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Spock as hallucination, and why am I posting this?

Imaginary

Cadet
Newbie
Encouraged by my mate (the guy in the blue science officer shirt, who insisted we stay until the end of the credits for every damn movie), I'd like to postulate a wee theory. It's just a thought, so please don't expect me to defend it with my honour, but apparently, it's fun enough that it warrants my creating an account.

Let me begin with the note that I am not exactly a trekkie. Granted, for the sake of the above mentioned mate, I've seen every movie, far too many TOS episodes (sorry, Shatner irritates me to no end, and the goodness of Nimoy just isn't enough to make up for it), and am patiently working my way through TNG with him. I've also attended an actual concert with a full orchestra playing musing from ST, with John de Lancie and Robert Picardo there. (I was quite entertained by the fact that Woolsey was present, but I don't think my mate heard me over his girlish squeeing.)

Having said this, I'm an English major, and I like to pick things apart. When we saw this new movie, I had some thoughts. Please bear with me in that to me, they're movies, and I don't remember the finer details of the ST universe.

This new movie did not seem to sit with the other ones. I've never been a fan of "alternate realities" (Red Dwarf, as much as I adore it, drives me nuts in that regard), and somehow this movie felt like cheating. So, having taken my cue from my dear fanboy, I started to debate whether or not it was "canon."

On the one hand, *these don't seem to be the same characters.* What the hell happened to Chekov, for example? And Uhura has such a calm grace to her that this woman seems to be lacking. Where's Spock's quiet dignified amusement? Why is he emo? And how did they manage to find someone I find even more obnoxious than Shatner? Why is this man trying to beat *everything up*?? Nope; not canon.

Except for the problem of Ambassador Spock showing things up and creating a snag, pulling this summer flick into the ST universe. So what do I do? What any other self respecting English major would do. He's a *metaphor!*
Of what? Good question.

However, one could theorize that Kirk, being stranded on an ice planet (The name escapes me. What, Hoth? That sounds familiar) is currently undergoing a wee bit of stress. The idea of madness first entered my mind when Pike was captured by Captain McEvilGreenyPants, who seemed quite off his rocker. And maybe he is? Maybe there *is* no time travel. Maybe this guy, who's been breathing a few too many drilling fumes, came up with this on his own. Maybe the idea got planted in poor little Kirk's mind, and, with the strain, our hero, if you will, allows his subconscious to present him with a guide. From the future. In the form of someone who, to him, seems far more in control of things than he is, someone who has done better, someone who, perhaps, he is intimidated by.

Spock is older, has the girl, has the post, and has, despite his emo leanings, a greater control of his actions than "my name is stupid out of control child who breaks cars for fun!" Maybe Kirk pulled the one person he felt he could trust, and depend on, out of thin air. Or ice.

So what about Spock's eventual meeting with the good Ambassador? As weak as it sounds, the power of suggestion could have something to do with it. Maybe the first symptoms of his buying into Kirk's delusions came when the ship "recognized" him; a very stressful time for the lad, what with his planet having just imploded and all. Maybe that was just the first symptom, and the rest goes downhill in his mind. Technically, Ambassador Spock did not seem to impact any other characters. Having his shuffle off to rebuild Vulcan seems a little convenient. Young Spock's life isn't impacted in any way that could suggest Ambassador Spock's presence. It would be odd if he quit Starfleet over a hallucination.

What of the information that Ambassador Spock provided to Scotty? The only possible explanation is that Kirk came up with the idea himself, which strikes me as a rather uncomfortable suggestion. I'm not sure how well Kirk does academically, exactly, but he doesn't strike me as exactly the straight A type. So, that is definitely a weak point. As is the newfangled technology of the ships.

Well, it's a silly little theory.

About a movie.

That, were I a trekkie, I would mentally strike from having anything to do with ST.

But I'm not.
 
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Another day, another new member, another "here's my theory about how Star Trek sucks."

This is beginning to smell.
 
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Wow, just wow. We've reached the point where even non-fans care about canon! :wtf:
 
Another day, another new member, another "here's my theory about how Star Trek sucks."

This is beginning to smell like a trolling campaign.
Of course, you're not actually supposed to say that last part.

I will say that the OP's post might look a little better with some line breaks between paragraphs.

Edit:

Yes, that's much nicer. :)
 
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Why are they always dissertations, too? Who wants to read something that long?
 
Encouraged by my mate (the guy in the blue science officer shirt, who insisted we stay until the end of the credits for every damn movie), I'd like to postulate a wee theory. It's just a thought, so please don't expect me to defend it with my honour, but apparently, it's fun enough that it warrants my creating an account.

Let me begin with the note that I am not exactly a trekkie. Granted, for the sake of the above mentioned mate, I've seen every movie, far too many TOS episodes (sorry, Shatner irritates me to no end, and the goodness of Nimoy just isn't enough to make up for it), and am patiently working my way through TNG with him. I've also attended an actual concert with a full orchestra playing musing from ST, with John de Lancie and Robert Picardo there. (I was quite entertained by the fact that Woolsey was present, but I don't think my mate heard me over his girlish squeeing.)

Having said this, I'm an English major, and I like to pick things apart. When we saw this new movie, I had some thoughts. Please bear with me in that to me, they're movies, and I don't remember the finer details of the ST universe.

This new movie did not seem to sit with the other ones. I've never been a fan of "alternate realities" (Red Dwarf, as much as I adore it, drives me nuts in that regard), and somehow this movie felt like cheating. So, having taken my cue from my dear fanboy, I started to debate whether or not it was "canon."

On the one hand, *these don't seem to be the same characters.* What the hell happened to Chekov, for example? And Uhura has such a calm grace to her that this woman seems to be lacking. Where's Spock's quiet dignified amusement? Why is he emo? And how did they manage to find someone I find even more obnoxious than Shatner? Why is this man trying to beat *everything up*?? Nope; not canon.

Except for the problem of Ambassador Spock showing things up and creating a snag, pulling this summer flick into the ST universe. So what do I do? What any other self respecting English major would do. He's a *metaphor!*
Of what? Good question.

However, one could theorize that Kirk, being stranded on an ice planet (The name escapes me. What, Hoth? That sounds familiar) is currently undergoing a wee bit of stress. The idea of madness first entered my mind when Pike was captured by Captain McEvilGreenyPants, who seemed quite off his rocker. And maybe he is? Maybe there *is* no time travel. Maybe this guy, who's been breathing a few too many drilling fumes, came up with this on his own. Maybe the idea got planted in poor little Kirk's mind, and, with the strain, our hero, if you will, allows his subconscious to present him with a guide. From the future. In the form of someone who, to him, seems far more in control of things than he is, someone who has done better, someone who, perhaps, he is intimidated by.

Spock is older, has the girl, has the post, and has, despite his emo leanings, a greater control of his actions than "my name is stupid out of control child who breaks cars for fun!" Maybe Kirk pulled the one person he felt he could trust, and depend on, out of thin air. Or ice.

So what about Spock's eventual meeting with the good Ambassador? As weak as it sounds, the power of suggestion could have something to do with it. Maybe the first symptoms of his buying into Kirk's delusions came when the ship "recognized" him; a very stressful time for the lad, what with his planet having just imploded and all. Maybe that was just the first symptom, and the rest goes downhill in his mind. Technically, Ambassador Spock did not seem to impact any other characters. Having his shuffle off to rebuild Vulcan seems a little convenient. Young Spock's life isn't impacted in any way that could suggest Ambassador Spock's presence. It would be odd if he quit Starfleet over a hallucination.

What of the information that Ambassador Spock provided to Scotty? The only possible explanation is that Kirk came up with the idea himself, which strikes me as a rather uncomfortable suggestion. I'm not sure how well Kirk does academically, exactly, but he doesn't strike me as exactly the straight A type. So, that is definitely a weak point. As is the newfangled technology of the ships.

Well, it's a silly little theory.

About a movie.

That, were I a trekkie, I would mentally strike from having anything to do with ST.

But I'm not.

Get out of this forum.
 
So, how do you figure I was serious? :p

(By the way, I was serious. But the point is, on the internet it's very hard to tell if someone is just kidding.)
 
I don't blame you, I was never one to use emoticons.

I guess I forget that it is text on a screen, lol.


I fail.
 
Wow, the art of self depreciative humour is really lost on you lot, isn't it? Pray tell, why would you assume someone who's watched all the movies, is working her way through TNG, and has gone to a bloody ORCHESTRA performance of the music does not like ST? Especially with all the other Sci Fi references peppered around? So I'm reluctant to come out of the Trekkie closet. So what? Must you assume that any attempt at playfulness is an attack on ST in general? Where did I say "it sucks"? Where did I say I'm "anti-trek"? Why would I take the time to type all that if all I wanted to do was attack you? I'm guessing it took so long to read the "dissertation" that you ran out of time to think a little?
 
Lost the will to read it halfway through you want to be humeros keep it short n sweet :p
 
If this movie all just happened in Kirk's imagination, why didn't he imagine making out with Spock?

Very inconsiderate of him. :wtf:
 
Wow, the art of self depreciative humour is really lost on you lot, isn't it? Pray tell, why would you assume someone who's watched all the movies, is working her way through TNG, and has gone to a bloody ORCHESTRA performance of the music does not like ST? Especially with all the other Sci Fi references peppered around? So I'm reluctant to come out of the Trekkie closet. So what? Must you assume that any attempt at playfulness is an attack on ST in general? Where did I say "it sucks"? Where did I say I'm "anti-trek"? Why would I take the time to type all that if all I wanted to do was attack you? I'm guessing it took so long to read the "dissertation" that you ran out of time to think a little?


It's not that, it's just the fact that I personally can't stand people who tear things apart and nitpick.

People should just enjoy the movie and not complain about every little thing. It's not perfect, so what? Who cares? It was enjoyable.

Don't be offended, I am not trying to be rude, that's just my personal thoughts on it.
 
Jax: Not my intent. Rather, a thought I had that I had hoped to get feedback on, flavoured with an offbeat tone. I'll try to keep it under 140 chars, though. ;)

Temis the Votra: I didn't mean that at all; just that the elder Spock may be seen as a hallucinatory metaphor, if you really wanted to push it.
By the way, I think if you kind of squint during the fight scene, they do. :D

Kirk's Tights: Sure, perfectly understandable.
And yes - it was enjoyable, and there's nothing wrong with just enjoying it for what it is. I spent a couple of years being taught to tear things to shreds, and it kind of stayed with me.
I wasn't pointing out what was wrong with it exactly, I was posting my impression, and a silly idea I had. I thought I'd post my thoughts to a board my mate recommended as being full of discussion. I'm new to this.
(Obviously, if there are any posts in the future, a more direct, concise, and reverential tone ought to be used.)

Cubbie: Yeah, you think it was too long. The joke's been done.
 
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