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What is star trek canon and where is the authorative reference?

So all this talk about canon and fanon, Is there a Star Trek Fanon site?
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
This is a Wiki, thus maintained by its users, the fans.

Yeah but that is for canon, not fanon.

No i think that really would be defined as fanon if its maintained by the fans, wouldn't it? I mean they aim to record all things star trek canon or not so it must include fanon. (ok, one more word that rhymes with canon should make explanations sound completely incomprehensible :lol:). gammon? thats gonna be my next thread. star trek gammon.
 
Me too. Put every explanation into a book and call it canon. Maybe then all this pointless bickering would stop.
Look at the history of the world's major religions -- putting it in a book and calling it canon only creates massive problems, so let's not do that, okay?

Yeah, I don't know about a book, I'd just like to see Paramount think of the fans' obsession to detail as something they can work with, something that improved the end product, instead of an annoyance.
 
In order to be considerable for canon, a new story must respect what is already established. If the store breaks the continuity of the universe, it cannot be considered.
This is not true at all. The first 20 episodes of TOS broke established continuity with each other.

But all episodes and movies are part of the Paramount "Star Trek" canon.

Derivative works, such as fan-films, novels, comics, and Web sites, are non-canon. Facts established in these derivative works need NOT be followed by writers of the actual canon (i.e, films and TV episodes).

The word "canon" applies ONLY to Paramount's writers guidelines for producing future episodes (e.g., "Previous on-screen episodes are part of the canon; comics and novels are not").

If you are NOT currently an employee of Paramount, actively writing the script for the next movie, then the word "canon" means absolutely nothing to you.

Comics and novels can "violate canon" in that they contradict on-screen episodes, but on-screen episodes can NEVER "violate canon" -- they can only "add to the canon." All episodes and films are equally part of the Paramount canon.

Both on-screen episodes and comics and novels can (and have) violate continuity ... but that has nothing to do with the definition of "canon."
 
yes, Garth Rocket post 64 of this thread also introduced the distinction between 'canon' and 'continuity'; that they are different terms often casually interchanged. The point is well made and well worth reiterating i agree.

And i think the last post is a good textbook summary of everything in the thread, although it is intresting that a couple of writers who have posted seem to indicate that pragmatism (which i guess is quite true to life) was the overiding concern a lot of the time (i.e deadlines and the use of 'fanon').

The only moot point for me left i guess are the various onscreen versions of film and tv series as they are edited/extended in various formats as wikipaedia seems to suggest that some of this activity isn't clearly declared as canon or not.

But i think we've mostly covered my question and i'm probably being pedantic (as pedantic as a trekker?) and let me thank everyone again or their great input.
 
Comics and novels can "violate canon" in that they contradict on-screen episodes

No, licensed comics and novels cannot contradict canon. If the author can tweak things so that his or her story point is not actually a violation (ie. Trip returns from the dead in the post-ENT novels), they can sometimes get away with it, but Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, must approve their proposal and completed manuscript.

but on-screen episodes can NEVER "violate canon"

Again, not true. Many canonical episodes have tweaked or overridden previously existing ST canon. The question asked is, "Will changing this improve the story currently being told?" An example is Amanda Grayson, Spock's mother in TOS Season Two. In the first season, Spock is merely said to have a human ancestor. "Journey to Babel" required that this ancestor be his mother.
 
oh yes, i should have included that Paula Block has been mentioned in the thread too.

Thanks for the cool links.
 
Trek is too inconsistent and contradictory to have a canon. Its meaningless ...
Canon is a word and a concept that trek could stand to lose.

Yes, this is where i sort of stood, i mean its a kind of unsubstantiated interpreted dogma sometimes and thats why i didn't really understand why some people were so catagorically sure about canon infringments when using phrases like 'this film is not star trek, it breaks canon; you have betrayed your trekkiedom' as if they had the authority to make that judgement.

Understand, it's all psychology.

Hardcore "trekkies" are people who obsess over the smallest detail concerning the version of the Trek universe they insist on perceiving as "canon". The more accurately and detailed this universe is defined, the more real it becomes (for them, and in product). The more stable, stagnant, and unchanging this universe remains....the more permanent the foundation of episodes, rules, and character traits become....the more consistent this reality becomes, and thus, more easily escaped into by said "trekkie". Within a constuct of their own acceptance and design, they have power over that universe. And, thus, power over their life.

Once you remove the stability of that universe....once you change any detail to any drastic degree, or threaten to rewrite their "permanent foundation"....that is when the conflict occurs for them. You are removing their power. Their control and percieved "ownership" of said universe.

That's why you have these few that lament and wail over the new movie. They are trapped. They cannot accept it into their controlled universe, because of its alien elements (sexuality, emotional flaws, pop culture, etc.), elements that remind them of the real world. For many who require a Trek universe to escape into, these elements could actually be the things they are escaping from. It is not an insult to say that sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll do not mix with Trekkies. The sex part, especially. This is not within their control, thus they shun it.

On the flipside, it is onscreen, stars Leonard Nimoy's Spock, and is from all possible angles, Star Trek.

So, the immediate weapon of "Cannonical Debate" is drawn, and the tantrums begin. Beware these supposed "fans". They do not support Star Trek. They support their personal corporate fantasy world. They support "more of the same" because they require the comfort, the reassurance, the control that this little bubble of fandom has given them their entire life. They do not care for new fans. They care for converting new fans to their perceptions of these fantasy worlds. They long for like-minded company, because there is security within the pack. They long for the pack mentality, because within an emotional furvor, whoever screams the loudest gets the most accolades, and....this is the key here.....the most validation.

If being a hardcore "trekkie" is their life, then maintaining a rigid stance on what they perceive to be Star Trek is the validation of their life.

:techman:

Congratulations! If there were ever to be an award for "Most Erudite Troll Post" this would have to be the winner.
 
Comics and novels can "violate canon" in that they contradict on-screen episodes

No, licensed comics and novels cannot contradict canon. If the author can tweak things so that his or her story point is not actually a violation (ie. Trip returns from the dead in the post-ENT novels), they can sometimes get away with it, but Paula Block, of CBS Consumer Products, must approve their proposal and completed manuscript.
No, I don't mean new comics are allowed to contradict past episodes. You are right; all comics and books must follow canon.

I meant that old comics and books are often contradicted by newer canon episodes. So those older, non-canon stories, are made obsolete by the ongoing canon, thus retroactively violating the canon continuity.

but on-screen episodes can NEVER "violate canon"
Again, not true. Many canonical episodes have tweaked or overridden previously existing ST canon.
Again, you're interchanging the term "canon" with "continuity." Yes, many canon episodes, especially in the first season of TOS, contradict each other. But they are all part of the canon. New episodes can only add to the canon, not violate it. Continuity can be violated, but all episodes -- even the bad ones and those with continuity violations -- are still part of the canon.

In the "Enterprise" episode "Demons," Starfleet Headquarters had the logo for the United Earth Space Probe Agency, not mentioned since TOS episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday." This is an example of continuing both continuity and canon.

The question asked is, "Will changing this improve the story currently being told?" An example is Amanda Grayson, Spock's mother in TOS Season Two. In the first season, Spock is merely said to have a human ancestor. "Journey to Babel" required that this ancestor be his mother.
Changing facts from vague to more specific is neither a continuity violation, nor a canon violation, since both episodes are a part of the canon.

Yes, new canon episodes can contradict facts in previous canon episodes, but these are cases of writing errors (like the comment about Khan living 200 years ago in a DS9 episode) or simply updating or correcting past continuity errors (like interchanging the terms UESPA, Space Central, or Starfleet Command early in TOS).

My point is that Paramount's canon is simply the collection of the episodes and movies, without regard to their content. Continuity and facts in those episodes has been violated, and the canon can violate continuity in non-canon books, but the canon does not violate itself. It is always the canon (continuity errors and all).

It is the opposite of "Star Wars" continuity, where the books and comics are part of the canon, and subsequent movies incorporate story elements from the books, and Lucas is free to violate his own canon by re-making the movies and discarding the original versions (e.g., Greedo shot first). That is a case where canon can violate iteslf.

But that's not how the "Star Trek" canon works. No one's going back and violating the canon (unless you count the new visual effects for the HD TOS DVDs), they're just adding more episodes to the canon.
 
It is the opposite of "Star Wars" continuity, where the books and comics are part of the canon...

It's my understanding that Lucas has said that he wouldn't let facts in a SW licensed product stop him from doing something in a SW movie. Roddenberry often said that "licensed tie-ins do not usually inform the series".

So how are these opposites?

and subsequent movies incorporate story elements from the books
Tiberius (TAS, "Bem"), ShiKahr and Vulcan's Forge (TAS, "Yesteryear"), IKS Klothos (TAS, "The Time Trap"), Hikaru ("The Entropy Effect"), Nyota ("Star Trek II Biographies", "Uhura's Song")... Story elements from non canonical sources, used in canonical ST.
 
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
This is a Wiki, thus maintained by its users, the fans.

Yeah but that is for canon, not fanon.

No i think that really would be defined as fanon if its maintained by the fans, wouldn't it? I mean they aim to record all things star trek canon or not so it must include fanon. (ok, one more word that rhymes with canon should make explanations sound completely incomprehensible :lol:). gammon? thats gonna be my next thread. star trek gammon.

We're trying to be as "canon" as possible over at Memory Alpha - with "canon" being defined as "everything that has been on-screen in an official production, even if there are discontinuities to other 'canon' material". As a Wiki, this goal will probably never be fulfilled to 100%, but if you find something that definitely is "not canon", feel free to point it out or correct it yourself. :)
 
Yeah but that is for canon, not fanon.

No i think that really would be defined as fanon if its maintained by the fans, wouldn't it? I mean they aim to record all things star trek canon or not so it must include fanon. (ok, one more word that rhymes with canon should make explanations sound completely incomprehensible :lol:). gammon? thats gonna be my next thread. star trek gammon.

We're trying to be as "canon" as possible over at Memory Alpha - with "canon" being defined as "everything that has been on-screen in an official production, even if there are discontinuities to other 'canon' material". As a Wiki, this goal will probably never be fulfilled to 100%, but if you find something that definitely is "not canon", feel free to point it out or correct it yourself. :)

cool, thanks for pointing that out. Apologies if i misrepresented you.
 
Me too. Put every explanation into a book and call it canon. Maybe then all this pointless bickering would stop.
Look at the history of the world's major religions -- putting it in a book and calling it canon only creates massive problems, so let's not do that, okay?

Yeah, I don't know about a book, I'd just like to see Paramount think of the fans' obsession to detail as something they can work with, something that improved the end product, instead of an annoyance.

But wait!

If we compile all the canon into a big book, then future script writers can be made to put their hand on it and take the following oath:

"Do you swear to write The Canon, the Whole Canon, and nothing but The Canon, so help you Roddenberry?"
"I do."
"Then you may proceed to write." :D

And there will never be another argument about canon ever again. Peace shall reign throughout Trekdom, and the TOSer will lie down with the TNGer, while the DS9er will frolic in the fields with the VGRer. :techman:

But the Enterpriser will be cast out of paradise, and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth . . . but no one else will care.* :p

*These comments are made with purely humorous intent and no ill-will toward any faction of Trekdom, with the exception of my nemeses, and they know who they are! :devil:
 
Star Trek's canon, if there really is anything official, is set by Paramount and/or those who have the decision making power to shape any/all or part of Star Trek.

It is nice that fans have a strong influence in the matter and have always been considered when new/groundbreaking things happen in the world of Star Trek, just as Gene Roddenberry's opinions were considered in many movies; however, the people who own Star Trek are the canon-setters.

All things considered, you can choose to believe what you want...and that's the beauty of it all!
 
People are getting close -- the only reason CBS/Paramount cares about canon is M-O-N-E-Y. There's always been a big market for Star Trek licensed products, and they wanted some way to keep the books/comics/etc from diluting or constraining the TV/Film products. Since the Trek universe was almost beaten to death, it's now financially advantageous for them to toss the existing canon and start over.

I have no idea if Roddenberry thought "canon" was inherently good, but he certainly was looking for a way to keep Star Trek alive and his pockets full when it went off the air.

That's why it's humorous to see fans drive the concept of canon down to miniscule details (eg ship registration numbers), because if it's not a major plot element, the studio has need to make it canonical.

It's also why franchises like James Bond don't need a "canon" -- I don't believe they own the book publishing rights anyway.
 
What is star trek canon and where is the authorative reference?

What is Star Trek canon?

Everything on screen. yup, even the inconsistencies created from TOS onwards.

Where is the authoritative reference?

Paramount Studios
5555 Melrose Ave
Hollywood, CA. 90038
 
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