Lightning Storm? What Lightning Storm? [SPOILER ALERT!]

[TJ Sinclair]

Here's something I didn't really notice until my third viewing of Star Trek. When Chekov is giving his mission report, he mentions a report of a "lightning storm in space" near Vulcan. This same type of anomaly was reported by the USS Kelvin on the day of Kirk's birth, and so Kirk knows the Enterprise is warping into a trap.

The question is...why was there a "lightning storm" at Vulcan. We know that specific anomaly was actually the "window in spacetime" that was opened by the red matter singularity which deposited Nero and the Narada in 2233. It wasn't a typical effect of the Narada's propulsion or weapons systems, so why did it appear at Vulcan before the singularity was created there?

Two possibilities present themselves: a) the "lightning storm" reported by Vulcan was the "window" which Spock's ship passed through right before Nero captured him, or b) Nero tested the red matter device near Vulcan before beginning his assault on the planet itself.

But are either of those really what the film implies? I don't see it. It seems like the writers simply forgot that the "lightning storm" wasn't a typical event associated with Nero's attacks, or they didn't care, because without the reported "storm," Kirk wouldn't have known they were going to come under fire from Romulans.

Now, as I said, this only occurred to me on the third viewing. As far as plot-related nitpicks go, that's pretty good. It wasn't obvious (to me) from the first time. Still... I wish I'd never noticed it at all. :-\

What do you think?

 

[Gagarin]

Here's something I didn't really notice until my third viewing of Star Trek. When Chekov is giving his mission report, he mentions a report of a "lightning storm in space" near Vulcan. This same type of anomaly was reported by the USS Kelvin on the day of Kirk's birth, and so Kirk knows the Enterprise is warping into a trap.

The question is...why was there a "lightning storm" at Vulcan. We know that specific anomaly was actually the "window in spacetime" that was opened by the red matter singularity which deposited Nero and the Narada in 2233. It wasn't a typical effect of the Narada's propulsion or weapons systems, so why did it appear at Vulcan before the singularity was created there?

Two possibilities present themselves: a) the "lightning storm" reported by Vulcan was the "window" which Spock's ship passed through right before Nero captured him, or b) Nero tested the red matter device near Vulcan before beginning his assault on the planet itself.

But are either of those really what the film implies? I don't see it. It seems like the writers simply forgot that the "lightning storm" wasn't a typical event associated with Nero's attacks, or they didn't care, because without the reported "storm," Kirk wouldn't have known they were going to come under fire from Romulans.

Now, as I said, this only occurred to me on the third viewing. As far as plot-related nitpicks go, that's pretty good. It wasn't obvious (to me) from the first time. Still... I wish I'd never noticed it at all. :-\

What do you think?

You're.... you're right!

 

[Flake]

Yup, add this one to the list of plot holes

I can't think of an explanation at the moment! AHH! Ok, hows this... Nero used red matter to destroy an orbiting Vulcan fleet?

 

[TJ Sinclair]

Yup, add this one to the list of plot holes

I can't think of an explanation at the moment! AHH! Ok, hows this... Nero used red matter to destroy an orbiting Vulcan fleet?

Impossible. If that were the case, the distress call Earth received would have included information on an attack. All they knew at the time was they were "experiencing seismic activity," and there was a "lightning storm in space." If Nero had attacked a Vulcan fleet, or presumably any known ships in the system, Vulcan would have known, and relayed the information to Starfleet. As far as anyone in the Fleet knew when they left Earth, Vulcan was undergoing some type of natural disaster.

 

[Flake]

Yup, add this one to the list of plot holes

I can't think of an explanation at the moment! AHH! Ok, hows this... Nero used red matter to destroy an orbiting Vulcan fleet?

Impossible. If that were the case, the distress call Earth received would have included information on an attack. All they knew at the time was they were "experiencing seismic activity," and there was a "lightning storm in space." If Nero had attacked a Vulcan fleet, or presumably any known ships in the system, Vulcan would have known, and relayed the information to Starfleet. As far as anyone in the Fleet knew when they left Earth, Vulcan was undergoing some type of natural disaster.

Yes, absolutley right.

So, its a plot hole. One of many.

The only other way I can think of is that the Narada decided to use red matter to create a blackhole/wormhole and get to Vulcan undetected?!

I read on another site in an article where Kurtzman/Orci talked about plot holes that the Narada was designed to traverse black holes. I will find this quote asap.

 

[Flake]

Why did Kirk feel the need to fire all weapons at a doomed ship? After all, Nero’s vessel was mere seconds away from being crushed inside the black hole. Not true, said the Trek scribes – Nero’s ship was built to travel through black holes, so if Kirk hadn’t done anything, the bad guys would have slipped away and emerged god knows where (and when) ready to do more evil.

From: http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/trek-scribes-speak-complaints-addressed/#more-1201

So perhaps the Narada made a black/wormhole to get to Vulcan, infact they must have because that explains the lightning storm phenomenon.

 

[David cgc]

a) the "lightning storm" reported by Vulcan was the "window" which Spock's ship passed through right before Nero captured him

That's the one.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

And yet, the film makes no reference to any special type of propulsion for the Narada, and in fact clearly indicates it travels by conventional warp drive (or the Romulan AQS variant). They got pulled into the singularity, and emerged in 2233. The ship wasn't designed to time travel through black holes.

Now, here is a possibility... if the Narada operates on an Artificial Quantum Singularity drive as most other 24th century Romulan ships do, then perhaps the interaction of the AQS with the red matter or the red matter singularity altered its functionality, creating the lightning storm effect whenever the drive was engaged for long periods.

We know it couldn't be every time the ship went to warp, because there was no lightning storm during Nero's pursuit of Young Spock before the red matter detonated.

But there might be a reasonable explanation in there somewhere.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

a) the "lightning storm" reported by Vulcan was the "window" which Spock's ship passed through right before Nero captured him

That's the one.

Given what's presented in the film, this is probably the simplest answer. Spock's emergence into 2258 must have been close enough to Vulcan in order for the anomaly to be detected. But...really? It seems way too convenient.

Unless, in attempting to escape the singularity in 2387, Spock set course for Vulcan, and just emerged much further along that course....

 

[Flake]

This movie is full of conveniences & plot holes. From a Trek Tech perspective its total blasphemy. Character moments and dialogue are excellent, but plot-holes, conveniences and tech issues are horrific.

Luckily these issues will go over the heads of 98% of people who watch the movie

I was entertained and enjoyed the movie, so its a job well done in that department. Infact I was enjoying it so much that I missed most of the plot holes!

 

[TJ Sinclair]

This movie is full of conveniences & plot holes. From a Trek Tech perspective its total blasphemy. Character moments and dialogue are excellent, but plot-holes, conveniences and tech issues are horrific.

Luckily these issues will go over the heads of 98% of people who watch the movie

I was entertained and enjoyed the movie, so its a job well done in that department. Infact I was enjoying it so much that I missed most of the plot holes!

Me too, honestly. Well, beyond the utterly simplistic understanding of black holes and supernovae, but those aren't actually "plot" holes. But then... I wasn't expecting realistic or even Trek-realistic science and tech from JJ Abrams and the writers of Transformers.

We can nitpick the science and plot all we want, and believe me, I will eventually. But in the important ways, the movie hit the right notes. The sense of optimism is still there. Had that been missing, or diluted into the "gritty nihilism" so prevalent in media today, it wouldn't have worked. But despite the simplistic plot and silly science, it still is Star Trek. And that's what counts. :-)

 

[Flake]

I think it would be a good idea to have the Okudas to help the team out for XII

"Sorry JJ, you can't beam in when the shields are up"

"Sorry JJ, you can't engage warp drive in the atmosphere!"

"Sorry JJ, you can't have first contact with the BORG they are in system J-25!"

"Sorry JJ, Khan didn't have photon torpedos on his 20th century sleeper ship"

Endless list :P

 

[Crazy Eddie]

This movie is full of conveniences & plot holes. From a Trek Tech perspective its total blasphemy. Character moments and dialogue are excellent, but plot-holes, conveniences and tech issues are horrific.

Dude, Star Trek has always been riddled with technical and scientific plot holes. WE'RE the ones who are always plugging them, remember?

Better for the writers to focus on the stuff that makes the show fun--character moments, dramatic elements, suspense, good lines, etc--and leave the nitpicky detail work to all us nerds. That's something I appreciated about NuBSG, not clogging the dramatic gears with unnecessary technobabble, with the only difference being nobody cares enough about BSG to plug its technological plotholes. Star Trek is different; if JJ Abrams came out with a trek production that was scientifically and technologically flawless, we would probably all be bored to tears because we would have nothing left to figure out (besides, the movie probably would have been boring in that case).

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I think it would be a good idea to have the Okudas to help the team out for XII

"Sorry JJ, you can't beam in when the shields are up"

"Sorry JJ, you can't engage warp drive in the atmosphere!"

"Sorry JJ, you can't have first contact with the BORG they are in system J-25!"

"Sorry JJ, Khan didn't have photon torpedos on his 20th century sleeper ship"

Endless list :P

And then at some point JJ pulls a glock thunders in clipped Klingonese "Say 'canon' again! Say 'canon' again I dare you I double dare you motherf**er say 'canon' one more time!"

 

[miraclefan]

Maybe they should drop the current writers, and get new ones for the sequal.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Nah. They did a pretty decent job on this one for the amount of movie they tried to squeeze into two hours. They did have a few glaring plotholes, but they hit the right notes where it counted and they deserve credit for this.

Could they benefit from some technical editing by a science advisor? Absolutely, but that's a matter of VFX and script kewlness, which is alot easier to do than character development and compelling drama.

 

[Falconfire]

I think it would be a good idea to have the Okudas to help the team out for XII

"Sorry JJ, you can't beam in when the shields are up"

"Sorry JJ, you can't engage warp drive in the atmosphere!"

"Sorry JJ, you can't have first contact with the BORG they are in system J-25!"

"Sorry JJ, Khan didn't have photon torpedos on his 20th century sleeper ship"

Endless list :P

Funny enough Star Trek IV violates one of those up there right off the bat.

The BoP engaged warp just after beaming up George and Gracie right in the Earth atmo.

 

[Flake]

I think it would be a good idea to have the Okudas to help the team out for XII

"Sorry JJ, you can't beam in when the shields are up"

"Sorry JJ, you can't engage warp drive in the atmosphere!"

"Sorry JJ, you can't have first contact with the BORG they are in system J-25!"

"Sorry JJ, Khan didn't have photon torpedos on his 20th century sleeper ship"

Endless list :P

Funny enough Star Trek IV violates one of those up there right off the bat.

The BoP engaged warp just after beaming up George and Gracie right in the Earth atmo.

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. :P

 

[Flake]

I can forgive everything they have done on this occasion, however I expect them to clean up their act a bit on Trek XII.

 

[TJ Sinclair]

Don't.