Did Mayweather make it to admiral?

[SFRabid]

I'm glad the Mod managed to turn yet another troll thread from Baba into something viable. Anyway, ...

I don't think the problem was ever Mayweather. Montgomery did well with the part and seemed to have more to do in the first two seasons. He was odd man out once the Xindi arc started and never recovered.

 

[clint g]

I always thought it was idiotic that they had a "regular" cast member whose only role was to steer the ship. Yeah, I know about the Big Three concept, but Anthony's screen credit was up front along with Scott, Connor and Jolene, which made him a regular.

You know, JiNX, I think the whole Who is Mayweather? problem might have been avoided if the opening credits only referenced Bakula, Blalock, Trineer and Keating, with maybe a "and John Billingsley as Phlox." Leaving Montgomery and Park to the end credits (as, iirc, the minor TOS cast originally were) would have obviated the griping, or at least changed it to Why is this an all-white cast!!? Which is a different issue completely.

Hence the term Token black guy. it isnt an offensive or derogatory term. It IS a term used to describe placing a black person in the cast for the sole purpose of having a black person in the cast. In the case of mayweather, this seemed to be the case. What is the point of having a title character if the guy doesnt even get any lines. Wasted potential.

 

[bluedana]

I always thought it was idiotic that they had a "regular" cast member whose only role was to steer the ship. Yeah, I know about the Big Three concept, but Anthony's screen credit was up front along with Scott, Connor and Jolene, which made him a regular.

You know, JiNX, I think the whole Who is Mayweather? problem might have been avoided if the opening credits only referenced Bakula, Blalock, Trineer and Keating, with maybe a "and John Billingsley as Phlox." Leaving Montgomery and Park to the end credits (as, iirc, the minor TOS cast originally were) would have obviated the griping, or at least changed it to Why is this an all-white cast!!? Which is a different issue completely.

Hence the term Token black guy. it isnt an offensive or derogatory term. It IS a term used to describe placing a black person in the cast for the sole purpose of having a black person in the cast. In the case of mayweather, this seemed to be the case. What is the point of having a title character if the guy doesnt even get any lines. Wasted potential.

With all due respect, "token" is an offensive term, just as "sambo" or "uncle tom" would be. If you don't know what the terms mean historically, then perhaps you should not use them.

Mayweather the character is not a token. He is the helmsman, and I think he should have gotten credited when he actually was used in the episode. He wasn't necessary each time, but this does not make him a token. The helmsman's function was not to debate issues of the week, so he didn't require a lot of dialogue, but this does not make him a token.

The broader issue I was addressing, and it is a different issues, is that if there were going to be a few main characters used each week, there's no reason one or more of them couldn't have been played by a black actor. This would not have been tokenism - Sisko could not be said to be a token. Because Mayweather was not a main character in reality, having Montgomery's name in the opening credits, essentially equating his role with Bakula's and Trineer's and Blalock, just made the audience go WTF?

I have too much experience with the idea of real tokenism to be able to debate the issue further, so I will bow out of this discussion now.

 

[clint g]

You know, JiNX, I think the whole Who is Mayweather? problem might have been avoided if the opening credits only referenced Bakula, Blalock, Trineer and Keating, with maybe a "and John Billingsley as Phlox." Leaving Montgomery and Park to the end credits (as, iirc, the minor TOS cast originally were) would have obviated the griping, or at least changed it to Why is this an all-white cast!!? Which is a different issue completely.

Hence the term Token black guy. it isnt an offensive or derogatory term. It IS a term used to describe placing a black person in the cast for the sole purpose of having a black person in the cast. In the case of mayweather, this seemed to be the case. What is the point of having a title character if the guy doesnt even get any lines. Wasted potential.

With all due respect, "token" is an offensive term, just as "sambo" or "uncle tom" would be. If you don't know what the terms mean historically, then perhaps you should not use them.

Mayweather the character is not a token. He is the helmsman, and I think he should have gotten credited when he actually was used in the episode. He wasn't necessary each time, but this does not make him a token. The helmsman's function was not to debate issues of the week, so he didn't require a lot of dialogue, but this does not make him a token.

I'm well aware of its meaning, and it fits in this case. Seriously, this PC bullcrap is ridiculous

The broader issue I was addressing, and it is a different issues, is that if there were going to be a few main characters used each week, there's no reason one or more of them couldn't have been played by a black actor. This would not have been tokenism - Sisko could not be said to be a token.

Sisko wasn't a token character because his character was treated with respect

Because Mayweather was not a main character in reality, having Montgomery's name in the opening credits, essentially equating his role with Bakula's and Trineer's and Blalock, just made the audience go WTF?

which is one of the failings of the show, it was pretty clear from the beggining that Mayweather was supposed to be developed as a character. They just decided not to care. If every other trek, excluding TOS, was able to work in some sort of development for each character and actualy give them some lines then I'm sure Ent could have done so as well. They just either choose not too or were lacking creativity. Either way, the character was relegated to uselessness.

I have too much experience with the idea of real tokenism to be able to debate the issue further, so I will bow out of this discussion now.

yeah, I'm sure

 

[Praetor]

To answer Baba's OP, obviously, yes.

The laws of universal balance dictate that Travis was a celebrated war-hero during the Romulan War, achieving his first command sooner than anyone until James T. Kirk decades later, and became Starfleet's first Fleet Admiral.

 

[cooleddie74]

We should make BABA a BBS admiral...just to upset the balance of Fail.

 

[Praetor]

Seconded!

(And I hadn't noticed what the original thread title was. )

 

[cooleddie74]

It will turn things upside down...but be DAMN funny.

 

[Skywalker]

Nah, he never got the chance. He was captain of the USS Horizon when it was lost after visiting Sigma Iotia II in 2168.

 

[cooleddie74]

Nah, he never got the chance. He was captain of the USS Horizon when it was lost after visiting Sigma Iotia II in 2168.

Damn idiot...and his mafia books that Trip gave him as a lazy, cheap birthday present!

 

[Praetor]

Let the man have a break, Skywalker! What did he ever do to you?

 

[Skywalker]

Nothing, I just think it'd be funny if he ended up captaining the Horizon.

 

[Praetor]

Hm, Skywalker... Mayweather? Name similarity.

Nah, I know where you're coming from. Why was he so obsessed with Chicago mobs of the twenties, anyway?

 

[Skywalker]

Hm, Skywalker... Mayweather? Name similarity.

I can't be Mayweather, I get more than two lines of dialogue in an episode.

 

[Praetor]

And more than two posts per day.

 

[Skywalker]

I live in Maine, there's nothing else to do around here.

 

[Praetor]

Hey, I'm unemployed and I live in North Carolina. Your move.

I'm inspired: "The May weather in Maine compares favorably to Spain."

What we need for Mayweather is an awesome "Facts" thread.

 

[TheGodBen]

What we need for Mayweather is an awesome "Facts" thread.

Can't, he's not bald.

 

[Praetor]

Damn. He really can't win.

 

[Skywalker]

Maybe he would have gone bald and grown a beard in Season Five. Then he could have been Sisko's childhood hero!