I’ll just go ahead and say it: I don’t like Star Trek.

[Michael]

Wait the Cage, Which NBC told Roddenberry Go back and Reshoot?

That THE CAGE???

Yeah, that The Cage. The unaired pilot that was later incorporated into one of the most popular episodes of the first season of The Original Series.

If it did such a great job the first time Why wasn't it picked up..

Have I missed the memo where television studios pledge to pick up every series that is good?

 

[donners22]

Indeed, any episode that result in a reset, and there are many, is empty meaningless shite because none the portrayed events actually transpire.

By those standards, Year of Hell would would be terrible. I disagree.

None of the portrayed events ever actually transpire, because it's fiction! Should it really matter to us whether events in a fictional timeline are reset? If you're saying that they are meaningless because they don't have an impact on the characters, I think of the vast majority of episodes are never mentioned again in any context. Does that make all those episodes equally meaningless?

As long as they are actually entertaining, I don't see the problem.

 

[Qonos]

Usually when a series is good they do pick it up and BTW The ratings for Star Trek when it originally ran weren't anywhere near good which is why it needed a letter writing campaign to get through it's second and to a third season.

 

[Bigedmond]

I know this is gonna sound like the blonde in me but, when did Trek become so debatable and controversal between posters??

Since some of these guys spend every waking moment watching the first series, and writing their own stories, and tech to match their beliefs.

I think that is the main point of all complaining. They liked what the made, and the rules the created. They created the "star trek lore." Going away from them means they might have to do it again, especially with a few drastic changes made to the time lines.



For those that don't like church, i am with you. BUT, wouldn't Spock be Jesus? He sacrificed himself for the crew of the enterprise at the end of Khan, and was reborn in the next movie.


Another thing that gripes me. Some people dont like the how bright and clean the new Star Trek is, and want it more TOS style. Look at how technology moves. Wouldnt you want us, as a human race to use more modern technology vs what was considered state of the art 40 years ago. Do you really want the future to use an Atari for tactical?

 

[Silent_Bob]

Since some of these guys spend every waking moment watching the first series, and writing their own stories, and tech to match their beliefs.

Yes, and we all live in our parents basements too

I think the problem with Star Trek is that it has so much to live up to. Abrahms basically took what worked in Serenity and transplanted it into the Star Trek mythos. Now, will that make a great action-packed movie? Certainly. Will it make a great Star Trek movie? That's where we start to head into gray area.

I was sitting in the theater watching the credits, and I happened to notice that the list for the digital graphics artists was enormously gigantic. It filled up the entire screen with names for roughly 4 seconds of scrolling. I turned to my brother and said, "Yknow, I wonder which the production crew got more peeved at: when an actor couldn't make it to film, or when a digital artist called in sick? My money's on the latter."

What we also had to understand about the characters is that, thanks to this alternate timeline/universe stuff, these are no longer the TOS crew that we've come to love. They're essentially old characters being rebooted and reforged into something completely different. Because of this, I think we as a fanbase were expecting a lot more character development than we saw in the film. I was pretty saddened that many of the bridge officers fell back into supporting character rolls after their introduction scenes, especially McCoy and Scottie, who became little more than comic relief after they were almost obligitorially ushered in.

I forget who said they felt like this movie was a fast talking car salesman, all lights and flash with no real meat behind it, but I think that is a perfect metaphor for this film.

Agree with your last point, although Serenity was a good film so i have no problems with future films copying it and its a tad unreasonable to expect character development for the entire cast. Star Trek was never an ensemble, despite the protests of several of the secondary cast members. The only issue i have with screen time is McCoy didnt get enough.

 

[Trilliam]

I was sitting in the theater watching the credits, and I happened to notice that the list for the digital graphics artists was enormously gigantic. It filled up the entire screen with names for roughly 4 seconds of scrolling. I turned to my brother and said, "Yknow, I wonder which the production crew got more peeved at: when an actor couldn't make it to film, or when a digital artist called in sick? My money's on the latter."

Oe of my sons is training in this field (digital art, filmmaking and multimedia) so this is a good thing.

What we also had to understand about the characters is that, thanks to this alternate timeline/universe stuff, these are no longer the TOS crew that we've come to love. They're essentially old characters being rebooted and reforged into something completely different. Because of this, I think we as a fanbase were expecting a lot more character development than we saw in the film. I was pretty saddened that many of the bridge officers fell back into supporting character rolls after their introduction scenes, especially McCoy and Scottie, who became little more than comic relief after they were almost obligitorially ushered in.

How many times/ways have the Arthurian legends been reworked and retold?

I forget who said they felt like this movie was a fast talking car salesman, all lights and flash with no real meat behind it, but I think that is a perfect metaphor for this film.

TEHO

Agree with your last point, although Serenity was a good film so i have no problems with future films copying it and its a tad unreasonable to expect character development for the entire cast. Star Trek was never an ensemble, despite the protests of several of the secondary cast members. The only issue i have with screen time is McCoy didnt get enough.

A taste can be more tantalising than a full plate. Leave them wanting more.

 

[TenLubak]

I am 26, I spent 15 dollars on the IMAX film last night. I had a hard time with this movie. I felt that it didn't give any of the lessons, or teach me anything about humanity as Treks of the past have. That to me was the most important part of Star Trek. Here I just didn't feel it.
I liked the opening scence with Kirk being born, I felt something there.
I like Mc Coy, like the pretty spaceships, and effects.
I didn't like the overall story, because it really streched it. I didn't feel the miner Nero's anger toward Spock, I didn't understand why Spock lauched Kirk onto the ice world, and why he just happend to bump into old Spock. Why didn't he land a mile to the east, or 3000 miles to the west. Or while he was asleep. It didn't make any sense, how Spock said Kirk you have to take command and stop Nero, but I can't help because i'll meet myself and that'll screw things up. Then they bump into Scotty hanging out in a boiler room, old Spock teaches him somthing he will invent, because it doesn't matter it seems, then the beam themselves into the water pipe? Kirk has to push the open water pipe button to get him out...? Mmm...ok. Beamed real far, they are back....
Nero then after 25 years of hanging out doing nothing, is defeated. And old Spock decides to say hey young Spock good job, bro.
End of the film.

It felt like Trek at some parts, mostly between the McCoy and Kirk scenes which were dead on I felt for McCoy who is always my favorite. Didn't like the plot device where he snuck Kirk on with the disease. Like nobody would check who he bringing aboard. McCoy says he's the CMO so the guard believes him and just lets him walk aboard?

I'm sorta all over the place with this, but thats how my head felt watching this film. Like what the hell is going on? I didn't understand why Pike made Kirk first officer. I mean if I was Lt. Bill in the hydoponics and that little thug was made captain over me i'd be pissed, and I'd be pissed that the others followed that little punk's orders. He's a cadet! I suppose they were Pike's orders so, that was ok for sorta. Why he gave them I have no idea..what's the history between Kirk and Pike, why in a 2 min talk in a bar does he decide, ya kno what my dad was a soldier, I wanna be one to. Is there something I don't know about thier relationship?

It makes me love the original Gene Roddenberry/Rick Berman trek so much more. It gave me hope that humanity would be better than it is now. Something I totally didn't feel when Kirk decides to just kill Nero when it looks like he was gonna die anyway...

Finally Kirk saves the world. Let's just promote him to oh i don't kno acting Ensign....no...let's just go ahead and make him captain....not when's he's done school. Not in a few years. Right now. (talk about and insurance risk for Geico on the Enterprise.)

It really made me leaving the theatre thinking huh...so that's it....why....ok..and then being sorta sad.

Well there are always the new novels..

 

[Feofilakt]

You are not really a high cinema kind of guy, are you?

When the hell did Star Trek become "high cinema?"

Oh, that was a pretty generic put-down from Feofilakt; it translates as "I have no reply to that."

Just poking fun at his praise of the movie, Dennis.

 

[TheGodBen]

Wait the Cage, Which NBC told Roddenberry Go back and Reshoot?

That THE CAGE???

If it did such a great job the first time Why wasn't it picked up..

Why make WNMHGB?

Because NBC wanted certain things changed but they didn't want to drop the project entirely because they saw its potential and they made the unprecedented move of paying for a second pilot.

However, considering the fact that you post on this message board I would assume you already knew all that.

Since some of these guys spend every waking moment watching the first series, and writing their own stories, and tech to match their beliefs.

I think that is the main point of all complaining.

Maybe, just maybe, there is a group of people who have never written fan fiction or even read any of the tech manuals, and they judged this movie as a movie and thought it was a bad movie.

Nah, I'm just a figment of your imagination.

 

[Silent_Bob]

I am 26, I spent 15 dollars on the IMAX film last night. I had a hard time with this movie. I felt that it didn't give any of the lessons, or teach me anything about humanity as Treks of the past have. That to me was the most important part of Star Trek. Here I just didn't feel it.
I liked the opening scence with Kirk being born, I felt something there.
I like Mc Coy, like the pretty spaceships, and effects.
I didn't like the overall story, because it really streched it. I didn't feel the miner Nero's anger toward Spock, I didn't understand why Spock lauched Kirk onto the ice world, and why he just happend to bump into old Spock. Why didn't he land a mile to the east, or 3000 miles to the west. Or while he was asleep. It didn't make any sense, how Spock said Kirk you have to take command and stop Nero, but I can't help because i'll meet myself and that'll screw things up. Then they bump into Scotty hanging out in a boiler room, old Spock teaches him somthing he will invent, because it doesn't matter it seems, then the beam themselves into the water pipe? Kirk has to push the open water pipe button to get him out...? Mmm...ok. Beamed real far, they are back....

Its an Abrams film, its not meant to make sense.

Nero then after 25 years of hanging out doing nothing, is defeated. And old Spock decides to say hey young Spock good job, bro.
End of the film.

It felt like Trek at some parts, mostly between the McCoy and Kirk scenes which were dead on I felt for McCoy who is always my favorite. Didn't like the plot device where he snuck Kirk on with the disease. Like nobody would check who he bringing aboard. McCoy says he's the CMO so the guard believes him and just lets him walk aboard?

McCoy said he was Kirks attending physician, not CMO, so that parts ok. At the time they were in a hurry to get the cadets on board, because as everyone knows the best people to crew a flagship are inexperienced Cadets, so they probably didnt spend too much time checking for stowaways.

I'm sorta all over the place with this, but thats how my head felt watching this film. Like what the hell is going on? I didn't understand why Pike made Kirk first officer. I mean if I was Lt. Bill in the hydoponics and that little thug

Not to mention a sex pest too

was made captain over me i'd be pissed, and I'd be pissed that the others followed that little punk's orders. He's a cadet! I suppose they were Pike's orders so, that was ok for sorta. Why he gave them I have no idea..what's the history between Kirk and Pike, why in a 2 min talk in a bar does he decide, ya kno what my dad was a soldier, I wanna be one to. Is there something I don't know about thier relationship?

I think the whole looking wistfully up at the uncompleted Enterprise was supposed to convey that Kirk had been debating whether or not to join Starfleet for sometime. Although it wasnt done very well, so its no wonder that most assume he signed up just because of a five minute conversation with a stranger, after receiving a head injury.

It makes me love the original Gene Roddenberry/Rick Berman trek so much more. It gave me hope that humanity would be better than it is now. Something I totally didn't feel when Kirk decides to just kill Nero when it looks like he was gonna die anyway...

Finally Kirk saves the world. Let's just promote him to oh i don't kno acting Ensign....no...let's just go ahead and make him captain....not when's he's gone school. Not in a few years. Right now. (talk about and insurance risk for Geico on the Enterprise.)

See Cadet comment above. The best person to captain the Federation flagship is of course an inexperienced sex pest. Its why the HMS Ark Royal is currently captained by a 19 year old Chav.

It really made me leaving the theatre thinking huh...so that's it....why....ok..and then being sorta sad.

Join the club. We grieve with thee.

 

[Borgminister]

I liked the opening scence with Kirk being born, I felt something there.

Thank God. Nothing for Spock's loss of his mother and home planet?

I didn't understand why Spock lauched Kirk onto the ice world, and why he just happend to bump into old Spock.

None of the other movies ever took license, did they?

As for launching Kirk onto the ice world--it was so he wouldn't be continuously disruptive on board the Enterprise...

Why didn't he land a mile to the east, or 3000 miles to the west. Or while he was asleep.

The landing site was probably approximated so that a rescue team would get there... eventually (13 km).

It didn't make any sense, how Spock said Kirk you have to take command and stop Nero, but I can't help because i'll meet myself and that'll screw things up. Then they bump into Scotty hanging out in a boiler room, old Spock teaches him somthing he will invent, because it doesn't matter it seems, then the beam themselves into the water pipe? Kirk has to push the open water pipe button to get him out...? Mmm...ok. Beamed real far, they are back....

I see nothing confusing about any of this... perhaps a second viewing is in order?

Nero then after 25 years of hanging out doing nothing, is defeated. And old Spock decides to say hey young Spock good job, bro.
End of the film.

The 25 year thing bothered me too--big hole in the story. Probably should've worked around that better.

It felt like Trek at some parts, mostly between the McCoy and Kirk scenes which were dead on

Agreed.

I didn't understand why Pike made Kirk first officer.

Let's see... he realized what was happening and convinced Pike and Spock that the Romulans were lying in wait--and he was going to the other ship. Maybe he felt Spock and Kirk had a kind of working relationship.... I didn't feel it was that far-fetched given the flow of the movie.

I mean if I was Lt. Bill in the hydoponics and that little thug was made captain over me i'd be pissed, and I'd be pissed that the others followed that little punk's orders. He's a cadet!

He just saved their asses from obliteration for crying out loud. There is a dynamic at work here...

I suppose they were Pike's orders so, that was ok for sorta. Why he gave them I have no idea..what's the history between Kirk and Pike, why in a 2 min talk in a bar does he decide, ya kno what my dad was a soldier, I wanna be one to. Is there something I don't know about thier relationship?

Again, he is the one who manages to put 2 and 2 together, has a unique past with the "lightning storm in space", and he is a wunderkind of sorts, just lost in direction. Now he's finding it. Plus, maybe Pike thought under the circumstances and given his history Kirk is the best man for the job.

It makes me love the original Gene Roddenberry/Rick Berman trek so much more.

Brain and brain, what is brain? (A "classic" TOS episode that really made you think)

It gave me hope that humanity would be better than it is now. Something I totally didn't feel when Kirk decides to just kill Nero when it looks like he was gonna die anyway...

I... have had enough... of YOU! (Shatnerkirk just before killing a stubborn Klingon)

Finally Kirk saves the world. Let's just promote him to oh i don't kno acting Ensign....no...let's just go ahead and make him captain....not when's he's done school. Not in a few years. Right now. (talk about and insurance risk for Geico on the Enterprise.)

At least they didn't have to warehouse any whales...

Um... he did 3 years... didn't he? Kirk's not a pencil pusher, he's an iconic hero. Why don't you treat him as such... Leaps of logic are what we make for any of our favorite shows or movies.

It really made me leaving the theatre thinking huh...so that's it....why....ok..and then being sorta sad.

Well there are always the new novels..

Enjoy, and thanks for your financial support of the movie. I sincerely hope the next one is more to your liking...

Join the club. We grieve with thee.

In my case, those tears are of unvarnished joy...

 

[Feofilakt]

Ok, we need a reality check.

If this movie is making so much money, why would they change the formula? I read a lot of people stating "Oh, well, the second movie should be more intellectual now that they have the action out of the way". Wrong, incorrect. The second movie will very likely be along the lines of the first, especially with JJ at the helm. There is no logical reason why they would change an apparently winning formula. None.

So can we please just realize this probable truth? JJ and crew are not going to make the movie more cerebral or sophisticated because they have been rewarded for the opposite.

 

[Borgminister]

JJ and crew are not going to make the movie more cerebral or sophisticated because they have been rewarded for the opposite.

No, they won't make a boring and pedantic movie, that's true... but now that the introductions have been dispensed with in a rousing adventure in space, that is time that will be spent on a story with a bit more depth, I'm thinking.

Go JJ!

 

[Feofilakt]

JJ and crew are not going to make the movie more cerebral or sophisticated because they have been rewarded for the opposite.

No, they won't make a boring and pedantic movie, that's true... but now that the introductions have been dispensed with in a rousing adventure in space, that is time that will be spent on a story with a bit more depth, I'm thinking.

Go JJ!

I wouldn't be so sure, due to the box office take. If the margins end up being slim, yeah, they are going to try and rethink things. If it ends up being a massive success like it looks it will be, do not expect anything different. Your faith in JJ changing the depth of the sequel is likely misplaced and just that, faith. Any consideration of the facts and previous history of film would suggest that a successful formula is utilized until the profit margin slims up some, and then we have a change in formula.

 

[barnaclelapse]

See, now this is how you do it. The difference between a Gep Malakai negative review and someone like Captain Robert April just being pissy and condescending is like night and day!

Absolutely. I don't completely agree with the review, but I definitely see where he's coming from and appreciate the effort to explain his opinions, rather than just running around with his arms flailing like a midget with a serious head injury.

 

[Borgminister]

JJ and crew are not going to make the movie more cerebral or sophisticated because they have been rewarded for the opposite.

No, they won't make a boring and pedantic movie, that's true... but now that the introductions have been dispensed with in a rousing adventure in space, that is time that will be spent on a story with a bit more depth, I'm thinking.

Go JJ!

I wouldn't be so sure, due to the box office take. If the margins end up being slim, yeah, they are going to try and rethink things. If it ends up being a massive success like it looks it will be, do not expect anything different. Your faith in JJ changing the depth of the sequel is likely misplaced and just that, faith. Any consideration of the facts and previous history of film would suggest that a successful formula is utilized until the profit margin slims up some, and then we have a change in formula.

Dude, I've got faith... faith of the heart...

Aren't they bringing in another writer to join Orci and Kurzman? A Lost scribe? Talk about depth...

Again, you are missing the time spent on character introductions, which was expertly spent, but took away from a more rewarding story per se.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I felt that it didn't give any of the lessons, or teach me anything about humanity as Treks of the past have. That to me was the most important part of Star Trek. Here I just didn't feel it.

That is one of the main elements of Trek, but it varies, and it doesn't guarantee a good episode or film. For instance, INS had those elements. NEM had them even moreso.

I didn't feel the miner Nero's anger toward Spock, I didn't understand why Spock lauched Kirk onto the ice world, and why he just happend to bump into old Spock.

I don't think anyone honestly did. Nero is a two-dimensional villain. I actually think Shinzon was a far more interesting character.

It felt like Trek at some parts, mostly between the McCoy and Kirk scenes which were dead on I felt for McCoy who is always my favorite. Didn't like the plot device where he snuck Kirk on with the disease. Like nobody would check who he bringing aboard. McCoy says he's the CMO so the guard believes him and just lets him walk aboard?

I agree the McCoy portrayal was good. I didn't have a problem with him sneaking Kirk in. It was a classic McCoy-type move, the dialog was right on. That's exactly what McCoy would do, he'd use his medical seniority. I especially like when he retorts back to the officer, can't remember the exact wording, "At ease yourself."

I didn't understand why Pike made Kirk first officer. Why he gave them I have no idea..what's the history between Kirk and Pike, why in a 2 min talk in a bar does he decide, ya kno what my dad was a soldier, I wanna be one to. Is there something I don't know about thier relationship?

Another thin thread in this film, but it's evident that Pike knew Kirk's father, has been watching Kirk for years, etc. They really should have strengthened it with an earlier scene - Pike looking in on Kirk as a child. The only way it makes sense to me is that Kirk is Pike's prodigy.

Something I totally didn't feel when Kirk decides to just kill Nero when it looks like he was gonna die anyway...

Another poorly explained situation in the film. Some have said the Narada and the science vessel could go through black holes, so that Kirk was actually preventing Nero's escape. But it sure looked to me that the Narada was breaking up in the second black hole.

Bottom line to me is: I honestly think the acting was pretty good, the characterizations were fun. But the plot, well, you could poke a black hole through it.

 

[Feofilakt]

No, they won't make a boring and pedantic movie, that's true... but now that the introductions have been dispensed with in a rousing adventure in space, that is time that will be spent on a story with a bit more depth, I'm thinking.

Go JJ!

I wouldn't be so sure, due to the box office take. If the margins end up being slim, yeah, they are going to try and rethink things. If it ends up being a massive success like it looks it will be, do not expect anything different. Your faith in JJ changing the depth of the sequel is likely misplaced and just that, faith. Any consideration of the facts and previous history of film would suggest that a successful formula is utilized until the profit margin slims up some, and then we have a change in formula.

Dude, I've got faith... faith of the heart...

Aren't they bringing in another writer to join Orci and Kurzman? A Lost scribe? Talk about depth...

Again, you are missing the time spent on character introductions, which was expertly spent, but took away from a more rewarding story per se.

Yeah, human faith is a dangerous and often detrimental force. I don't like it, and I would prefer people use their heads and not their hearts to make decisions.

That being said, they wasted a lot of time on a lot of different things in the movie. The pace was intentional, as the movie was not built to withstand even a modicum of scrutiny. Why? Because it is a popcorn action film and made for action and cheap thrills. Does it work? Not on I, but I appear to be in the minority. Most people seem very pleased with this action flick. However, and you have not yet addressed this, why would they change an wildly successful formula? They have the majority, and the box office takes to prove it, why would they make anything different? Time spent on character introductions could very well be spent on, I don't know, action sequences or some small service to the character interaction. I don't see the overall structure of the movie changing very much.

 

[Borgminister]

That being said, they wasted a lot of time on a lot of different things in the movie. The pace was intentional, as the movie was not built to withstand even a modicum of scrutiny.

Neither were the other films if you really, really want to nitpick.

I don't see the overall structure of the movie changing very much.

These guys have resurrected a moribund franchise--no small accomplishment, given all the logistics involved.

Like Pike said, "I dare you to do better".

Once more, I think that JJ & company have proven they listen to mainstream fans and will take into account input from them in selecting the next story, which will be free of introductions, and go right from "buckle up"...

It comes down to one thing... "I LIKE THIS SHIP! IT'S EXCITING!"

 

[Feofilakt]

Once more, I think that JJ & company have proven they listen to mainstream fans and will take into account input from them in selecting the next story, which will be free of introductions, and go right from "buckle up"...

It comes down to one thing... "I LIKE THIS SHIP! IT'S EXCITING!"

Which more or less affirms my point it will be more of the same