri found her niche pretty quickly in that role for one season. Basically, having a counselor around makes more sense if she is constantly dealing with characters that are screwed up or having serious issues, which was never really the case on TNG.

This one may have been a lost cause from the beginning for that reason.

Fo'sho. Serving on a ship of characters who are so emotionally secure undercut the character so much that Troi was just as bland as the carpeting.

 

[Warped9]

^^ When I think of Troi I can't help but think of Kirk in TFF saying he didn't need a conman to deal with his pain. "I need my pain. It's part of who we are."

I wish Picard had said that to Troi on occasion. "What am I feeling? At the moment I'm feeling extreme annoyance. Now get outta my face."

 

[Starbreaker]

I don't like Shades of Gray.