The Spock/Uhura Thing: Either Way, Someone Doesn't Look Good

[Franklin]

yep. it's the reason many fans hated Kira in DS9. she stood up for herself.

That was one of the things I liked about Kira.

me too. but there're plenty people who don't. believe me, I've had an earful about how she's "always on the rag" etc for years...

she's one of my favorite Trek characters.

Kira was a strong character who had gone through hell early in her life. Who she was and what she stood for were entirely believable.
People can say what they want about DS9, but at least in my opinion, Kira and the major characters of that show were the best fleshed-out Trek characters of the entire franchise.

 

[Kirk1980]

In my view, it was lazy, unbelievable writing.

What, in this context, made anyone think these were going to be PERMANENT postings? They just assigned CADETS to the ships. This was clearly an emergency arrangement. AFTER the emergency has passed, she should then voice her protest. Taking even a SECOND from reporting to her duty station to whine is ridiculous.

And lest anyone forget, I'm not excusing Spock, either.

The whole movie is lazily scripted with not even a modicum of sound believability in presenting them as officers of any organization with any military decorum.

 

[pookha]

considering a lot of them were graduating seniors in some cases it could be their permanent berthing and for others in the lower levels they were probably just filling in for crew away on leave yet.

as for lack of proper military decorum .. actually that arguement has been used against tos itself.

like in the example i pointed to earlier things were different between tos and the military as it is now

.

TOS doesn't enter into it. I never mentioned TOS.

sorry what...
you cant keep tos out of it whether you bring it up or not.
this movie is based upon the tos universe and draws upon it despite it being a parallel universe.

 

[number6]

Spock and Uhura had a certain kind of chemistry and subtext on the series as well. It isn't unreasonable to see it here in the film. With the destruction of Vulcan, it is probable that Spock's devotion to duty and responsibility will preclude any further relationship with Uhura, serving together on the Enterprise.

This one's a no brainer. They both serve on the same ship and will realise that their devotion to duty and their careers will preclude this going further and they will end it amicably and have the same mutual respect they exhibit on TOS.

 

[Kirk1980]

Number6, I hope that's how it gets played off, as well.

Pookha, that's something that's on you then. I am trying to consider if this movie as is, as its own movie, has merit, drawing as little as I can upon my feelings regarding the older show.

 

[number6]

Actually, there's no reason not to draw sentiments from the original show. Don't forget, the writers are fans, not only of the show but of the novels as well. We have an opportunity to see new stories that have all the heart of the original show, but with a fresher perspective brought on by the events set up in this movie.

As for the militaristic discrepancies, all series have played loose with how the contemporary military operates. There is no reason to assume that Starfleet has to adhere to contemporary standards or that those standards would have to apply 200 years from now exactly as they do today. The producers of TOS and the series and movies that followed have always kept that aspect of the show kind of vague, using only what they needed to tell the story. This isn't a show about the military. Never has, nor should it be. I sympathise with those who feel that the actual service would do things differently, but that's never been what the show was about, and therefore I never expect that in any of Star Trek's incarnations.

 

[Bobatiel]

There is no reason to assume that Starfleet has to adhere to contemporary standards or that those standards would have to apply 200 years from now exactly as they do today.

Good point.

How different is today's military compared to the military of 1809?

 

[JohanKoch]

I thought the relationship was very well handled and a welcome addition to the script.

Remember, Spock was originally going to keep Uhura off Enterprise, presumably because of their relationship. She went to him and demanded to be treated like any other cadet. This is clearly not a case of either favoritism, or of Uhura using sex to advance in her career (an idea totally unsupported by what we saw in the film).

I noticed at one point, Uhura was called "Lieutenant Uhura". This was just after she replaced the Enterprise's original communications officer. Was this just a field promotion, or was she already a lieutenant at the start of the movie? If she was, then maybe she was just at Starfleet for some sort of advanced training...? Remembers, she seemed to already be a cadet at the time Kirk joined up. It might explain how she and Spock knew each other as fellow officers (and not just teacher/student) before the destruction of Vulcan. Just speculation, of course.

 

[Indegato]

I agree that the spock was very flawed and very human even egotistical, but the point is that uhura was the best person for the job.

 

[Kirk1980]

Which still doesn't forgive her lapse of discipline.

What's more important? Your career or taking care of an emergency which resulted in the assignment of CADETS to starships?

 

[galleywest]

Well, the point is that Uhura decided that Uhura was the best person for the job and bullied a person she knew would give in to her in order to get the post she wanted (she admits that this is the reason during her conversation with Spock). Obviously it did work out for the best, but neither she nor Spock could know that at the time. At the time they were simply responding to a distress call for a natural disaster.

Yes, that did bother me. I don't mind Uhura being assertive, but she came off as whiny and Spock as a pushover in that scene. I have way more problems with the Spock aspect of it than Uhura, it did not speak well to his character. And even if the novelization and the web site dossiers (first I've heard of them) have more background information, it didn't read coherently in the movie (my only reference point). But I'm one of those who found the relationship a weird, awkwardly handled aspect of the movie.

 

[Kirk1980]

Yeah, both of them weren't exactly displaying sound judgement there. Both Spock and Uhura really need to be more disciplined if I'm going to believe in them come next movie.

Otherwise they come off as no more mature and disciplined than your average kid off the street.

 

[Sci]

Well, the point is that Uhura decided that Uhura was the best person for the job and bullied a person she knew would give in to her in order to get the post she wanted

How on Earth is respectfully but assertively asking for an explanation for irrational and unjust orders the same as "bullying" someone?

 

[indranee]

come on... you guys are totally spoiling a great little scene here!

 

[Kirk1980]

Bullied is probably too strong a word but the writers put them in this position. If they had written things a bit more rationally or given a better setup to Uhura's righteous rage and Spock's decision to put her off Enterprise then this whole argument would cease to exist.

 

[NileQT87]

"Discipline" of the asexual undramatic professional variety where people just debate and give out orders on the bridge was what was hurting the franchise in the eyes of much of the public. Someone needed to give the story a kick up the backside and give it some oomph. Stories must have conflict and imperfect characters or else they are just BORING.

Giving something of a dramatic and romantic nature for female non-fans to latch onto was a good move in making the franchise more approachable and exciting to a wider audience. Be thankful.

And most women were with Uhura 100% for standing up for herself, while at the same time feeling for Spock and understanding how he is struggling to deal with these new variables to which he is uncomfortable with.

 

[Kirk1980]

I'm not thankful

But I imagine you can tell that would be the case. It just didn't work for me at all in terms of who these characters are supposed to be. I wouldn't respect either of them as officers knowing that scene took place.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well, the point is that Uhura decided that Uhura was the best person for the job and bullied a person she knew would give in to her in order to get the post she wanted

How on Earth is respectfully but assertively asking for an explanation for irrational and unjust orders the same as "bullying" someone?

It's assertive and cool when it's a male doing it. It's bullying and bitchiness when it's a female. Get it?

yep. it's the reason many fans hated Kira in DS9. she stood up for herself.

That was one of the things I liked about Kira.

me too. but there're plenty people who don't. believe me, I've had an earful about how she's "always on the rag" etc for years...

she's one of my favorite Trek characters.

Kira was a strong character who had gone through hell early in her life. Who she was and what she stood for were entirely believable.
People can say what they want about DS9, but at least in my opinion, Kira and the major characters of that show were the best fleshed-out Trek characters of the entire franchise.

What do those people say about DS9? I think it's the best Trek show. It had many great characters. I absolutely loved Kira, she is one of my favourite Trek characters, too.

 

[Kirk1980]

It is NOT a sexism thing.

I thought Spock's actions were just as deplorable and if a male officer did the same thing, I'd be all over them, too.

Gender is not taken into account in this instance.

There's standing up for yourself when circumstances allow, then there's being more upset about ship assignment than worrying about how to address the crisis on Vulcan.

 

[NileQT87]

And without Uhura, Kirk would have never learned of the transmissions. It's a good thing that Uhura didn't get killed on the Farragut, because she is the most qualified person for her job aboard the Enterprise.

Spock is a case of a growing character who needed to show these little imperfections. This is an example of him overcompensating for only being half-Vulcan and the error in trying to prove that he is something which he is not. You can't explore that without showing it.