I don't think Vulcan [SPOILERS]

[Qonos]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Yes, I have and I wasn't that impressed.

Quonos wrote:

Why must stating an opinion always result in a personal attack? Lack of arguments?

As for the "new" or more correct alternate timeline, it sucks. Therefore I dismiss it, just like every day when I thow out garbage.

Unlike the old timeline where Romulus was destroyed by a supernova.

Romulus destroyed? No way, it existed in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and even in that not-so-good "Nemesis" movie and all those events did take place after the events in the new movie.

So any "destruction" of Romulus is going out with the rest of the garbage.

Romulus is destruction happened before the begining of the film 129 years in the future in the OLD TIMELINE, AFTER TNG DS9 VOY took place (Ent takes place in time BEFORE this movie not after) Nero and Spock come back Nero bent on revenge for the loss of his planet begins his rampage killing George Kirk, leaving James T an orphan and that is where the Timelines Diverge.

You can not toss out Romulus being destroyed because it happens in the OLD TIMELINE Where Spock and Nero come from. Sorry

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Romulus destroyed? No way, it existed in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and even in that not-so-good "Nemesis" movie and all those events did take place after the events in the new movie.

So any "destruction" of Romulus is going out with the rest of the garbage.

The destruction of Romulus occurred in the original timeline AFTER TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT.

Spock and Nero time travelled AFTER the destruction of Romulus.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Yes, I have and I wasn't that impressed.

Quonos wrote:

Why must stating an opinion always result in a personal attack? Lack of arguments?

As for the "new" or more correct alternate timeline, it sucks. Therefore I dismiss it, just like every day when I thow out garbage.

Unlike the old timeline where Romulus was destroyed by a supernova.

Romulus destroyed? No way, it existed in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and even in that not-so-good "Nemesis" movie and all those events did take place after the events in the new movie.

So any "destruction" of Romulus is going out with the rest of the garbage.

Not really, the destruction of Romulus happened AFTER Nemesis. If you prefer to ignore it, that's your decision of course. There won't be any new footage for a long time if ever that will confirm or contradict Romulus' fate in this movie.

 

[Lynx]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Unlike the old timeline where Romulus was destroyed by a supernova.

Romulus destroyed? No way, it existed in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and even in that not-so-good "Nemesis" movie and all those events did take place after the events in the new movie.

So any "destruction" of Romulus is going out with the rest of the garbage.

Romulus is destruction happened before the begining of the film 129 years in the future in the OLD TIMELINE, AFTER TNG DS9 VOY took place (Ent takes place in time BEFORE this movie not after) Nero and Spock come back Nero bent on revenge for the loss of his planet begins his rampage killing George Kirk, leaving James T an orphan and that is where the Timelines Diverge.

You can not toss out Romulus being destroyed because it happens in the OLD TIMELINE Where Spock and Nero come from. Sorry

Well, I was confused by what's going on in the different timelines.

Anyway, it was like Janeway's "death". Unnecessary and meaningless.

 

[Qonos]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Romulus destroyed? No way, it existed in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and even in that not-so-good "Nemesis" movie and all those events did take place after the events in the new movie.

So any "destruction" of Romulus is going out with the rest of the garbage.

Romulus is destruction happened before the begining of the film 129 years in the future in the OLD TIMELINE, AFTER TNG DS9 VOY took place (Ent takes place in time BEFORE this movie not after) Nero and Spock come back Nero bent on revenge for the loss of his planet begins his rampage killing George Kirk, leaving James T an orphan and that is where the Timelines Diverge.

You can not toss out Romulus being destroyed because it happens in the OLD TIMELINE Where Spock and Nero come from. Sorry

Well, I was confused by what's going on in the different timelines.

Anyway, it was like Janeway's "death". Unnecessary and meaningless.

Except for the whole point of the story to even happen. Without Romulus being destroyed and Spock arriving late to stop the supernova the Narada would still be mining whatever for Romulus. Spock would still be trying to reunify the Roms and The Vulcans and there would have been no movie because Paramount would not have even tried to ressurect trek.

Let us face reality here this is[was] The only story Paramount approved to have the Star Trek name on and be turned into a movie. Had this Story not been written, we probably would not have a Trek XI...

That is the reality. You do not have to like it, you do not even have to watch it, but you have to respect that this was the only Trek Movie they had in development.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Yes, I have and I wasn't that impressed.

Oh. You're one of them.

 

[MadBaggins]

We need to remember that possibly the Romulan ship and the Jellyfish has such strong gravity generators and structrual-integrity that they can negate the forces of a blackhole (spaghetification, specificily.)

The planet, however, has neither of these things. The black hole also was formed INSIDE the planet. The planet pretty much imploded. If we ignore the spaghetification effect and just assume this was a simple "hole in space" the planet may have just traveled through it if it he "red matter" device was used on the outside of th planet and its core.

Vulcan is gone. If it DID come out of the "otherside" of this "black hole" like Spock and Nero did, it came out as clumps of dirt and rock.

OH come on, Trekker. If you can use technobabble words like "spaghettification" and techncalbabble devices like "gravite generatrons" to explain the Jellyfish and the Nauroto coming out the otherside okay, SURELY you can use similar treknobabble to explain Vulcan surviving! Like I said in my original thesis, Vulcan did break up into pieces, yes, but those pieces could have been put back together inverted on the other side. You could say that the black hole formed a new gravitational core for Vulcan and sucked all the pieces around it to make a new planet. It could happen. Stranger thinks have happened in Star Trek.

Or maybe Q transported Vulcan into the Q continuum because he knew it wasn't supposed to be destroyed in the original timeline! He could put it back in the next movie. Q is canon. He was born before the Kelvin was destroyed.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

OH come on, Trekker. If you can use technobabble words like "spaghettification" and techncalbabble devices like "gravite generatrons" to explain the Jellyfish and the Nauroto coming out the otherside okay, SURELY you can use similar treknobabble to explain Vulcan surviving! Like I said in my original thesis, Vulcan did break up into pieces, yes, but those pieces could have been put back together inverted on the other side. You could say that the black hole formed a new gravitational core for Vulcan and sucked all the pieces around it to make a new planet. It could happen. Stranger thinks have happened in Star Trek.

Or maybe Q transported Vulcan into the Q continuum because he knew it wasn't supposed to be destroyed in the original timeline! He could put it back in the next movie. Q is canon. He was born before the Kelvin was destroyed.

This has got to be trolling surely? you cannot be serious.

 

[Squiggy]

If you can use technobabble words like "spaghettification"...

It's a real word.

 

[Lynx]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

Romulus is destruction happened before the begining of the film 129 years in the future in the OLD TIMELINE, AFTER TNG DS9 VOY took place (Ent takes place in time BEFORE this movie not after) Nero and Spock come back Nero bent on revenge for the loss of his planet begins his rampage killing George Kirk, leaving James T an orphan and that is where the Timelines Diverge.

You can not toss out Romulus being destroyed because it happens in the OLD TIMELINE Where Spock and Nero come from. Sorry

Well, I was confused by what's going on in the different timelines.

Anyway, it was like Janeway's "death". Unnecessary and meaningless.

Except for the whole point of the story to even happen. Without Romulus being destroyed and Spock arriving late to stop the supernova the Narada would still be mining whatever for Romulus. Spock would still be trying to reunify the Roms and The Vulcans and there would have been no movie because Paramount would not have even tried to ressurect trek.

Let us face reality here this is[was] The only story Paramount approved to have the Star Trek name on and be turned into a movie. Had this Story not been written, we probably would not have a Trek XI...

That is the reality. You do not have to like it, you do not even have to watch it, but you have to respect that this was the only Trek Movie they had in development.

Yes, I can see your point here.

And I'm not that critical about the movie. It wasn't that bad if you just want a decent action movie with Star trek characters involved.

The problem is that the screwing-up of certain things will affect almost everything in upcoming Star Trek movies, series and books and I can't accept that.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

The problem is that the screwing-up of certain things will affect almost everything in upcoming Star Trek movies, series and books and I can't accept that.

Um. That's sort of the point.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

The problem is that the screwing-up of certain things will affect almost everything in upcoming Star Trek movies, series and books and I can't accept that.

Do you understand that the Original timeline still exists? and this new timeline is separate? The original timeline is still continuing on but is simply missing Spock and Nero. This new timeline is just that, a new timeline completely separate from the original.

 

[Qonos]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

No because this Timeline is Seperate from the original and as I said Pocket Books still has plenty of TNG books, ENT books, Voy Books and DS9 Books coming out along with OT Trek books coming out along side any novels that use this Timeline to write stories.

 

[MadBaggins]

How can the timeline be seperate? When McCoy saved Edith Keeler and Hitler won the war and became ruler of Earth, that timeline was ERASED by Kirk murdering Keller. Surely Vulcan being destroyed and the other changes ERASES the original timeline? Or are you saying the timeline where Hitler won the war is still ongoing and is equally as valid as the original timeline!?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

How can the timeline be seperate? When McCoy saved Edith Keeler and Hitler won the war and became ruler of Earth, that timeline was ERASED by Kirk murdering Keller. Surely Vulcan being destroyed and the other changes ERASES the original timeline? Or are you saying the timeline where Hitler won the war is still ongoing and is equally as valid as the original timeline!?

Because every time there was time travel in Trek we were witnessing the new timelines except the new timelines were so similar (eg. Sisko becoming Gabriel Bell) that we saw no difference. This time we're seeing the difference but previous timelines continue on.

Cochrane never originally needed help from Picard and co, them going back in time created a new timeline where Picard and co helped cochrane but the difference AFTER this event didn't change anything noticable.
So before the 'First Contact' film the timelines we were seeing was the one where Cochrane didn't need Picards help, AFTER 'First Contact' and during 'Nemesis' it was a new timeline where Picard and co helped Cochrane.

This time around the alteration is very noticable.

So the timeline where cochrane didn't need Picards help is still out there but so too is the timeline where Picard helped out.

So for example the timeline where Cochrane didn't need Picards help is continuing on but it is missing the Enterprise and the Enterprise crew.

It's pretty straight forward, anybody should be able to understand this.

 

[iguana_tonante]

If you can use technobabble words like "spaghettification"...

It's a real word.

Damn, Squiggy beat me to it.

How can the timeline be seperate? When McCoy saved Edith Keeler and Hitler won the war and became ruler of Earth, that timeline was ERASED by Kirk murdering Keller. Surely Vulcan being destroyed and the other changes ERASES the original timeline? Or are you saying the timeline where Hitler won the war is still ongoing and is equally as valid as the original timeline!?

All right kids, you know the drill...

 

[Qonos]

How can the timeline be seperate? When McCoy saved Edith Keeler and Hitler won the war and became ruler of Earth, that timeline was ERASED by Kirk murdering Keller. Surely Vulcan being destroyed and the other changes ERASES the original timeline? Or are you saying the timeline where Hitler won the war is still ongoing and is equally as valid as the original timeline!?

yes.... and no....

quantum realities are a mofo like that

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

OH come on, Trekker. If you can use technobabble words like "spaghettification" and techncalbabble devices like "gravite generatrons" to explain the Jellyfish and the Nauroto coming out the otherside okay, SURELY you can use similar treknobabble to explain Vulcan surviving! Like I said in my original thesis, Vulcan did break up into pieces, yes, but those pieces could have been put back together inverted on the other side. You could say that the black hole formed a new gravitational core for Vulcan and sucked all the pieces around it to make a new planet. It could happen. Stranger thinks have happened in Star Trek.

Or maybe Q transported Vulcan into the Q continuum because he knew it wasn't supposed to be destroyed in the original timeline! He could put it back in the next movie. Q is canon. He was born before the Kelvin was destroyed.

This has got to be trolling surely? you cannot be serious.

He's MadBaggins -- he doesn't have to be serious.

 

[Squiggy]

I've dumbed it down as much as I can. If you want me to get more technical on yo ass...

All the blue is the old Trekkian way of looking at things, where any alteration to a timeline is negated by something so nothing was ever changed. We never saw any changes and the merry crew went on to visit the next forehead of the week.

This time around, we see shit happens. We're sticking in an altered timeline.

 

[Lynx]

Re: I don't think Vulcan was really destroyed

The problem is that the screwing-up of certain things will affect almost everything in upcoming Star Trek movies, series and books and I can't accept that.

Do you understand that the Original timeline still exists? and this new timeline is separate? The original timeline is still continuing on but is simply missing Spock and Nero. This new timeline is just that, a new timeline completely separate from the original.

Spock can't be missing in the Original timeline since he was visible in the 24th century. If he is, due to events taking place after "Nemesis", then we have another example of character destruction.