What do you diehard TOS fans think of the new movie?

[commodore64]

I agree with Brutal Strudel and T'Bonz to a certain degree. I love TOS. Love. Spock made me become interested in science fiction and writing. To see a new Spock produced strange emotions -- both joyous and oddly sad.

I think this "reboot" works since our beloved Trek is still in tact. I like some characters a lot more than I did before, like Bones. And I like some characters a lot less, like Spock. I think the plot was terrible and bordered on silly, but when it comes right down to it, the movie was fun and entertaining. It brings back the concept of Trek, where it's like the Wild West. And it introduces a whole new set of fans to Star Trek.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Brutal Strudel sez, "And there are people who will try to argue that his becoming capatin right out of the box makes sense, an argument I won't even enter into because it's just nuts."

But don't you see, in an alternate universe, there's a different Kirk, with a different history, who became a captain when he was much older, after much more experience and education, and was eventually important to alternate future history that will now never happen. Therefore, it's important that this Kirk immediately be made a captain!

Also, in a different universe I'm the President of the United States and I'm married to Angelina Jolie. As soon as I inform the White House and Angelina of these facts, I expect to be proclaimed both President and Mr. Jolie.

Thank you, Mr. President. And I thought I was brutal.

 

[ST-One]

But I'll attribute that more to something of an inevitability rather than concious thought on their part.

Yeah... now, this makes ... sense...

 

[Warped9]

But I'll attribute that more to something of an inevitability rather than concious thought on their part.

Yeah... now, this makes ... sense...

No apologies. After what I've seen I don't give them credit for thinking much of anything through.

 

[ST-One]

But I'll attribute that more to something of an inevitability rather than concious thought on their part.

Yeah... now, this makes ... sense...

No apologies. After what I've seen I don't give them credit for thinking much of anything through.

Okay...

 

[Noname Given]

You know as much as I disliked this film I can easily see where a lot of things could have been fixed to get a better film. One of the biggest fixes would have been to have a genuinely interesting villian, someone that actually wasn't just a baddy yet someone with nuance that you could possibly even sympathize with.

One of the strengths of TWOK is that Khan wasn't just a cliche bad guy. You could actually see his point of view. Nero doesn't really come off that way despite the words he says.

Look I still think Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was the best Star trek film made to date, bar none; but it too has major major plot and science holes you could fly a Starship through:

1) Chekov aboard the U.S. S. Reliant MISTAKES Ceti Alpha V for ceti Alpha VI; and couldn't tell that there was a planet missing from the star system; NOR see the debis that must have been left from the explosion?

2) The Relient's sensor show the planet as unable to support life (and they're only going down to check if the planet MIGHT have a microbe on it; and even been down in full spacesuits - Yet Khan and his people have been living for near 15 years by putting a veil over their mouths and have somehow managed to obtain enough food and water from the destroyed ecosphere. (What? Were the Reliant's senors in that much need of an overhaul; or were Chekov and crew THAT incompotent as to not be able to use/read the senors properly?).

3) In Space Seed all of the survivors in Khan's group were in their early 20ies or 30ies and not all 'Blonde' - YET, 15 years later - the majority look to STILL be twentry-something; and 'Yachim' (who acts like Khan's son; but is older that 15 years); yet, by Khan's OWN words, Lt. Marla McGivers (his wife) was killed by one of the brain slug birthing creatures soon after they arrived - PLUS Ceti Alpha VI exploded 6 months after they were left there. Given all this, do you think any women of Khan's group would have the tim or inclination to get pregnant; or further that with resources so scarce, Kahn would allow an infant to survive at the cost of the colony?).

4) Khan wants Kirk DEAD; yet as he chases Kirk into the Nebula, he only fires ONE tordepo as a 'warning shot' - which Kirk interprets as such when he says "They just don't want us going in there." Also later, we do see that the Reliant does still hav working phasers. My point? If Khan is so vengeful at that point; and is in weapons range (which is shown by his firing of the torpedo); WHY IN HELL wouldn't he let loose a full fire barage as he was chasing the 1701 toward the Nebula. Ye, some real 'superior intellect' displayed there, eh?

But even with all the above; my overall enjoyment of the story and characters as presented in it is not detracted from.

My point, if you really look at the majority of any popular films; you can find stuff to pick apart ad nausem.

The new Star Trek does have a number of plot holes and contrivences done specifically to more the story along and keep it interesting, much like STII:TWoK did; yet it still doesn't detract from my enjoyment of what was untimately a good and entertaining Star Trek film with good characters, and better acting and direction then we've seen in a looong time.

 

[Neopeius]

Look I still think Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was the best Star trek film made to date, bar none; but it too has major major plot and science holes you could fly a Starship through:
.

Don't forget

5) Why didn't the Enterprise simply blow up the Reliant and the Genesis Device? It's not a pile of TNT--it's a sophisticated computer. Just as shooting an atomic bomb breaks the bomb, vaporizing the Genesis Device should have broken it, not set it off.

6) Why the hell did TWOK set up the trend of ships battling at slingshot range with utterly puny weapons? Because it's kewl?

I liked TWOK when I was 11. I hate it today.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

And let's not begin to discuss what it did to Kirk's character. Kirk, the boy who saw members of his family phasered on Tarsus IV and became the man who brought a mountainside down on his best friend on Delta Vega, allowed the woman he seemed to love more deeply than anyone we've seen before or since to die under the wheels of a milk truck and discovered his brother's body on Deneva "never ha[d] faced death."

Oh, and the "positively grim" "stack of books with legs" was now a cheater (ahem, "original thinker") who was never a boy scout.*

I mean, I still dig TWOK but already.

*And before the TrekBBS legal team piles on and points out that the two portrayals aren't mutually exclusive, I'd say that's certainly true but add that they are a little hard to reconcile in the shorthand of drama.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is a movie where an academy graduate--what ought to be an ensign--is given command of the Federation's explictly stated flagship. (And no, I'll never stop bringing that up.) I'll take my over-thinking over the film-makers anti-thinking any day.

Like I said, broad strokes.

Succinctly summarizes all my criticisms.

I was discussing this very thing with guys at work. Pretty much every thing that bothered me in this film could have been fixed with a little rewriting, rather like a number of 3rd season TOS and a lot of TNG episodes.

But ultimately this Kirk has little to no experience between Academy and getting command. It's so ridiculous!

Yet, IIRC, Brutal said he liked the movie.

 

[Kelso]

^ I also liked the movie... but it is pretty damned silly that a freshly minted lieutenant (whose commissioning was tied up in an academic suspension, no less) was promoted to the captaincy of the newest flagship.

That point didn't hurt my enjoyment of the film, as it seems to for others, it just seemed like a lazy way to handle it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ I also liked the movie... but it is pretty damned silly that a freshly minted lieutenant (whose commissioning was tied up in an academic suspension, no less) was promoted to the captaincy of the newest flagship.

That point didn't hurt my enjoyment of the film, as it seems to for others, it just seemed like a lazy way to handle it.

I totally agree, as I said to Brutal up thread (or it might be in another thread).

Movies are often a form a shorthand, with a need to get the characters to a certain point by the the end of two hours. A simple title (five years later...) might have solved the problem, but dampened the "'drama".

The movie isn't perfect, but I had a hell of a good time. The TOS homages were great. The actors did a great job capturing the essence of the characters.(as did the writers) It was a fast moving thrill ride for sure, but thats not a bad thing. Not sure how any one couldn't enjoy the Kelvin sequence. In my opinion it was one of the best parts of the film. A lot of drama and emotion in those few minutes. Made me wish for a Star Trek: Kelvin series.

 

[Amaris]

And let's not begin to discuss what it did to Kirk's character. Kirk, the boy who saw members of his family phasered on Tarsus IV and became the man who brought a mountainside down on his best friend on Delta Vega, allowed the woman he seemed to love more deeply than anyone we've seen before or since to die under the wheels of a milk truck and discovered his brother's body on Deneva "never ha[d] faced death."

Oh, and the "positively grim" "stack of books with legs" was now a cheater (ahem, "original thinker") who was never a boy scout.*

I mean, I still dig TWOK but already.

*And before the TrekBBS legal team piles on and points out that the two portrayals aren't mutually exclusive, I'd say that's certainly true but add that they are a little hard to reconcile in the shorthand of drama.

Wow. You know, I never thought of it that way.


J.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

What is it with people bashing "Insurrection" !!?? it was a good, entertaining movie and it was classic TNG.

Haven't you heard? TNG is now to be forgotten, as is DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. That's the only thing I don't like about the new movie-that those shows are now just shit to everybody.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What is it with people bashing "Insurrection" !!?? it was a good, entertaining movie and it was classic TNG.

Haven't you heard? TNG is now to be forgotten, as is DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. That's the only thing I don't like about the new movie-that those shows are now just shit to everybody.

Nah, Enterprise is the only Trek show thats also part of the "Star Trek" canon.

Hands off DS9, as for TNG annd Voyager "Let them die."

 

[Vonstadt]

I can honestly say I liked the film, however I can also see how it was very much a action flick with SFX fluff. I enjoyed the bones tossed to the old timers like myself and even enjoyed some of the new takes.

Some things as a veteran I was , well I found hard to swallow, was the rapid contrived promotion of Kirk to the rank of captiancy. I wouldve thought that wouldve been done in the sequel where our NEW gang has 'seasoned' somewhat.

The performed fantastically given their age and their training but wow that would be like assigning a newly minted ensign or lieutenant out of the naval academy a flag position on a aircraft carrier.

I did enjoy the chances the story took (i.e. Vulcan) and I will most likely see the sequel (we are sure to get one). However overall I still felt something was missing when you compare it to the depth and feel for me when i comes to Starfleet and the TOS of the Original series (not the TOS films).

I did enjoy the effects (heck armageddon had pretty effects..sillyassed story but pretty effects) but such things should be the icing on the cake, not the thing that i hear most from folks who were leaving the theatrer.

One thing someone earlier here posted stood out for me too and might've been neat, showing the Kelvin bridge as a TOS style bridge and then that encounter leading to the far more advanced looking stuff we see on the new Enterprise (whose design has grown on me and Im a nut for the classic Connie )

All in all a likeable film, different...but likeable. I still very much prefer the old series take on the gang (more so than the TOS films as well) but I had fun watching it.

Vons

Vons

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Hands off DS9, as for TNG annd Voyager "Let them die."

Hee-hee: that's kinda how I feel, too.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

This is a movie where an academy graduate--what ought to be an ensign--is given command of the Federation's explictly stated flagship. (And no, I'll never stop bringing that up.) I'll take my over-thinking over the film-makers anti-thinking any day.

Like I said, broad strokes.

Succinctly summarizes all my criticisms.

I was discussing this very thing with guys at work. Pretty much every thing that bothered me in this film could have been fixed with a little rewriting, rather like a number of 3rd season TOS and a lot of TNG episodes.

But ultimately this Kirk has little to no experience between Academy and getting command. It's so ridiculous!

Yet, IIRC, Brutal said he liked the movie.

You do recall correctly. In all fairness to Warped9, though, I posted this in another thread:

The trekkie in me--the guy who posts here--is much more of a mind with you and Warped9. My posts are largely a way for me to figure why it is I don't loathe this movie.

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

It bothered me that the new film used the alternate timeline plot to bash canon left and right. The actor playing the "new" Spock did a good job, and I liked the film's Captain Pike better than the original Pike.

 

[BillJ]

And there are people who will try to argue that his becoming captain right out of the box makes sense, an argument I won't even enter into because it's just nuts. Oh well, I suppose somewhere out there is someone who will go to the mat that Lost in Space's "The Great Vegetable Rebellion" is an example of quality SF.

The problem is that we don't know exactly what is left of Starfleet. The Enterprise was never able to re-establish contact with the main fleet in the Laurentian system. There may not be many starships left and even fewer command grade officers (we do not know the extent of Pike's injuries).

A stretch... but it works for me.

 

[Vonstadt]

And there are people who will try to argue that his becoming captain right out of the box makes sense, an argument I won't even enter into because it's just nuts. Oh well, I suppose somewhere out there is someone who will go to the mat that Lost in Space's "The Great Vegetable Rebellion" is an example of quality SF.

The problem is that we don't know exactly what is left of Starfleet. The Enterprise was never able to re-establish contact with the main fleet in the Laurentian system. There may not be many starships left and even fewer command grade officers (we do not know the extent of Pike's injuries).

A stretch... but it works for me.

A bit too much of a stretch if you ask me, it's kinda silly. Even an exploration agency such as NASA doesn't do this, if someone wants to argue that Starfleet isn't the military.

I accept it because well that is the canon of the new timeline but come on. Even if there are only a few starships left I am sure there are Lt. Commanders and Commanders aboard those ships that have the experience and time in service and as such have earned the right to such a vaunted position on a starship like the new enterprise.

Obviously Kirk and the gang proved they have the 'stuff' and the potentional but really Starleet would want them to ripen a bit more on the vine. All I kept thinking about was the disaster with Red Squad in DS9's Valiant episode.

*shrugs* I accepted most of the new stuff but that one just seems really silly to me. My wife pointed if the viewer and the fan has to 'work' and stretch to accept a premise...

Then its a poorly written or just plain silly one.

Vons