Spock Creating the Kobayashi Maru: Not in the OSverse!

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Otherwise the dialogue in TWOK would have been a whole lot different.

Spock: "I never took the Kobayashi Maru test, I wrote the damned thing. But that's besides the point right now. I have been and ever shall be..."

Kirk: "Yeah, yeah. That's what I liked about you Spock, always reminding me that every cloud has a silver lining. I still haven't forgiven you for that tribunal you pointy eared bastard."

 

[Kpnuts]

What's your point?

 

[Admiral Bear]

I'd have preferred You pointy eared, green hobgoblin, but yes, I found Spock having written the Kobayashi Maru test in NU-Trek as a little strange.

Did Starfleet cadets not face a no win scenario test before Spock graduated?

 

[Classic Fan]

LOL.

on a serious note though, maybe in the original timeline, Kirk didnt know Spock programmed the scenario. And Spock being Spock, never told him because Kirk never asked him about it.

I'd have preferred You pointy eared, green hobgoblin, but yes, I found Spock having written the Kobayashi Maru test in NU-Trek as a little strange.

Did Starfleet cadets not face a no win scenario test before Spock graduated?

Maybe they did, but maybe Spock worked with the computer programmers to update the system and its features/parameters and the 'no win' scenario application, then Kirk came along.

 

[Falconfire]

I'd have preferred You pointy eared, green hobgoblin, but yes, I found Spock having written the Kobayashi Maru test in NU-Trek as a little strange.

Did Starfleet cadets not face a no win scenario test before Spock graduated?

I dont see how its strange. Its a very vulcan look on things, while he may have used Kirks father as the example at the trial, the idea of a no-win scenario is VERY foreign to humans, even in our time.

As for did they not face it prior? Obviously yes, as Spock even in the old timeline graduated before everyone else.

 

[David cgc]

Well, of course he didn't. One, Kirk joined Starfleet four years earlier in the Prime-verse, and Spock had only been overseeing the Kobayashi Maru test for the past three years. Kirk should've graduated the year before he joined in the Nero-verse, so he never would've taken Spock's version. And Spock wouldn't have taken the assignment at the Academy anyway, since in the Prime-verse, he was on the already-completed Enterprise with Pike.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I don't get it, the timeline is different, things have occured in different time scales and on different stardates in this new timeline.

So what's the problem again?

 

[CaptainJon]

I think Spock could've written it in the original universe. Let's not forget, in the original universe, he was aboard the Enterprise with Pike long before the second pilot. He could've done it. Besides, who's to say he didn't write it and just didn't start to oversee it until the last 3 years?

Besides, if Spock hadn't written it in the new movie, there wouldn't have been much reason for him to be pissed at Kirk and they would've have clashed from the beginning. Kirk insulted Spock.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I've checked all of the refences to the Kobayashi Maru test in TWoK and I could see nothing to suggest that the events in this film could not have been the way it happened in the OS-universe.

By looking at the dialog, I don't really see a problem with Spock NOT mentioning that he wrote that particular test that Kirk took. Nothing said in TWoK would preclude the fact that Spock wrote it, not even the dialog in Spock's death scene (the scene the OP pointed out). He would have no reason in that scene to say that he created it, and in fact he may have never taken it because he wrote the program.

In fact it seems to me that the annoyance exhibited by Spock in TWoK relative to Kirk's taking of the test as a cadet makes quite a bit of sense when this new information is taken into account. I think this film's version fits in very well with what we were told in TWoK.

Here is the dialog:

Kirk and Spock immediately after the test:

KIRK: Aren't you dead? I assume you are loitering here to learn what efficiency rating I plan to give your cadets.
SPOCK: I am understandably curious.
KIRK: They destroyed the simulator room and you with it.
SPOCK: The Kobayashi Maru scenario frequently wreaks havoc with students and equipment. As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique?
KIRK: It had the virtue of never having been tried.

​

Kirk and Saavik in the Turbolift (Spock not Present):

SAAVIK: Hold please! ...Thank you, sir.
KIRK: Lieutenant, are you wearing your hair differently?
SAAVIK: It is still regulation, Admiral. ...May I speak, sir?
KIRK: Self-expression doesn't seem to be one of your problems. ...You're bothered by your performance on the Kobayashi Maru.
SAAVIK: I failed to resolve the situation.
KIRK: There is no correct resolution. It's a test of character.
SAAVIK: May I ask how you dealt with the test?
KIRK: You may ask. ...That's a little joke.
SAAVIK: Humour. It is a difficult concept. ...It is not logical.
KIRK: We learn by doing.

​

In the Genesis Cave (Spock not present):

SAAVIK: Sir, may I ask you a question?
KIRK: What's on your mind, Lieutenant?
SAAVIK: The Kobayashi Maru, sir.
KIRK: Are you asking me if we are playing out that scenario now?
SAAVIK: On the test, sir, will you tell me what you did? I would really like to know.
McCOY: Lieutenant, you are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no-win scenario.
SAAVIK: How?
KIRK: I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship.
SAAVIK: What?
DAVID: He cheated!
KIRK: I changed the conditions of the test. I got a commendation for original thinking. ...I don't like to lose.
SAAVIK: Then you never faced that situation, ...faced death.
KIRK: I don't believe in a no-win scenario. ...Kirk to Spock. It's two hours. Are you about ready?

​

Kirk and Spock in Engineering (Spock death scene):

SPOCK: Don't grieve, Admiral, ...it is logical. The needs of the many ...outweigh
KIRK: ...the needs of the few.
SPOCK: Or the one. ... I never took the Kobayashi Maru test ...until now. What do you think of my solution?
KIRK: Spock!
SPOCK: I have been ...and always shall be ...your friend. ...Live long ...and prosper.
KIRK: No!
​

 

[ALF]

This thread needs pictures or something.

 

[shakov]

Was there anything on screen that would rule against Spock having designed the test? Does this diminish ones enjoyment of the movie?
I think not.
Trek is dead, long live nuTrek

 

[Bobatiel]

Otherwise the dialogue in TWOK would have been a whole lot different.

Spock: "I never took the Kobayashi Maru test, I wrote the damned thing. ..."

Not if it was already common knowledge to Kirk.

 

[pookha]

I'd have preferred You pointy eared, green hobgoblin, but yes, I found Spock having written the Kobayashi Maru test in NU-Trek as a little strange.

Did Starfleet cadets not face a no win scenario test before Spock graduated?

they could have but it could have been based on a different scenario.
really that spock wrote a scenario may explain why he was able not to take it even though he had to go through command training to be first officer and later captain.

 

[USS Triumphant]

The dialog in the new movie does not say that Spock designed the test, it says that he is the one who has programmed the scenario for the last few years.

Programming is not design. The lessons that the scenario was designed to teach, and even the general parameters of the test itself, may have been the brainchild of some Academy admiral - and those were given over to programmers to do the grunt work of actually making it work. And Spock just happens to be the one who has implemented whatever tweaks that admiral (or whomever) has come up with for the last few years.

Spock didn't invent the Kobayashi Maru. He's a code monkey. He didn't like Kirk beating the test both on principle and because it made his code tweaking look bad - like it may have been to blame.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^Yes -- that's what I got out of it.

Spock was not the one who invented the entire idea of the Kobayashi Maru test, but he was the one who programmed the version that Kirk took.

...and like I said in my post above, I think it fits in nicely with what were were told in TWoK, especially the slight annoyance Spock exhibited when recounting the fact that Kirk beat it.

 

[DarthAkuma]

No where in the movie does it say Spock "created" the test. It just says Spock "programmed the test the last four years." Is it possible the test existed before Spock and he was just giving it updates?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Spock didn't invent the Kobayashi Maru. He's a code monkey. He didn't like Kirk beating the test both on principle and because it made his code tweaking look bad - like it may have been to blame.

Yep, Spock left a pretty obvious security vulnerability somewhere in the thing if an undergraduate hotdog like Kirk could break it that easily.

 

[Jedi Marso]

One must also assume that the curriculum at SA evolved over time. Spock may have never taken the test either because he never attended command school (he was a blue tunic, and didn't take over as XO until after Gary Mitchell perished) or because the KM test didn't exist back then.

At some point, someone came up with the notion of presenting command school cadets with a no-win simulation to measure how they would react in the face of a situation that couldn't be resolved in a survivable manner no matter what action was taken. Old school officers Like Pike and April probably never took the test either.

I don't recall the KM scenario ever being mentioned in TNG. It's possible that the test was later dropped for one reason or another. Policies and leadership change over time, and the curriculum continues to evolve.

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't recall the KM scenario ever being mentioned in TNG. It's possible that the test was later dropped for one reason or another. Policies and leadership change over time, and the curriculum continues to evolve.

True, but we did see Troi take that holodeck command exam that one time. Not the Kobayashi Maru, but close enough.

Curriculums change depending on who's in charge. The Kobayashi Maru could simply have been Starfleet's version of No Child Left Behind.

 

[Classic Fan]

^
^^Yes -- that's what I got out of it.

Spock was not the one who invented the entire idea of the Kobayashi Maru test, but he was the one who programmed the version that Kirk took.

...and like I said in my post above, I think it fits in nicely with what were were told in TWoK.

Same, thats what i kinda said in my reply.

It does fit in nicely with the TWOK dialog. Makes sense, even though the events in this timeline are happneing differently to the original timeline, its still in essnece, the same event.



And also, as i said, Spock never told Kirk he programmed the Kobayashi Maru cos he never asked about it. In the original timeline, Kirk may have never known Spock programmed the simulation codes.